XS60C PCP Repeater project

[Kailua]

I need to look a little closer but, I've thought about just cutting the stock back above the power setting adjustment and adding a lever to the locking nut so that left would be loose, and right would be tight. Then just drilling a hole to insert a small screw driver to adjust the screw. I don't want to chop it up any more that ness. Mike has some stocks available, I might have to grab one. Maybe even make a wood plug for the hole.

That's a good thought.  Or how about drilling a hole big enough for a deep socket so you can run your screw driver through the middle.  May need a vise grip or plier grip the socket.  Oops just took a look maybe too long a hole with the contour of the stock.

Guys, is there any reason why a tube couldn't be made that would extend into the receiver, around a reduced OD valve, and basically act as the entire pressure container? The receiver could easily be bored out a bit, and if the tube was bonded to it, it would only have to do what a typical breech does.

I'm trying to figure out how to get both more volume and pressure. I have an idea that would (maybe) allow a tank block offset enough to work with the close tolerances the integrated receiver creates, and take the worry out of having that threaded joint.

Crazy?

Edit: It's going to be easier than I thought. There is plenty of room to set 7/8" (3/4" ID) DOM steel tube into the receiver without cutting it down. I've read here this stuff is good for 6K (and I have a bunch of it), so I should have quite a margin to work with... and stock valves will slide right in.

Started a mandrel, but will need a longer boring bar. It's always something!

 

Maybe work the idea the opposite way and weld on a aluminum extention.

[rsterne]

Welding, aluminum, and pressure vessel.... Somehow I wouldn't want to be in the same room.... but then that's just me....

Bob

[avator]

Looking at the setup, there is not enough clearance for a socket on the locking nut at the lower side where the bolt for the trigger group is. A lever would need to be welded to the correct flat on the nut. I have a few options. I have a mig welder, JB weld and 2 part propoxy. I think I can make this idea work. Gonna order a stock from Mike. Basically, I would like my power adjustment to flexible for pellet weight for different applications. And if I accidently put 1700 psi in my gun, I would like to screw the adjuster all the way in and work down to a usable pressure as opposed to firing the gun 243 times (exageration)

[stalwart]

Guys, I know a lot more than I did a week ago, and have come up with something I hope you think is special:

It looks like my initial guess (and price) on my conversions is close enough that what I've sold and quoted them for will have to stand. To the average guy, that figure may seem high, but to the average shop owner it can all be explained in 1 word: California.

However... I have decided to produce a special edition conversion specifically for the guy who loves to custom finish. I'm going to call it the "Bobcat", in recognition of a display of real class I have recently seen. 

Here's the deal:

10% will go to GTA, as a donation toward operating costs.

The conversion will have a fixed 20" .22 barrel (port size determined by the buyer), fit the Prod magazine (not included), and will not be powder coated. I will deburr to a "shop safe" level, and suggest the buyer grab a Scotchbrite pad, a beverage, and a sunny spot in which to massage the coating to smoothness before paint. Or maybe bead blast?

These will be done according to the most cost effective scheduling I can arrange here. Patience may be required. Payment is Paypal only. This price is for converting parts only... I can tear down and re-assemble rifles at additional cost.

I will do 20 of these conversions. That's it... that's all.

[rsterne]

I'm going to call it the "Bobcat",

I just about sprayed coffee all over my keyboard this morning when I read this, and here's why.... Yesterday we made our weekly shopping trip to Princeton (12 miles) and since we had one of the prettiest days I've ever seen here in the mountains of south-central BC we took the camera and got some spectacular shots, like the one below.... On the way home, we saw a Bobcat on the side of the road and since we had the camera, and we rarely see one, let alone having a camera with us, I pulled over to get a photo.... Wait!, it gets better!.... The snowplow had graded the road, pushing the snow right across the ditch, filling it up, so when I pulled over towards (what I thought was) the snowbank, I of course drove the right hand wheels of my car into the ditch, where they promptly sunk to the axles, leaving us stuck on the roadside halfway home.... I hitched a ride back home with a dump truck, roused my neighbour across the lane, loaded up his 4WD with ropes, chains and shovels and went back to dig and pull us back onto the road.... Everything went fine, no damage to the car, in fact the only damage was to my ego.... Then this morning I find out my version of the repeater has been dubbed the Bobcat so now I'll NEVER be able to forget this incident, as each time I see my son's FD-PCP Repeater it will remind me !!!



Seriously, stalwart, it was a hoot working on this conversion, and I'm flattered with the name.... Donating $10 per conversion to the GTA is a wonderful way to show our appreciation for such a great place to share by "paying it forward".... and my compliments and gratitude to you for that.... I never did get the photo of the Bobcat though, so this one will have to do....



Bob

[silent_airman]

You guys are amazing. All I know about airguns is put a CO2 in, load a pellet, aim, and shoot. Anything beyond that to me is black magic. I can barely turn a screw lol. Not mechanically inclined enough to even come close to doing what you guys do with apparent ease. So what are you guys, engineers or something?

The Bobcat is really cool! 

[avator]

I'm going to call it the "Bobcat",

I just about sprayed coffee all over my keyboard this morning when I read this, and here's why.... Yesterday we made our weekly shopping trip to Princeton (12 miles) and since we had one of the prettiest days I've ever seen here in the mountains of south-central BC we took the camera and got some spectacular shots, like the one below.... On the way home, we saw a Bobcat on the side of the road and since we had the camera, and we rarely see one, let alone having a camera with us, I pulled over to get a photo.... Wait!, it gets better!.... The snowplow had graded the road, pushing the snow right across the ditch, filling it up, so when I pulled over towards (what I thought was) the snowbank, I of course drove the right hand wheels of my car into the ditch, where they promptly sunk to the axles, leaving us stuck on the roadside halfway home.... I hitched a ride back home with a dump truck, roused my neighbour across the lane, loaded up his 4WD with ropes, chains and shovels and went back to dig and pull us back onto the road.... Everything went fine, no damage to the car, in fact the only damage was to my ego.... Then this morning I find out my version of the repeater has been dubbed the Bobcat so now I'll NEVER be able to forget this incident, as each time I see my son's FD-PCP Repeater it will remind me !!!



Seriously, stalwart, it was a hoot working on this conversion, and I'm flattered with the name.... Donating $10 per conversion to the GTA is a wonderful way to show our appreciation for such a great place to share by "paying it forward".... and my compliments and gratitude to you for that.... I never did get the photo of the Bobcat though, so this one will have to do....



Bob

Man, you REALLY got me stuck here ! I don't know which picture I like more.
Thanks for both tho.
Bill

[stalwart]

A more superstitious person might take this coincidence as a good sign. 

That pic makes me homesick for a place I haven't seen for decades. It's not the snow... just the memory of the marrow cleansing air makes the stuff I'm breathing here unsatisfactory at best.

Bob, let's be blunt. Given my skill level and tooling, there is no way I can ever pay back the expert help I've been freely given by many here. My only option to express my gratitude, in a tangible way, is to pay it forward.

[Big Bore Bart]

A more superstitious person might take this coincidence as a good sign. 

That pic makes me homesick for a place I haven't seen for decades. It's not the snow... just the memory of the marrow cleansing air makes the stuff I'm breathing here unsatisfactory at best.

Bob, let's be blunt. Given my skill level and tooling, there is no way I can ever pay back the expert help I've been freely given by many here. My only option to express my gratitude, in a tangible way, is to pay it forward.

    Eric,, Isn't that what life is about.

   Bob,, Thank you for the lovely view.... And the information that you freely share.

[stalwart]

Indeed, Bart! Indeed.

Been trying for days to get some decent powder shot. Our drought picked a "good" time to take a break... humidity can effect the way powder lays on. I think it's as much the electrostatic changes as anything. Dry weather just allows a better looking finish.

Got a break this afternoon, for a bit (clouds are rolling in) and am just now pulling some rather pretty pieces out of the oven. Nice when the weather and the shop time line up... even for a bit.

Happy guy here... surrounded by some VERY happy ranchers.  It's been a great winter for AG... but, to be fair, it is their turn now. Price hay, and you'll know why many of CAs cows are headed to Texas... rather shocking numbers, at least to me.

[rsterne]

Something for you guys to consider.... If you tether an FD-PCP or an XS-60C to a paintball tank with an 800-850 psi output you will get tons of shots with better performance than CO2.... It only takes about 700 psi of HPA to equal CO2 velocities.... The only thing to remember is that you can (and should) back out the power adjuster to conserve air.... All regulated guns will show a trend like the one below if you graph velocity vs. hammer spring preload....



Once you have enough hammer strike for the pressure you are running, adding more doesn't increase the velocity, it just wastes air (the plateau above).... You want to back out the preload until you JUST notice the velocity dropping and operater the gun on the "knee" of the power curve (4-5 turns out above).... Not only will you get 99% of the maximum power at that pressure, and more shots, you will end up with a much quieter report as well....

Can you imagine how much fun this would be with the repeater.... how consistent the velocity (and accuracy) would be.... and how quickly you could go through pellets?.... *grin*

Bob

[stalwart]

Bob, I have always liked your graphs. The best part, lately? I think I'm starting to understand them!  I sure like what this one shows.

Guys, if my PM box is full, please send inquiries straight through email.

A couple things about the Bobcat runs: First, payment puts you in line to be served at your convenience... you do NOT have to rush your parts here to keep your place in line. I much prefer you send guns/parts that you already know are worth the conversion. We have time to do this right... let's do just that.

Second, the barrels will be bonded using a quality high (working) temp epoxy. This will allow you to do powder coating... or any other finish that doesn't exceed 450F during cure. This leaves you a ton of good finish options... and, if you pull off something you are proud of, don't hesitate to post pics here. I'd love to see 'em, and bet I'm not alone.

[silent_airman]

Bob, I have always liked your graphs. The best part, lately? I think I'm starting to understand them!  I sure like what this one shows.

Guys, if my PM box is full, please send inquiries straight through email.

A couple things about the Bobcat runs: First, payment puts you in line to be served at your convenience... you do NOT have to rush your parts here to keep your place in line. I much prefer you send guns/parts that you already know are worth the conversion. We have time to do this right... let's do just that.

Second, the barrels will be bonded using a quality high (working) temp epoxy. This will allow you to do powder coating... or any other finish that doesn't exceed 450F during cure. This leaves you a ton of good finish options... and, if you pull off something you are proud of, don't hesitate to post pics here. I'd love to see 'em, and bet I'm not alone.

If you can understand these graphs, then there is no hope for you to return to normal life with the rest of us morons!

I am guessing that powder coating involves more equipment and know how than I possess?

[codytwoeyes]

It really be nice if you could post pictures of it a step by step of what you used and how you did it. your wright up is good but for me and I think for many of us I need to see it done to understand. A vid would tops. something for you to think about.

[rsterne]

Not so sure that is something you should ask for when this is now a commercially available product.... just sayin'.... If you want a general idea, check out my FD-PCP thread where I installed a magazine.... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62302.0

Bob

[stalwart]

Guys, I have to thank you for the response to the Bobcat offering. It looks like the last of the supplies needed for the runs will be in just before your parts start to arrive... gotta love that! 

Also, to anyone who is contemplating going for removable barrels, there is something else to consider here:

The XS60C barrels range from almost concentric, to not even close. I cut 1 to be removable (on center), and there was not enough barrel left to do it.... 1 side was not even touched by the bit. It worked fine for a fixed set up, but wouldn't work as removable. The offset wasn't huge, but as the mags work best when perfectly aligned, I have to cut them on center.

If you want a nice dual caliber set up, I recommend getting quality barrel blanks.

Bob, is there any reason a customer would want a port smaller than stock? Your tuning posts have shown us that a larger port isn't in everyone's best interest... would anyone want one smaller?

[codytwoeyes]

Guys, I had to show this off...

I really like the way the stock set up looks, until you hang a Fosters off it... so, I modded it to hide the fitting. Just fits.

Clean, no?

Nice were did you get the end  cap from/

[rsterne]

You can probably still get 20+ FPE with a 7/64" barrel port (0.109"), the gun breathes that well.... However, it doesn't seem to increase the shot count as much as it does on a Disco, for example.... I modded my ports larger and got 32+ FPE with 18 gr. JSBs, but only 7 shots.... When I then fitted a 0.104" barrel port restrictor it dropped to 24 FPE and went back up to 9 shots.... However, that was about what I started with.... I never succeeded in getting the sweet spot past about 400 psi (1500 down to 1100) for a 9 shot string at 4% ES.... except with the bstaley O-ring buffer....

Bob

[stalwart]

One of these is not like the others...

The .25 project begins. 

The cap comes on the stockers.

[Kailua]

Those mag receivers look great.  I was wondering if anyone would be interested in a single shot loader?  Loading pellets with a scope can be kind of tricky.