The .177 for hunting ?

[jrhunter]

I am having a debate with my friend that goes hunting with me about the .177 for hunting. He says its better because it has a flatter trajectory and they are more available and that the pellets are more common. But the .177 can't retain energy well, and most of its pellets are not even for hunting. Now, we are comparing it to a .22 since I use the .22 and he uses a .177. I said that the .22 almost always has a tiny bit of more ME than the same gun in .177 and that the pellets are heavier and they make a larger wound channel and they retain energy more than the .177 and most of it's pellets are for hunting. But he says that it does not have a good trajectory vs the .177 and that it goes slower than the .177 and the pellets are not as common as the .177 is. What do you think ? .177 or .22 ?

[Bullit]

I use the .177 HEAVIES in my Dianas.   The FPE vs. light to medium .22 pellets isn't a big deal, when you compare the same rifle, with the same powerplant. Both have enough at 50+yds for small quarry...if you can be that accurate.
I like the .177 heavy pellet's trajectory as an advantage, especially concerning overall accuracy.
As far as damage goes...accuracy is paramount.
The .22 "scrubs" off much more of it's energy (40-50%), to break thru, versus the .177 heavy.   So after impact, the .177 can have more left to penetrate further.
For the most part, I call it a coin flip...as I found with my two models...if you're talking 2  identical rifles.  1 makes a slightly "bigger" hole. 1 can travel better.   Pls don't try to compare widely different weights of pellets for your arguement.  Keep it close!
I sold (2) .22 rifles, keeping the (2) .177 models (12fpe & 18fpe),and don't feel undergunned.  Again, accuracy with a sufficient powerplant is a bigger issue for me.   The way pellet prices are going...Well, you know that's getting expensive.  JMO

[Geoff]

Generally there is a flatter trajectory for the 177 over the 22.  I am not a hunter however would think 177 for feathers and 22 for fur.

[Airgun.Sniper]

 Here's a big debate. Ive been using .177 cal pellets for the longest hunting crows rabbits squirrel even small hogs less than 10yds. Ive gotten into .22 and I find that hunting squirrels I prefer this cal over the .177 bc squirrels are tough, even crows i prefer a .22. But considering a 12fpe .22 and a .12fpe .177 im taking the .22 any day bc it retains energy.

 I knowmy holdover and memorize my M.O.A. down to the T.

 So .22 for me, but a .177 cal is very capable and its all about shot placement

 Jay

[longislandhunter]

I've used both calibers for my small game hunting and while I personally do prefer .22 cal, especially on tough game like squirrels, the .177 is fully capable of getting the job done on small game.   I've even used .177 cal to take more than a few woodchucks and they've dropped right in there tracks.   The key with either caliber is, as we all know, shot placement which for me always means head shots being preferred.    Anyway, my hunting over the years has proven to me that either cal is very effective for small gaming.    Others opinions may of course differ 

Jeff

[Bullit]

I personally feel that for powerplants under 16fpe, that there's no real advantage in power between calibers.  Over 20fpe is where you see more larger differences.    I'm addressing springers here, but only because of effort to shoot well with one.
Take a look at these results for the .177 versus .22 in the popular RWS model 34. There are also many other brand of rifles that fall into this classification of power, the 12-14fpe range.
Hopefully they help illustrate the small differences in fpe at various ranges:
http://www.straightshooters.com/rws-model-34-.177-beech.html

[grobe1458]

I prefer .177, flatter trajectory being one thing. everything I've taken with them has never walked up to me complaining they wished I used a .22.*L*
I'd say it's personal preference. if you put the pellet where it needs to be it's game over, a .22 is just more forgiving about placement.

[AudiS4]

Since the .22 is almost twice the size of a .177, itīs pretty clear what to use for most humane kills. 95 % of air gun hunting is between 10-50 yards, then trajectory isnīt really a concern. Get .22 if you want to kills things easier, but you need to hit 10/10 at the distance you hunt. Thatīs regardless of caliber. If you canīt hit 10/10 at 30 yards, then you canīt hunt at 30 yards. That should be pretty clear to most hunters, but sadly arenīt....

[fperez0209]

What about a .20 caliber.Good hunting caliber unfortunaly not enough ammo choice.but great trajectory

[Bullit]

I hear ya buddy!   Wish the manufacturers would revive the .20, with today's good offerings.

Since the .22 is almost twice the size of a .177, itīs pretty clear what to use for most humane kills. 95 % of air gun hunting is between 10-50 yards, then trajectory isnīt really a concern. Get .22 if you want to kills things easier, but you need to hit 10/10 at the distance you hunt. Thatīs regardless of caliber. If you canīt hit 10/10 at 30 yards, then you canīt hunt at 30 yards. That should be pretty clear to most hunters, but sadly arenīt....

The .22 is NOT nearly twice of the .177... perhaps you can recalculate it to get that number straight.
Also takes same number of More power, to punch a hole, vs. the .177.
I think that in many rifle powerplants, that trajectory is very important.
As previously posted, selection goes deeper than just the diameter of the two.

[WolfyW]

2 Diana rifles, one of either caliber, 10 squirrels, 5 each. Both work.

[AudiS4]

The .22 is NOT nearly twice of the .177... perhaps you can recalculate it to get that number straight.
Also takes same number of More power, to punch a hole, vs. the .177.
[/quote]

Well sorry. Nearly is pretty much wath the real numbers show. Frontal area is 7.6 mm2 for .22 and only 5.1 mm2 for the .177. The .22 pellet is almost twice the size of a .177, as are a .25 pellet twice the size of a .22.

A .22 is pretty much twice the size of a .177. Just put the to next to each other and open your eyes. Also, the most .22 pellets of the same manufacturer is pretty much twice the weight. Example. H&N FTT .177    0,56 g/8.64 gr
.22      0,95 g/14.66 gr

You see that the .22 pellet is about twice the size of a .177 pellet. Right!

[grobe1458]

weight wise yes the difference can be twice the weight, diameter wise no, it's not twice the size.
Size
    Size is the most obvious and significant difference between .177 and .22 caliber airgun pellets. Even the difference of 0.043 inches in diameter boosts the .22 to more than 35 percent more front surface area than the .177 pellet. Size and weight together alter the projectile's ballistics.

[Bryan Heimann]

At the end of the day, it just comes down to preference.  IMHO, in a mid powered gun that's accurate with mid-weight .177 pellets, it's just kill zone size vs. trajectory and you can argue either way.  Doesn't matter if the pellet is. "Designed for hunting", the best hunting ammo are domes because they are designed for accuracy and that's what it's all about.  In more powerful guns, bigger is better because smaller, lighter projectiles are too fast to be accurate.  There is something to be said for the larger kill zone of a bigger projectile, but between .22 and .177 it really isn't enough to matter much.  Considering the flatter trajectory of .177 they are pretty equal.  At closer range, the .22 does seem to have a little more stopping power on squirrels hit in the body, but I haven't tested that theory enough to be certain of much of an advantage.

[jrhunter]

I use the .177 HEAVIES in my Dianas.   The FPE vs. light to medium .22 pellets isn't a big deal, when you compare the same rifle, with the same powerplant. Both have enough at 50+yds for small quarry...if you can be that accurate.
I like the .177 heavy pellet's trajectory as an advantage, especially concerning overall accuracy.
As far as damage goes...accuracy is paramount.
The .22 "scrubs" off much more of it's energy (40-50%), to break thru, versus the .177 heavy.   So after impact, the .177 can have more left to penetrate further.
For the most part, I call it a coin flip...as I found with my two models...if you're talking 2  identical rifles.  1 makes a slightly "bigger" hole. 1 can travel better.   Pls don't try to compare widely different weights of pellets for your arguement.  Keep it close!
I sold (2) .22 rifles, keeping the (2) .177 models (12fpe & 18fpe),and don't feel undergunned.  Again, accuracy with a sufficient powerplant is a bigger issue for me.   The way pellet prices are going...Well, you know that's getting expensive.  JMO

I guess I should have specified our " rigs ", I shoot a Hatsan 1000S .22 cal Striker with a Vortex Gas Piston using 14.3 grain domed and hollow point crosman premiers and H&N Barracudas 21.14 grains. My friend shoots a .177 Benjamin Trail NP XL and a Hatsan 125 ( talking about the Benjamin in this one ) with 10.5 grain crosman heavies and 8 grain pellets from JSB ( I think ). I take shots from 10-60 yards depending on conditions. Never lost any game never had to seriously track one. My friend shoots from 10-55 yards or so and has lost 3 good sized squirrels ( put a 10.5 grain pellet in the lungs ) one day, never found them even after 4 hours. We normally shoot squirrels and rabbits along with pest birds.

[WolfyW]

"My friend shoots from 10-55 yards or so and has lost 3 good sized squirrels"

Something to be said there. My .177 is kept to 35 and under based on results I've experienced, my brother's 350 in .22 punches holes through squirrels out at 45 yards no problem. Stay within the gun/shooter limitations and practice headshots (especially with .177) and either caliber can take game. 

[jrhunter]

"My friend shoots from 10-55 yards or so and has lost 3 good sized squirrels"

Something to be said there. My .177 is kept to 35 and under based on results I've experienced, my brother's 350 in .22 punches holes through squirrels out at 45 yards no problem. Stay within the gun/shooter limitations and practice headshots (especially with .177) and either caliber can take game. 

well he put in a GTR trigger and tested his NPXL 1500 a while and can get decent 1.2" groups at 50 yards.

[Chako]

I think its energy transfer, 22 vs penetration, 177. It could go strait trough but not much energy.

[AudiS4]

Size is the most obvious and significant difference between .177 and .22 caliber airgun pellets. Even the difference of 0.043 inches in diameter boosts the .22 to more than 35 percent more front surface area than the .177 pellet. Size and weight together alter the projectile's ballistics.

Iīm with you, but... A .22 has 50% larger front area then a .177 7.6mmē = 0.011780inē vs 5.1mmē = 0.0079050inē 7.6/5.1= 1.49 = 50% larger frontal area.

.22 is better for hunting, and we donīt choose between a 500 fps gun, because thatīs not a hunting speed to begin with. A .22 with 900 fps is a better hunter simply because of the force of the pellet. TS didnīt ask which was better of a 900 fps .177 and a 600 fps .22

A good air gun hunter, uses an air rifle with enough speed/force/accuracy to get the most humane kills. To brag with a lucky "100 yards head shot with open sights and a .177 Diana 880", is just ridiculous.

If you canīt make the same shot and kill 10/10 at the range you shoot, then you are a bad hunter

[TriggerHappyDude]

I've been reading this thread a while and here is my 2 cents:

Im from Slovenia, Europe, and we are not allowed to hunt with air rifles at all here. The main argument is that there is too much risk that the animal will not be killed humanely.
Really? yes, really.

The way i see it, its a balance of caliber and skill. I mean, we have probably all seen the youtube videos where people shoot prairie dogs with .50 cal powder rifles ...  lots of kill, need little skill.

Here is a nice pic that illustrates this balance:


In a nutshell, the larger the cal the larger the kill zone. So with a .50 cal you hit this woodchuck pretty much anywhere and its dead instantly.

If you really want to use .177 for hunting, you better have an accurate rifle and lots of skill to put that shot exactly where it needs to be, and using hollowpoints wouldn't hurt either. Larger calibers are more forgiving.

The bottom line is, the animal should not suffer because you couldn't get the right shot placement.