Help with Differences Please

[confederatemule]

Other than the scope, scope mounting system, open sights, muzzle break, and recoil pad, what are the differences between the Nitro Venom Rifle with 3-9x32 mm Scope (.177) Model » CVW1K77NP and the Vantage NP with 4x32 mm Scope (.177) Model » 30021?

Which gun is superior, in your opinion?

I would like to have the Trail NP XL 1500 (.177) Model » BT1500WNP, but, the price is way out of my reach.

Thanks for any assistance.

Mule

[Roadworthy]

Mule, I'll let someone more knowledgeable speak on similarities and differences.  From what I've heard all of the Crosman nitro piston rifles use the same power plant.  The trigger assembly is pretty much identical as well.  The barrel could be different for different models.  Look up the parts breakdown and get part numbers for the specific models of interest.  The stock is changed from model to model.  I would advise not to get too hung up on the scope.  The scope that is thrown in with a rifle is one you can't purchase alone.  Nobody would buy them, anyhow.  Are you locked in on Crosman?  Shop around.

Check out Flying Dragon Air Rifles.  The prices are reasonable and Mike will do partial tunes or full tunes.  Some are piston powered and some are spring.  He can put a piston in many of them.

Have you checked out Gamo or Stoeger?

I'm just suggesting a little shopping before buying.  Read a bunch of reviews, too.  Most airguns have poor triggers.  Many of the poor triggers can be replaced with a good one for about $35.

[confederatemule]

Thanks roadworthy.

I am looking for an inexpensive to shoot pellet rifle. I want to hunt wild squirrel in thick woods. They are very hard for this old man to slip up on.

With that in mind, I need long range accuracy with .177 pellets. I had the Nitro Piston rifles in mind because of, reported, accuracy, range, and low noise level. I was looking at Crosman because of availability and price.

Taking your suggestion, I looked at Flying Dragon Air Rifles. I am like the  Xisico XS28M. It is not a Nitro Piston gun, but other than that, I like it. Sure would be nice to be able to buy one fully tuned by Mike, but, that is out of my reach.

Course I could, and would, use a rifle that shoots .22 short rimfire cartridges, except they are hard to come by and expensive.

Again, Thanks.

Maybe someone else will add something.

Mule

[mooseslayer]

I have a Venom Dusk .177 and I have killed a bunch of grouse and a few squirrels up to 30 yds with head shots. Haven't shot past that yet. I did my own lube/tune/replaced brass breech washers and trigger (trigger is terrible but you can get one from CDT for about $30). Mine shoots very smooth now and is pretty accurate with HN FTT 5.52mm 8.64gr pellets that average 902fps. I usually group 5 pellets in dime size group at 20 yards off a bench. I can't speak on the other gun but I can tell you that my friend just bought a Trail NP XL and the shot cycle is very harsh even after a few hundred pellets. It shoots the same pellet at 1020 fps which I think is too fast as he can't get it to group. He is trying heavier pellets and a new scope that Crosman sent him as he blew up the one that came with it in under 2 weeks.
Hope it helps...

[confederatemule]

Thanks Mooseslayer, for your reply.

I do not know what I want to buy. I think I want to stick with .177.

I can't buy a Nitro Venom locally. I can't buy any air rifle, that catches my eye, locally, so what ever I buy will be mail order.

I have a Crosman Quest 1000, but I have never been able to hit with it. I think I would like a Nitro Piston powered rifle. The one that interests me the most is the Crosman Nitro Venom. Due to roadworthy's suggestion to look at "Flyng Dragon Air Rifles" link, I discovered the Xisico XS28M and like everything I have read, and the looks, of the it, but with the package I'd like, it is way out of my reach. I do not want a Co2 gun, simply because of the cost Co2.

While searching in the last few days I have learned that the air rifles need hundreds of pellets through them to level out and shoot consistently. I have shot less than 100 pellets through the Quest. I have had it more than 5 years. I am just now wanting to really shoot it or any other pellet rifle.

Anyway, thanks, y'all, for your knowledge, suggestions and opinions.

Mule

[JR]

Keep in mind that if you buy a gun from Mike at FlyingDragon and have him tune it there will be next to no breakin. Find a pellet it likes and shoot it

[Roadworthy]

Hey, Mule, regarding your quest - I'll start with the basics - have you cleaned it yet?  Most of the guys here recommend pulling a patch with Goo Gone through your barrel with fishing line or weed whacker line, followed by several clean patches to get the factory gunk out.  Then you should run about a hundred rounds through it just to get a coat of lead on the barrel again.

At this point you're ready to begin shooting.  Investigate the "artillery hold".  There is an art to shooting a spring gun.  They are nothing like a powder powered gun.  If you need one that shoots like that you are going to have to look at CO2 or PCP guns.  Shooting a spring gun takes practice but it can be done.

[LET]

With the artillery hold you need to let the gun forarm lay in your hand and usually hold it light with your right hand. I have good luck by putting my left hand near the balance point of the gun. Make sure you hold it the same each time, it makes a difference on how the gun shoots. To shoot accurately you need to shoot every day if you can. That's the fun part. The quest should be able to shoot decent groups. Good luck.  Larry

[56S]

I could be waaaaaay off base here but have you looked into converting your quest to a Nitro Piston?  After downloading some of the parts breakdown info I was able to find a metal trigger guard and different stock for my Titan.  Do some searching here and you may find someone has already done it.  Just a thought...

[Treb37]

The XL is a magnum springer. That means it's really hard on scopes and shooters too. If it's your first break barrel then I don't think anyone on here would recomend the Trail XL. It obviously has more power but that makes little difference if you can't hit what you aim at. They are hard to shoot well and just not a beginner AG. The venom and Vantage as well as the Quest, Titan, and Fury all have the same "power plant" frame. Some use springs others use an NP. These medium powered guns are all capable of doing what you want in the right hands. If your intention is squirrel hunting and you have no noise restraints or nearby civilization in the line of fire....it will be cheaper to use a .22LR in the long run even thought ammo is so expensive. Buying and learning to shoot a spring gun is really a journey with a steep learning curve from the start. If you are up for the journey then go for it, that's what hooks most of us in the first place. If you want something deadly accurate to hunt squirrels with tomrrow, Then you better have a fat wallet or just grab that old reliable .22LR and make every shot count.... 

[Roadworthy]

+ 1 on that.  You can buy a lot of .22 ammo (or even twelve gauge) for what it will cost to get proficient with a spring gun.  Of course you could consider a Benjamin Discovery but it may be beyond your budget.

[confederatemule]

WOW! So many variables. I just thought I was confused in the beginning. Now I really don't know which way to go. LOL

I have been doing some searching and reading. I think I'll stick with the Quest. Maybe I'll do a little tuning/cleaning, like roadworthy suggested.

I have a little over 20 acres, around 10 of it is woods to hunt on. I do worry about a .22lr when I shoot up into a tree top. Not so with a .22s. The only draw back to .22 rifle is the shortage of ammo.

I sure do appreciate the information, suggestions, and opinions.

Mule

[Roadworthy]

Mule, I have another possibility for your consideration.  You could investigate the "pump up" type air rifles.  They do not have the same velocity as a lot of the springers but they don't take a special hold to be deadly accurate, either.

Depending on the foliage and distance involved you might use bird shot in your .22.  I have a friend who devastates pigeons in his barn with it.

Happy hunting.