Crosman boxed pellets - first impressions

[nervoustrigger]

Hi Bullit, yes I intend to do that now that I have some better data.  I should have mentioned it.

[GunnerAl]

I've been using .177 CP Lites in a "few" of my rifles now for only about 2+ years now. I have only ever bought them in boxed lots. The CP Lites have quite impressed me in I think, any .177 calibre rifle I have tried them in on average. However I have one or two rifles that have already proven themselves with other pellets, so I can't justify changing,, you know, the old "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" thing. Then comes the .22 Premiers, again boxed lots of 625's only... Same thing, I have tried them in just about all my .22's and each and every time, they have almost totally impresses me. Sure you get the occasional flier or times that groups just don't form that well but most times this is probably more down to me than the rifle because the next time out, same rifle, they perform well, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's happening here...

I just bought a couple more boxes of .177 Lites the other day and I always check any production markings on the underside of the boxes before buying them, and this time I noticed there were a date stamped instead of like the last lot I bought maybe a year or more ago which I'm sure had a code and a die number on them...

It was guys in GTA who recommended CP's in either calibre and I have never regretted buying and using them...

[vigilandy]

Results of measuring the heads of 20 samples of the boxed .177 Ultra Magnums:

There was an extreme spread of 0.005" (0.13mm) which is very similar to that of the pellets in the tins.  Standard deviation is 0.0011".  None of the pellets measured had the gross mold flashing issue (i.e. was not deliberately selecting the worst pellets).

Such a wide variation is extremely disappointing for pellets supposedly from the same die.  The box is marked Die J, Oct 01, 2013 for anyone wondering.

I'm pretty sure that I have three boxes from the same die and approx date.   I've  only opened one.   I didn't notice any damaged pellets.  My QB79 loves the boxed pellets.  Keep in mind I don't shoot groups though.  Minute of walnut at  20-25 yards.   I will take some measurements this weekend to compare with your numbers.  I'll also check the 10.5gr domes I have. 

[56S]

After about 300 shots I found a deformed skirt on one pellet.  Still shot just fine.  My biggest concern is that these shoot so good I will have shot all 10,000 of them before Spring!

[nervoustrigger]

Well, I feel vindicated.  I shot a few groups with pellets straight from the box and then sorted through a pile with calipers until finding 5 that measured 0.178" (4.52mm) and shot those.  The unsorted pellets gave an average of about 0.5" at 25 yards.  The group with sorted pellets measured 0.155". 

I know I should sort out another 5 but the first ones took forever and I'm getting cross-eyed.

[Scott Endler]

Are most of the heads less than 4.52? I wonder if it would be possible to  take a small cake pan or piece of stock and drill holes all along one edge to act as a go/ nogo gauge for the heads. Toss in 10 or so pellets at a time and shake them down to the holes to see which ones  fall through, which ones get just the head through, and which ones just tip up and lay on top of the holes.

[nced]

Are most of the heads less than 4.52? I wonder if it would be possible to  take a small cake pan or piece of stock and drill holes all along one edge to act as a go/ nogo gauge for the heads. Toss in 10 or so pellets at a time and shake them down to the holes to see which ones  fall through, which ones get just the head through, and which ones just tip up and lay on top of the holes.

LOL.......After noticing a LOT of pellet fit variation with H&N FTTs I did some pellet head measuring. My measurement procedure was to slowly close the dial caliper on the head of the pellet until I could just lift the pellet from the desk top. I positioned the pellets in the same position in the caliper and at the same location on the formica surface.



Here are the head sizes of H&N FTTs from the last 5 tins I bought. I had one tin of labelled 4.50s and 4 tins labelled 4.52s..........




I did find that the pellets sorted according to head size fit the leade of the barrel consistently which was the goal of the measuring!

Another interesting thing was when I measured "Die D" Crosman Premier light pellets using the same method. Out of 10 CPLs measured 8 measured exactly .177 and two measured .1765. LOL, seems that the CPs I measured are indeed considerably more consistent that the H&N FTTs.

[Scott Endler]

You got me curious so I sat down and measured the heads of all the pellets I had. The Crosman Brown Box .177 were the largest and most consistent. I hope my Challenger groups them well as they are also the cheapest. 20 of them averaged 7.975 grains on my powder scale.
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[Silverhawk]

When Crosman replaced my SS they also sent a box of the Heavies with a note that they were better for accuracy.  I consistently shot rats at a measured 20 yds over bait and off a rest under a porch light at night.  They worked great and front on head shots were no problem.

[vigilandy]

Finally  got some new batteries for my calipers.  Here's my numbers.  Boxed 7.9gr CP domes.

4.55
4.56
4.51
4.55
4.56
4.52
4.56
4.56
4.55
4.53

Average: 4.545

This was a random  selection from the box.  7 of 10 within 0.01mm.   Other three off by a bit more.  Good or bad?  Never measured my pellets before!

[outdoorguy]

I know that this is very unscientific, but as a neophite it is also very reasuring. I purchased my very first springer a Crosman Venom not knowing what to expect. I have dabbled in .22 bench rest, but air rifles are a foreign animal. After cleaning and breaking it in per instructions I broke open a box of .22 Crosman Priemer 14.3 domed pellets. Firing at 5meters, the chosen distance for a family league weekly postal/text competition, after sighting in I fired 5 pellets of the above. The result, a round hole approximating a .30 cal round and measuring .155 center to center. This is great confidence builder. Unfortunatly the league shooting is offhand. I will probably never see the equal, but am happy with the potential.
outdoorguy

[airgunwarriors]

Really great pellet sorting information, glad I came across this thread.

Al.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  It would take me several weeks of nonstop measuring the 12,000 or so pellets I have so I'll just opt for the ones that give the best results out of the box or tin and accept the flyers as mostly my bad and an occasional act of God

[mista meener]

For shooting at just 10 meters I have found the wal mart cphp, premier competition, and destroyer pellet work great and they are cheap. All my rifles shoot at least one or more into a ragged hole. I think after 10 meters the more costly ones are needed

[stonykill]

  now I feel like I need to break out the calipers or a mic and start measuring and sorting.

    I buy the boxed heavy domes. I get a few fliers now and again. Sometimes I know it's me. Sometimes not. Seems like the thing to do next time it's 2am and I can't fall back to sleep. Measure pellets.

[airgunwarriors]

Seems it would be worth investing in a affordable caliper and scale.

Fortunately, my barrel very much likes the .22 Caliber 18.1-grain JSB Match Diabolo Exact Jumbo Heavies!

As great a pellet that the JSB 18.1-grain pellets are, there are still bound to be some bad ones that will need to be tossed to the side.

Any recommendations on the type of scale that is "affordable" that I should use, would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

AGW.

[Scott Endler]

I'm getting good groups with the Crosman Brown Box Premier pellets out of my Challenger.
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[airgunwarriors]

I'm getting good groups with the Crosman Brown Box Premier pellets out of my Challenger.
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I'd say so!

As I mentioned before, my AR really likes the JSB 18.1-grain pellets, but it also like the lighter 14.3-grain CPHP and Domed. I prefer domes, so I will more than likely purchase the boxed version of the crosman 14.3-grain domed pellets.

Al.

[DavidS]

Wow.  I never measure my Crosman pellets.     Though I do measure my Daisy and Winchester pellets and they are better than that.    Actually for a low cost pellet the Daisy pellets are great, and with pretty consistent head size, they are just soft so you need to watch for bent skirts.

[nervoustrigger]

Granted I've only bought Daisy pellets once but the head sizes were all over the place, trending undersized.  They shotgunned badly in 3 rifles.  It was a 4-type sampler in .177 cal.

Over time, my experience has indicated the magic pellet for a given rifle will be either a JSB, an Air Arms, or an H&N...with the probability being in that descending order. 

I've heard some good things value-wise on the Winchesters so I may try them sometime but I am once-and-done with Daisy pellets, and I have suspended purchases of Crosman at least until they demonstrate some general improvements in their QC.

I am one cheap SOB but, as the saying goes, only accurate guns are interesting.  By extension, inaccurate pellets are uninteresting.  I'm just not into shooting cans; I want to drill small holes in paper so I can then confidently put the pellet in the fusebox of small game and pest species.  To me, missing a single pest or, worse, wounding an animal isn't worth the price difference between an $8 tin of Crosman's versus a $14 tin of JSB's.  It's the allure of accuracy on the cheap that keeps me coming back to the inexpensive ones.  Just seems like it averages out to be more economical to spend a little extra on the better brands when I look at all the partial tins of lesser pellets collecting dust on my shelf.

Oops, sorry for the soapbox speech, got a little carried away there!