New Scopes

[nced]

I'll try one more time to explain that it's not the LENS being crooked that is the problem, it is the front edge of the objective bell, which is the surface you place the mirror against....  If that surface isn't square to the centerline of the scope, then using a mirror is a waste of time, and in fact will give you the wrong results....

Bob

Thanks Bob for the help!

See my "old dog learnin' new tricks" post on the "Optics forum"!

[l8p]

If I learned anything, it was that scope centering takes patience!

Great idea on the barrel straightening tool, I have a crooked barrel beggin' for that. Thanks

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

Alright, another dumb question (don't have any other kind) I'm assuming the lower the scope mount the better. But I like a higher mount, for whatever reason it's easier on my neck etc.

[nced]

Alright, another dumb question (don't have any other kind) I'm assuming the lower the scope mount the better. But I like a higher mount, for whatever reason it's easier on my neck etc.

Higher mounts benefit the mid and longer range pellet trajectory, however for the lower mounts benefit the short to mid range pellet trajectory. At the field target course where the shooter is "clicking on" I frequently see VERY high scope mounts, but for the hunter class shooters like myself that must use only "hold over/under" aiming I've found the lower mounts to be an asset. The problem with high mounts and holdover aiming (like when hunting and hunter class field target) is the fact that the pellet is rising quickly to the line of sight so there needs to be extremely precise holdover/under (determined by the zero distance) to get the pellet through a small 3/8" killzone at say 11 yards.

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

Thank you nced

I'm now getting worried, I have been hanging around here too long. I actually understood that and new scope is going on a lower mount.

[nced]

Thank you nced

I'm now getting worried, I have been hanging around here too long. I actually understood that and new scope is going on a lower mount.

Actually, you can get a Leapers high ring set from Pyramyd for around $10 and the medium rings for around $8. Get BOTH and see which works best for YOU! A;; shooters are different and one size definitely doesn't fit all!

I recently bought a newer version of a 4-16x Center Point scope and found that the "knobs" on the scope AO wouldn't allow focusing the scope if it was mounted in a Sportsmatch medium mount, however it would work if I put the scope in my medium BKL mount since it's about 1/16" taller. Here's a pic of the "knobs" I'm referring to..........

Even with the BKL mounts the scope can't be focused if the supplied flip up lense covers. While the "smooth AO" type scope like the 4-12x40 Vortex Diamondback and Bushnell scopes with a 40mm AO works fine with Leapers medium mounts, I still need to notch the scope cover to span the close distance between the AO and the R8 receiver..........


Anywhoo.......this brings up another point.........all "medium" mounts aren't the same height, the scope AOs also aren't all the same size so you may need a high mount especially if the scope has one of those 50mm+ Mount Palomar telescope size AOs!   

[DFWdude]

Higher mounts benefit the mid and longer range pellet trajectory, however for the lower mounts benefit the short to mid range pellet trajectory. At the field target course where the shooter is "clicking on" I frequently see VERY high scope mounts, but for the hunter class shooters like myself that must use only "hold over/under" aiming I've found the lower mounts to be an asset. The problem with high mounts and holdover aiming (like when hunting and hunter class field target) is the fact that the pellet is rising quickly to the line of sight so there needs to be extremely precise holdover/under (determined by the zero distance) to get the pellet through a small 3/8" killzone at say 11 yards.

Interesting topic.  My CZ200s uses a UTG 30mm HIGH mount with a Weaver Kaspa 3-12X 44mm scope.  This gives a little better cheek weld for me, and I have learned to shoot it fairly well out to 55yds.  Initially, I installed this High mount, thinking the Medium would not give enough bell clearance.  But, for the reasons you site, I have -- coincidentally -- found the High mounts good at the longer range, too.

However,

My CZ200s/Pardini FT Pistol uses the same scope with a UTG 30mm MEDIUM mount.  Clears the Weaver bell just fine, and great for the 10-30yd range in FT Pistol matches, and has all the advantages you note.

I continue to wonder if I should convert the rifle to the medium mounts.  But since I seem to shoot well with it as is, I'm really reluctant to change it out.  Your concise and well written explanation of the differences convinces has me thinking I have the right mounts for the applicable ranges (High out to 55yds, Medium out to 30yds).   I'd like to be convinced otherwise, but I'm starting to feel there is no real reason to hurry along with any change.

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

I continue to wonder if I should convert the rifle to the medium mounts.  But since I seem to shoot well with it as is

Well I think if the gun/mount properly works for you it's a done deal.

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

Anybody ever tried the mount below.

Instapark® One Piece High Power Magnum Airgun Scope Mount Stop Pin.

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

I read that when purchasing a new scope before mounting windage should be run all the way to a stop, it should then be run the opposite way, lets say 400 clicks till it stops then back it up 200 clicks. This is done to both adjustments. Up and down and side to side.

Then you mount scope and start adjusting scope sights. Would not a new scope already have this adjustment done.

I just get a scope, mount it and adjust scope sights while I shoot. Hope I explained it properly

A month or so ago I tried a scope on my old Quest and it did not happen. I adjusted as high as it would go and still was 2 or 3 inches below ctr. I was more interested in HW 50s and did not go further.

Yesterday after doing the count clicks program I remounted scope and I had 195 clicks to play with on elevation. Long story short, after moving elevation up 90 clicks all was good. The last 6 shots were on the button of quarter sized bullseyes and 2 were actually dead ctr. This was only 15 ft but it also was a breezy day. Again I became a legend in my own mind.

Now it's the only way I will ever adjust the ctring of a scope and actually thought it was not gonna change anything. No way I understand the mirror stuff and don't believe I have enough years left to accomplish the mirror feat.

Still wondering why they don't come new with I guess you would call a rough click centering progam. The good news is now when I get future new scopes I will at least do the click progam.

One last thing does anybody do the tapping of scope while adjusting.

[vinenator]

Although my scope arrived before my gun, I couldn't resist trying out the mirror method with my new scope. Lo and behold i could actually see cross-hairs and the reflection without difficulty. It only took 4-5 clicks on both axis to get the images to overlap. Then as a sanity check I took the scope to a different mirror and it was still spot on.

so, am I to assume that Hawke (in this case) sends their scopes with the reticle somewhat centered rather than just randomly assembled?

I realized that the mirror method is to get the scope close to alignment and until it is put on the rifle it doesn't make much difference. I watched the video (earlier post) of the man rolling the scope back and forth 90 degrees but he really wasn't explaining what he was doing. Could someone elaborate as to what to watch for?

as far as getting the vertical cross-hair aligned with the scope, i plan to use the plumb bob method. that reduces the procedure down to one thing, is the gun level? the string from the plumb bob is as close to vertical as one can get, so the dependent variable here is the leveling device on the scope.

has anybody compared a bubble level vs a leveling app on a smart phone? the app i have can measure down to .1 degree. If it "is" accurate, i doubt i could detect .1 degrees on a bubble level...or could i? time do some tests!

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

so, am I to assume that Hawke (in this case) sends their scopes with the reticle somewhat centered rather than just randomly assembled?

Well I assumed all scopes were sent with reticles somewhat centered. But if they are why would Hawke give instructions on how to get reticles "somewhat centered".

[Bullit]

Gun doesn't have to be level with the plumb bob method, or any long vertical line.  Think about it, and you'll see.

[nced]

Gun doesn't have to be level with the plumb bob method, or any long vertical line.  Think about it, and you'll see.

OK.....now this old timer is again confused!

I shoot hunter class field target and I use holdover to adjust the poi at various ranges. Aligning the vertical scope crosshair with the plumb bob at least aligns the row of dots on my vertical reticle with the pull of gravity. Since the pellet rises from the bore about 1 1/2" lower than the line of sight the pellet will then fall due the the force of gravity. Even at my zero distance the poi will fall left or right of the aim point depending on the tilt of the rifle. Now if my vertical reticle isn't aligned with gravity (crooked) and I use the crosshair for zeroing at 25 yards, then I use my second lower dot on the reticle (also not aligned with gravity) to aim at a 50 yard killzone,  my pellet will fall off to the side.

This is the reason I take pains to align the vertical reticle to gravity with a level on the barrel pivot block. That way I get a "feel" of when the vertical crosshair is indeed vertical and aligned with gravity.     

[nced]

so, am I to assume that Hawke (in this case) sends their scopes with the reticle somewhat centered rather than just randomly assembled?

Well I assumed all scopes were sent with reticles somewhat centered. But if they are why would Hawke give instructions on how to get reticles "somewhat centered".

LOL.....I owned three hawke scopes (two AirMax + one Panorama) and the reticle centering of none of them agreed when I centered the same scope using a mirror, counted clicks stop to stop and divide by two (the Hawke recommended method), or the spin the scope in vees method (recommended by Mike at Hawke support). The hawkes were indeed a rare bird relative to reticle centering by different methods, well, compared to my cheap $80 4-16 Center Point, my 4-12 Vortex Diamondback, or the 4-16 Bushnell Elite 4200 I used to own!

[D14Jeff]

i still don't understand why folks bother to "center the reticle" on their scopes . once it's mounted on the gun it'll have to be taken off center to adjust to the chosen range of the shooter .
.................. but ........... i'm a newbie 

[Kailua]

i still don't understand why folks bother to "center the reticle" on their scopes . once it's mounted on the gun it'll have to be taken off center to adjust to the chosen range of the shooter .
.................. but ........... i'm a newbie 

If the scope is centered the turret movement is more precise.  So that's where the mounts have to be adjusted to compensate for the POA to match the POI when sighting in.  Also not to run out of adjustment at longer range.

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

Yesterday after doing the count clicks program I remounted scope and I had 195 clicks to play with on elevation. Long story short, after moving elevation up 90 clicks all was good. The last 6 shots were on the button of quarter sized bullseyes and 2 were actually dead ctr. This was only 15 ft but it also was a breezy day. Again I became a legend in my own mind.

Above was done on my Quest that I previously tried to mount the scope on and ran out of adjustment trying to raise POI.

I was a sceptic but thought I'll give it a try and lo and behold it actually worked. It was kinda a pain in the butt doing it and not thinking it would work but it did.

Now the next pain in the butt are the warnings that if you use that method it can sometimes damage scope instead of help it. aaaaaggggggghhhHHHHHHH!!! This stuff can get confusing.

[Bullit]

Gun doesn't have to be level with the plumb bob method, or any long vertical line.  Think about it, and you'll see.

NCED.   If the muzzle is pointing up or down, the scope still tracks the vertical line, with the vertical reticle that you are adjusting.  Even with a canted rifle, using the scoperings to rest the scope in, you will still swivel the scope reticle, to the vertical line, for centering adjustments.  The gun is nothing but a rest at this point.  Once the scope is properly centered, add the tops to the rings, and set the scope leveled with the rifle.   I've used the box with cut Vee notches method, and it's worked for me.  Either way works.  Hope this helps.

[vinenator]

 i just watched this video on youtube



by Tom Gaylord.

he talks about looking through the scope with both eyes open in order to align the vertical cross-hair with the rifle.

Unfortunately, he never explains what he is looking at or looking for?

can anybody explain or provide a link to a video that explains it?