Hatsan 125 Sniper & standard 125 stocks compared ...

[SpringerForever]

For those that might be interested:

                                             LOP           Weight
Hatsan 125 Sniper Black      ~14 1/8"    49.6 oz (old design)
Hatsan 125 Sniper Black      ~14 1/8"    49.3 oz (old design)
Hatsan 125 Sniper Camo     ~14 1/8"    50.4 oz (old design)
Hatsan 125 Sniper Black      ~14 1/8"    49.6 oz (new design)
Hatsan 125 Sniper Black      ~14 1/8"    49.7 oz (new design)
Hatsan 125 Standard           ~14 3/4"    30.6 oz (with sling swivels)
WTM (AKA Hatsan Mod 125) ~14 5/8"    36.6 oz
Hatsan 125TH                     ~13 3/8"    46.1 oz (without forearm thrubolt hardware)
Hatsan 125TH                     ~14"          49.8 oz (with forearm thrubolt hardware & 3 LOP spacers)

In addition, the wrist on the standard is ~1/2" further back & extends downward ~3/4" less.

Aside from the obvious added weight of the adjustable comb on the Sniper stock it's more substantial overall. Don't know which one I like best. Still haven't decided. FWIW, compared to a wood stocked Hatsan 155 .22 29+ FPE I owned up to about two months ago my current synthetic stocked (same as standard 125 stock) WTM (re-badged 125) .22 30+ FPE sure jumps around more on firing. Not that I mind. Definitely a whole lot lighter than the Hatsan 155!

Edited to add additional stock weights. Including two new Hatsan 125 Sniper stocks with redesigned comb areas for more reinforcement. Weight didn't change with the redesign. Fit & finish of the new stocks seems to be a bit better too.

Edited yet again to add the Hatsan 125TH stock. Would be an ideal stock for those desiring a shorter LOP. Still haven't had a chance to compare it side by side with the Sniper stocks I have but hopefully I'll be able to do that later this week (10/29/13). I'll probably do a followup report in a separate post in this thread.

Edit for the 125TH with forearm hardware & the addition of 3 spacers to lengthen the LOP to ~14" which suits me better.

[SpringerForever]

I've been having way too many issues with the Sniper stock. Can't seem to keep the comb in place. And that's shooting BRed! I can just imagine what it would be like out in the field.

I've done quite a bit of prep work to the comb hardware on all of my Sniper stocks (5+ to date) in an effort to get it to stay in place without any success. My latest & greatest Sniper stock is the new (supposedly) improved design. Prepped this one even more thoroughly than all the others in an effort to once & for all solve the comb issue. Here are the steps I took:

= Removed the comb posts from the comb with minimal effort. Due to previous experiences with the comb falling off the posts during a shooting session.
= Cleaned the posts thoroughly with alcohol.
= Sanded the posts perpendicular to their length (around their circumference) using ~80 grit sandpaper, lifting the sandpaper to sand each section so that the sanding marks remained more or less perpendicular to the length. Did this to provide more 'bite' for the post nuts.
= Re-cleaned the posts with alcohol.
= Cleaned the post nuts thoroughly with alcohol.
= Used a coarse round file to 'groove' the interior of the post nuts to add to the 'bite'.
= Re-cleaned the post nuts with alcohol.
= Superglued the posts back into the comb.
= Reassembled with loctite & left overnite.

Despite doing all that, in the next day's shooting session the comb had 'walked' itself out of the stock by ~1/4" after 60 shots BRed from a fully inserted/seated (shooting open sights) position. I've tightened the heck out of it in an effort to get it to 'stay' in position without any apparent difference. Actually cracked one (old design) stock in an effort to get the comb to stay in place.

In looking for an alternative stock I actually mounted a plain jane Hatsan Mod 125 stock in my Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25 NPSS & compared it side by side with my new refurbished Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25 Vortex with it's latest & greatest stock. Concluded pretty quickly that, despite the nagging comb issue, I prefer the Sniper stock over the plain jane stock.

In my next test, I'm going to compare the 125TH stock to the Sniper stock. But I won't be getting the Hatsan Mod 125TH until this Wednesday so that test will come later in the week.

Despite the continued comb problems this latest Sniper stock is the best yet. I've got the camo version & this one has "Mossy Oak" printed on it in two places unlike the older versions which didn't. Plus, the trigger guard has been much improved. Previous versions were/are quite thin & had 'knife' edges unlike the latest which is meatier & rounded. Definitely a nice improvement. Saves me the time of removing the trigger guard & sanding the edges smooth & cleaning it up generally.

Unrelated to the stock but of note is that the trigger on this latest Hatsan Mod 125 .25 Vortex is also much improved. The best stock trigger yet out of all the Hatsan Mod 125s I've owned (4 to date since this past April). Measured the trigger pull at 2lbs ~6oz with my digital trigger pull gauge which is a record! Not only that, it's consistent! Very, very little variability unlike previous Hatsan Mod 125s. For reference, the highest stock pull for a Hatsan Mod 125 I've measured so far has been ~6-8lbs. And yes, it was that variable.

Other than the continued comb issues, I've been very happy with my Hatsan Mod 125s. They've all been & are sweet, sweet shooters & deadly accurate with open sights or better yet, an optic (if only I could find one that would survive!). My favorite now is the new refurbished Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25 Vortex I received last week. In .22 caliber it's my used refurbished Walther Talon Magnum (WTM = Hatsan Mod 125) coil spring powered rifle. Both rifles output almost the same FPE with their favorite pellet combos: JSB Exacts/Beeman CMs. But I'll probably be shooting the .25 Vortex the most as I prefer the shot cycle of a gas/air spring over a coil spring.

[SpringerForever]

Took a pic of the trigger guards:



The old trigger guard has had its edges smoothed with sandpaper so it's not entirely stock. I do that with all the old trigger guards, as well as some general cleanup.

[dw]

Speaking of the trigger guard, does anyone know where I could get a metal one to replace the resin one that comes with these Hatsans?

Dennis

[JR]

That's one of the first things I did with my 125 sniper is take the edge off the trigger guard with some 400 then 800 grit. It had a better edge on it than a couple pocket knifes I have.

I also put a star lock washer between the screw end and the posts for the comb with blue loctite on the screws good and snug. I put mine all the way down and it hasn't moved after 800'ish shots. The star washers I used have the teeth on the inside of the washer. I also sanded the ends of the comb screws flat, they are kind of concaved so there isn't much surface area contacting the post. If that didn't work or if it fails I'll just grind flat spots in the comb posts for the screws so it will be impossible for the comb to move up.

*Trigger Guard*

Unless you could get Hatsan in Turkey to send you a metal trigger guard plastic is the only option I know of

[SpringerForever]

That's one of the first things I did with my 125 sniper is take the edge off the trigger guard with some 400 then 800 grit. It had a better edge on it than a couple pocket knifes I have.

I also put a star lock washer between the screw end and the posts for the comb with blue loctite on the screws good and snug. I put mine all the way down and it hasn't moved after 800'ish shots. The star washers I used have the teeth on the inside of the washer. I also sanded the ends of the comb screws flat, they are kind of concaved so there isn't much surface area contacting the post. If that didn't work or if it fails I'll just grind flat spots in the comb posts for the screws so it will be impossible for the comb to move up.

*Trigger Guard*

Unless you could get Hatsan in Turkey to send you a metal trigger guard plastic is the only option I know of

FWIW, I've looked at quite a few comb bolts with the number of Sniper stocks I've gone thru & haven't noticed any sort of concavity at the ends.

Thanks for the tip on the star washers! Don't know why I didn't think of that. :-) I guess because I've been using red loctite & expecting it to 'eventually' hold the bolt & nut together. Not happening! At least not so far. So ... lock washers it is! I'll try the externals tho. At 800'ish for the internals you're using, the externals should hold real well.

Hopefully you won't have to do any grinding of the comb posts.

But if you haven't already, you might want to check the comb post mounting columns within the stock for cracking. All the old Sniper stocks I've had had cracked comb post mounting columns.

[SpringerForever]

Well, as promised, here's a short followup review of the 125TH stock.

Only shot a little over 40 pellets during the test so I'd like to do further testing before coming to a final decision on whether to continue using it or return to the Sniper stock with its continued comb issues.

Started off with the LOP at stock & quickly decided that it was way too short. I added a spacer at a time stopping at two which left the LOP at almost 13 7/8". Big improvement but I added a third spacer after the shooting session to bring the LOP to ~14" which is more in line with the LOPs on the Sniper stocks & what I'm used to & prefer.

I definitely prefer the 125TH stock over the Sniper stock. No comb issues obviously but more than that it just felt better. Especially offhand. Not that I took any shots but I did test shoulder it repeatedly & it felt more secure shouldered & it seemed that I was able to hold it steadier than the Sniper stock. The dimensions of the two stocks are practically identical from the the front all the way back to just behind the the trigger guard. The part of the stock that extends downward & ends in a flat spot located just behind the trigger guard is narrower on the 125TH & of course everything from there on back to the butt plate is different between the two stocks.

I've read of some 125TH stocks cracking just above the TH. Hopefully that won't happen to the two I currently have.

I've also read of some folks having an issue with thumb placement on THs but it wasn't an issue for me.

Strangely enuf I think the POI changed with the different stock. Had been testing the plain jane 125 stock before switching to the 125TH & the POI not only seemed to change with the switch in stocks but with the addition of the LOP spacers. I think? I'm still relearning how to shoot open sights & I'm still having trouble maintaining a consistent POA so it could've been just that instead.

Had the idea of adding a riser like the one on the Legacy Jim Shockey stock to the 125TH using Kydex(sp?) or something similar, some rivet nuts & some truss screws but that would add to the weight & possibly may not work any better than the Sniper stock's version. But for right now the lack of an adjustable comb isn't an issue since I'm using open sights. Might not even be one with a scope. It would depend on the scope.

All in all I really like the 125TH stock so ... for right now ... I'm giving it a big thumbs up!

[SpringerForever]

Just bought 1/4" external lock washers from my local Lowes (home improvement chain) for $1.14 per 4 & installed 2 on one of my Sniper stocks as a test. The 1/4" size seem to be a pretty good fit. But only time will tell if they do the trick.

Thanks to "JR" for the tip!

[JR]

Hope they work out for you, like I said mine hasn't moved, I looked at a couple options of locking it down and this was the quickest and easiest. The ends of my screws, like most threaded screws had the concave lip on the end, kind of a lip on the end. I just used a sanding belt to make the ends flat, took 30 seconds. With the end of the screws flat they contact the star washer better.

Besides notching the posts I kicked around sanding the ends of the comb screws to a more or less a point, kind of a crude setscrew.

[Airgun.Sniper]

  Thanks for this bid of information

[SpringerForever]

Hope they work out for you, like I said mine hasn't moved, I looked at a couple options of locking it down and this was the quickest and easiest. The ends of my screws, like most threaded screws had the concave lip on the end, kind of a lip on the end. I just used a sanding belt to make the ends flat, took 30 seconds. With the end of the screws flat they contact the star washer better.

Besides notching the posts I kicked around sanding the ends of the comb screws to a more or less a point, kind of a crude setscrew.

I had the same idea! But then decided that there probably wasn't enuf thread for that.

Another poster, "Privateer", drilled recesses (I'm guessing in the posts) to stop the comb from moving. I had that idea as well but I like your idea better. So I'll stick with the lock washers for now.

[SpringerForever]

Thanks again "JR"!

The lock washers are working like a charm! 560 shots so far & the comb hasn't even budged a bit!

Did have to re-do my brother's Sniper stock tho. Didn't prep it as well previously & not only did the comb move but it actually came off the posts so I re-did it using the steps in my post above & so far it's holding as well.

[WHITEFANG]

Poi. Very possible just changing simular stocks can alter you poi. There is always dome play built in the stock. The simple method of tightening the stock in a different pattern as well can affect the poi.
Since surgery just changing the non use of the index finger to the middle finger changed the poi of all my guns.

[SpringerForever]

Followup on the external star washers.

~1030 shots later & the comb is still holding!

Minor miracle!

[SpringerForever]

And a followup on the 125TH & Sniper stock comparison.

The 125TH doesn't seem to 'dampen' the recoil of the NPSS as much as the Sniper stock. It was especially noticeable when I briefly switched to the OEM coil spring. I don't know why? They're both almost the same weight. Could be the Sniper's added material for the adjustable comb accounts for the difference? The 125TH stock has nothing to fill that 'hollow'. Perhaps I'll try some expanding foam. Or just live with it. I prefer the 125TH's ergonomics over the Sniper's.

Just something else to consider when selecting a stock for one of the Hatsan super magnums.

[vernongt]

Speaking of the trigger guard, does anyone know where I could get a metal one to replace the resin one that comes with these Hatsans?

Dennis

Why Dennis?
Why would anyone want to add more weight to this rifle?
Once you've upgraded the scope rings, the scope & put a sling on it, why would you wanna make it any heavier?
You guys must really bang your air rifles around if you need 'metal everything' on it! Phew!!!
I treat my rifles with more care than I do my wife!
Gee!!!

[Privateer]

I don't think a metal trigger guard is going to make that much of a difference when carried.
Looks wise it would be nice if you're after that aspect.

If weight of that small of an amount is an issue?
You'd know enuff to trim weight in other places.

[vernongt]

Quite true Jeff,
But let me try a different tack...

Before I get into this, let me explain that I've never understood why a new Harley owner needs to modify their pipes to a noisier one; I've never understood why the first thing an owner does to a new car/truck, is pull the stereo out and stick in some after-market model which needs an adapter to make it fit; and usually looks like a 'backyard job'. That being said...

I understand perfectly why we upgrade/modify things on our air rifles to make them shoot better [groups/smoothness/lighter etc], [GTR trigger blades, Drooper Rails, Tune-ups], but I don't get cosmetic changes that don't do a thing to make the rifle more erganomic or shoot better.

Yeah, I've refinished all my wooden stocks, but mostly that was; [especially in the last instance], to put a tougher finish on them. My Benjamin Trail NP XL was just refinished because I accidentally scraped the OEM finish off, [one coat sprayed on], with my thumbnail and it looked awful. 

Unless you are rough on your rifles, and want a tougher trigger guard, but then why would you worry about accuracy, because you'd be knocking the heck outa your zero all the time?

Someone wanna explain? I'm confused! 

[AudiS4]

Some of us AG:s also want a nice looking rifle, so we buy a 95, with the gold trigger and walnut stock, cause we think the 125 is one "piece of ugly inbred sibling with bad teeth, a 2x4 of a chest and cross eyed to the point of all whites..."

I understand why someone would like a brass triggerguard, instead of a black plastic "piece of......

[vernongt]

Brilliant answer. Now I understand where you're coming from.