XS60C PCP Repeater project

[stalwart]

I had some nylon 6-32 cap screws handy, and tried something I figured wouldn't be too hard. I partially tapped the holes (tapered) so the screws would jam quite solidly just before coming even with the ID, then snipped the heads off. Finished on the lathe.

I used 6 to test, and it works. Feels pretty good. I'm going to try a couple more, for fun, on the next one... you could make this thing bristle with them, if you liked.

Cost pennies. 

[RMM]

I had some nylon 6-32 cap screws handy, and tried something I figured wouldn't be too hard. I partially tapped the holes (tapered) so the screws would jam quite solidly just before coming even with the ID, then snipped the heads off. Finished on the lathe.

I used 6 to test, and it works. Feels pretty good. I'm going to try a couple more, for fun, on the next one... you could make this thing bristle with them, if you liked.

Cost pennies. 

"dang" you stalwart!!  Your adding so much to my list of stuff to do I'll never get these rifles together!!  LOL!!!!

I have to rework my Bobcat poppet (I did the valve myself folks)), it ain't holding air. I'd misplaced the package with PBT that rewinder sent me but I found it today and will be turning some new poppets out of that.

Signed, Having Fun in Illinois.   

[moorepower]

As simple as the bolt is, you could make a larger O.D. bolt, if the bolt hole in the receiver is round.

[stalwart]

I had some nylon 6-32 cap screws handy, and tried something I figured wouldn't be too hard. I partially tapped the holes (tapered) so the screws would jam quite solidly just before coming even with the ID, then snipped the heads off. Finished on the lathe.

I used 6 to test, and it works. Feels pretty good. I'm going to try a couple more, for fun, on the next one... you could make this thing bristle with them, if you liked.

Cost pennies. 

"dang" you stalwart!!  Your adding so much to my list of stuff to do I'll never get these rifles together!!  LOL!!!!

Signed, Having Fun in Illinois.   

Dear Having Fun in Illinois,

It gets worse. We are so far before the apex of the rifle's developmental curve that it can't even be seen from here. Stay tuned (or, run!).

Ann Landers

As simple as the bolt is, you could make a larger O.D. bolt, if the bolt hole in the receiver is round.

Oh yeah. But, where's the fun in that? 

It'll happen... but as it takes more time, it'll cost more. As these early experiments (everyone's) will show, the guns can be successfully taken quite seriously... and custom bolts will not seem so overpriced. I fully expect to see guys producing quality hunters that are stout enough to affix a bayonet to, yet agile, starting very soon.

[Gertrude]

Dang Stalwart,
My mind is turning to mush with pages and pages and threads and threads of reading and rereading about these guns.   
 I'm beginning to wonder if I am retaining any of it    .
 I'm still waiting for my .22 to arrive, (UPS delivery has now been "updated" to tomorrow, hopefully).

 It will be quite a while before I can really do much to the rifle in the way of mods, once it does get here. Yeah, the budget is really that tight, and I won't be able to justify spending much on it for a while... so basically "stock it will stay" for a while.

 So, for those of us new FDPCP owners who might be in similar situations, what would be your recommendations on the order of things to address straight out of the box ?

here's what I'm figuring will happen when it gets here,
1- open box
2- feel chesher cat smile
3- pick up rifle
4- wipe off drool
5- throughly clean barrel
6- then look like Ralphie pointing it at everything in sight, and imagining myself taking out Black Bart and his buddies

Since it will be here for at least a week or two before I will be able to take it out to go shooting,
 and I'll probably take it apart just to see how it's put together,

 What would you suggest be the order of things to inspect and address ?
 

[RMM]

Dear Having Fun in Illinois,

It gets worse. We are so far before the apex of the rifle's developmental curve that it can't even be seen from here. Stay tuned (or, run!).

Ann Landers

Dear Ann,

I'm tingling <snicker snicker> with anticipation in what's around the corner in this rifle's leaps and bounds development. With that said I so choose to run towards, not away, then embrace this crazy little thing we call airgun fun.
 
Yours truly,
Having Fun in Illinois.

P.S. Hold my drink and watch this!!   

[avator]

Dang Stalwart,
My mind is turning to mush with pages and pages and threads and threads of reading and rereading about these guns.   
 I'm beginning to wonder if I am retaining any of it    .
 I'm still waiting for my .22 to arrive, (UPS delivery has now been "updated" to tomorrow, hopefully).

 It will be quite a while before I can really do much to the rifle in the way of mods, once it does get here. Yeah, the budget is really that tight, and I won't be able to justify spending much on it for a while... so basically "stock it will stay" for a while.

 So, for those of us new FDPCP owners who might be in similar situations, what would be your recommendations on the order of things to address straight out of the box ?

here's what I'm figuring will happen when it gets here,
1- open box
2- feel chesher cat smile
3- pick up rifle
4- wipe off drool
5- throughly clean barrel
6- then look like Ralphie pointing it at everything in sight, and imagining myself taking out Black Bart and his buddies

Since it will be here for at least a week or two before I will be able to take it out to go shooting,
 and I'll probably take it apart just to see how it's put together,

 What would you suggest be the order of things to inspect and address ?
 

Hi Ron,
 I have 3 of them and this is basically all I've done and all I'm going to do.
Clean that barrel thoroughly.
Check for a burr inside around the transfer port hole.
Polish the contact point on the trigger seer and add just a touch of moly.
Snip 2 coils off of the trigger spring. Adjust the trigger screw so it makes about 3/16 contact with the seer. (or to your liking)
While you have the bolt out, get rid of the leftovers from the safety (a small spring, a half moon looking thing on a post and a set screw/stop up thru the bottom of the bolt) this has no use and it will jam up your gun if it becomes loose. These are located in the groove on the bolt. If you look at the picture above of the bolt that Stalwart posted, you will see the small hole in the bolt that this stop screw goes in. Moly the bolt.
Put a small nylon shim between the barrel band and the barrel where the stock screw goes in. This will keep the barrel from making contact with the tube/fill cap.
Polish all around the hammer and add a bit of moly.
Drop 3 #113 buna O-rings down the back of the tube before you put the hammer back in. (bstaley mod)
If you remove the rear sight, cut or grind 3/16 inch off of the screws and put them back in. You will see the flats on the barrel when you have it out. the screws help hold it in and straight. Also, inspect the 3 O-rings on the barrel.
Set your power adjuster to about 1 1/2 turns in from all the way out as a starting point for shot count, flat bell curve and power.
Congratulations... you just spent $1.50 for 3 O-rings and a great tune.

[stalwart]

AFAIC, if you add Ron's 6 points to Bill's checklist... you can't go wrong! My Boxer loves the part where I "shoot" up the place (full auto) when I pull a gun out of the box... he knows we're headed to the shop, and he loves it there. He's already nearly as goofy as I am (and I've had a lot more practice).

"Hold my drink and watch this!!   "  LOL!! Famous last words... on a quiet night, an ER staff can hear them for miles.

[Fwawa20]

Whoa guys I have a lot of reading ahead of me. My x60c has been down for while had to send it back to mike for surgery... Well looks like I'll get back to you when I knock these 17 pg's out! Wish me luck

[Gertrude]

Bill,
thanks for all the tips on the "Budget tune".

It arrived yesterday, and I went down my list.
 Cleaned the barrel, wiped up drool, checked for pressure (came w/550ish psi), brought it up to 1500,
 (I will let it sit a day or two and re-check for leaks),
 and am now basically stuck on my #6 

I may possibly start on your "things to do" list later today or tonight.

Forgive me if this is me just being ignorant, ... and I'm certainly not trying to start a "pro HDD vs. con HDD" argument here.
 but it has been my understanding that the "BStaley mod" only benefits guns that are not properly tuned.

 (or at least that seems to be the more common opinion, amongst some of the more experienced PCP tuners here).

 My Mrod does not have the Bstaley mod, due to it was tuned by Timmymac since new.
 ( he is a pretty vocal opponent to all HDD type devices).

So I guess my question is,.... "Why would the XS60C be any different ?"

[moorepower]

The M-Rod, has spring tension, a velocity screw, and hammer adjustment screw. An XS60 has an adjustable spring. Is it possible tuners don't like it, because anyone can make an air rifle shoot with the O-Rings, instead of sending them to a tuner and paying $$$$$$ to "tune" it? I am going with the O-Rings and possibly restricting the transfer port, because I want instant gratification! If it had a larger tank, I would regulate, like I did to my marauder, but I don't want to loose air space in the tank.

[avator]

And remember, you paid $100 for a tinkerer's gun, nothing more... nothing less. Some were lucky enough to get an awesome shooter right out of the box. Some were not but, with very little effort, they all seem to end up working well. We are all here to help each other. If someone has one that is unsatisfactory, maybe the right questions weren't asked of the right people. I still have one that likes to 'BUURRRP' towards the end of the shot string but, I haven't done all I can to it yet. I have a new spring, I have a delrin spacer, just not installed yet.  I haven't polished the hammer yet. I also have a .177 barrel that I would miss if I shot myself in the head with but, I haven't polished the crown and I haven't checked the tranfer port for a burr. Gotta save some things for a rainy day.

[Gertrude]

The M-Rod, has spring tension, a velocity screw, and hammer adjustment screw. An XS60 has an adjustable spring. Is it possible tuners don't like it, because anyone can make an air rifle shoot with the O-Rings, instead of sending them to a tuner and paying $$$$$$ to "tune" it? I am going with the O-Rings and possibly restricting the transfer port, because I want instant gratification! If it had a larger tank, I would regulate, like I did to my marauder, but I don't want to loose air space in the tank.

Funny,... I was thinking it might be due to not having all the same adjustability of a higher quality gun.

And remember, you paid $100 for a tinkerer's gun, nothing more... nothing less. Some were lucky enough to get an awesome shooter right out of the box. Some were not but, with very little effort, they all seem to end up working well. We are all here to help each other.

Exactly right you are Bill,

 And that is where the beauty of these guns is, and why it has fueled the frenzy that it has, amongst us.
 I mean really,... just look at some of the guys who are singing it's praises ! We've got guys here who have well over $10k wrapped up in their collections, but yet they are still "tickled pink' with this little beater's performance !
Think about it,.. just how funny and ironic is that ? LOL!

I fully agree it is what it is,... nothing more, nothing less.
 It is a $100 project/tinker toy, that has a pretty darned impressive track record already... and comes with some unique benefits that we dont normally have with our more expensive rifles.
 I bought this rifle for a few reasons.
 I wanted a decent shooting PCP that I won't be so protective of, or worried about tossing it in the truck, dragging it around, or it getting dings and scratches. I got it to be my "beater gun" 
 It operates at a much lower max. pressure than most, so that means those of us with big SCBA tanks, can now use the "bottom half" of our tanks and keep right on shooting.
 By what the calculators indicate, This is to the tune of 18-19 fills for me,... now how cool is that ? ! ? !
 No need to run off to the refill facility as quickly.
 How could we go wrong ?

 All this, and it is still quite tunable, and modifiable ? Heck Yeah ! I kinda have an itch to crank this little dude up to it's max power, forget about a high shot count, see what it will do and where it will zero with the big Skenko Newboy Seniors at 28 gr., and taking it to the goat farm to be my "Whama-Bamma-Skull-Slamma"  on the GS's there. 
 I wanna see if it will just Knock their Noggins clean off ! haha.

 Thank you so much for all your help and suggestions. I feel like I'm playing "Catch-up" with everyone here, haha.
 I will follow your lead, and do the Bstaley as suggested, and all the other tips too.
 I've not taken it apart yet, but I did do a little tinkering.
 I did the shim under the barrel band like you said to stop the barrel from riding the fill cap, removed the rear sights and borrowed the 3-9X40 Simmons from my little pumper, drilled and mounted studs for my extra bipod, added a sling....




And guess what I discovered when I drilled the rear stud 
 The rear of the stock is hollow !
 I don't think I've read anywhere about that or seen it mentioned.




It sure would be neat if someone was to come up with a little "flap open" sidedoor, or something like the patch holder doors on the old muzzle loader Kentucky rifles !... That little compartment just might be a neat place to store some pellets.
 AWwww, the wandering mind and ramblings of a Tinkerererer !     

[avator]

Well will ya lookie there. I even have an extra stock I am going to modify to put an on-the-fly power adjuster on. I started sanding the other end to see what the wood looked like but, I've not taken the butt pad off yet. Of all the mods and tinkering on this thread with this gun and I never knew that was there. You are absolutely correct, a perfect stash compartment. Some kind of hinge and click closer.... hmmmmm

[Big Bore Bart]

   A military steel buttplate will do the trick.     Most of the older rifles had a trapdoor in the butt for the cleaning and oiling supplies.  The M1 Garand was the first to come to mind.  It actually may be just the ticket.

[StevenG]

@avator, you will start a thread on that when you get it going right?

Some sort of flap would be an awesome idea, metal plate sounds good, but not as cool.

[RMM]

I received my Bobcat a week ago but the Honey-do's got in the way of my airgun fun.   But I learned a long time ago from my grandfather and father never make the cook unhappy.   

First and foremost the overall work is of an artisan who pays great attention to detail, a great job stalwart.  All machining, fit and finish is of the highest quality and everything works perfect. 

The 7/16" Prod magazine retention button at the breech end of the barrel is concentric ,with the bore and not the barrel O.D. and the Prod magazine fits perfect on the button and in the machined slot in the receiver.  The new chamber needs no attention and the chamber sports an internal o-ring at its entrance which seals perfect with the bolt (no o-ring on the bolt on the Bobcat folks) with no pellet hangups upon chambering.    Have I mentioned the Bobcat is perfect?   

This is just a preliminary review, or Cliff Notes of Bobcat, as more accolades are deserving for this ingenious little repeater that can.  Get on board folks because this is well worth the money. 

I also received the Slickery Kit which includes Teflon coated bolt(s) and striker that float effortlessly in the receiver.  Yes I said two (2) bolts which were sent for me to test, one a probe (now installed) and one a flow through which I will test once I get a viable tune on my end.  If you skip back through this thread you'll see pics of these bolts, and the rest of the Bobcat build, and I can assure you it's art with utilitarian purpose in metal. 

I'm glad I got on board, if you haven't you should.   

[stalwart]

Thank you for the kind words Mike! I'm glad you like it enough to put some time into it... there is so much more that can be done.

I have been looking into striker travel, and it looks like I can double it over stock. Depending on the trigger group position, they come stock with ~13mm max... There is room to go up to 30mm (maybe 32 with extended handle slot), with elongated slots and a custom striker. It looks like there is no need for this, with a typical .22... turning them down seems to be the norm... but I want to find out how much force we can generate without stretching these, for larger calibers. Mr. Stearne has been very informative, with the usual result: Another tool/supplies order. 

Been doing tank homework, and I'm coming to the conclusion that he has the right idea for small caliber hunters: Separate refill tank as opposed to carrying all the air on the gun. The thing, as I've stated, I like best about this design is it's agility. Although I can no longer seriously hunt, I still love guns meant just for it.

[RMM]

Thank you for the kind words Mike! I'm glad you like it enough to put some time into it... there is so much more that can be done.

I have been looking into striker travel, and it looks like I can double it over stock. Depending on the trigger group position, they come stock with ~13mm max... There is room to go up to 30mm (maybe 32 with extended handle slot), with elongated slots and a custom striker. It looks like there is no need for this, with a typical .22... turning them down seems to be the norm... but I want to find out how much force we can generate without stretching these, for larger calibers. Mr. Stearne has been very informative, with the usual result: Another tool/supplies order. 

Been doing tank homework, and I'm coming to the conclusion that he has the right idea for small caliber hunters: Separate refill tank as opposed to carrying all the air on the gun. The thing, as I've stated, I like best about this design is it's agility. Although I can no longer seriously hunt, I still love guns meant just for it.

You're very much welcome and deserving of the accolades.  A repeater under $250 (FDPCP, Bobcat mod and a couple of Prod mags) is unbeatable. 

I also applaud the collaboration between you and Bob in the evolution of the FDPCP.  And to Mike Melick kudos in offering this little PCP that can.

I've started a thread requesting advice on tuning my Bobcat as she's breathin heavy but workin hard, very hard, she's a beast.   http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=67888.new;topicseen#new 

I have to agree with the limitations of the onboard air.  I agree so much I've already put together a Guerilla 22ci tank, Ninja 1500 psi reg and whipped up a filler whip  , all which can go into a back pack for refills in the field. 

[Gertrude]

I would like to see your guerilla tank setup. Please share a pic with details and costs.
thanks