bstaley tune for Prod?

[phantomshtter]

My searching efforts do not turn up much I swear.  Can this even be done on a prod?  Where do I buy these?  I'm guessing it's a member of a forum?  Where can I get a contact for these?  Does the mod have instructions somewhere?  A point in the right direction is much appreciated.  Thanks folks.

[shultz]

works very well in a P-rod   opening the transfer port and adding a stiffer spring is a must if you want more power, I'm shooting about 16.5 FPE(14.66gr FFT) with a Discovery hammer spring and transfer port opened up to .110 and I COULD shoot harder Vs about 13 FPE(14.66gr FFT) with the stock port/spring maxed out.

For the mod all you need are the o rings, stiffer hammer spring, a .110 drill bit and a chrony.

This post covers both the M-rod and P-rod. I'm trying it on my Discovery next... waiting on parts from crosman so I can install a Challenger 2009 Hammer and adjuster. a few more links at the bottom of the post for chrony info.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1315440196/Poor+man%27s+M-Rod%2C+P-rod%2C+etc-+%26quot%3BRegulator%26quot%3B+explained+%28Long%29

[phantomshtter]

works very well in a P-rod   opening the transfer port and adding a stiffer spring is a must if you want more power, I'm shooting about 16.5 FPE(14.66gr FFT) with a Discovery hammer spring and transfer port opened up to .110 and I COULD shoot harder Vs about 13 FPE(14.66gr FFT) with the stock port/spring maxed out.

For the mod all you need are the o rings, stiffer hammer spring, a .110 drill bit and a chrony.

This post covers both the M-rod and P-rod. I'm trying it on my Discovery next... waiting on parts from crosman so I can install a Challenger 2009 Hammer and adjuster. a few more links at the bottom of the post for chrony info.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1315440196/Poor+man%27s+M-Rod%2C+P-rod%2C+etc-+%26quot%3BRegulator%26quot%3B+explained+%28Long%29

I'm happy with the power as is, just interested in the flatter shot curve and getting more shots.  Thanks for the link, my google searches weren't turning up that thread.   

[rsterne]

The bstaley mod detunes the gun.... so you have to first increase the power and then install the O-rings to get back to roughly the same power you had originally.... It's the nature of the beast....

Bob

[phantomshtter]

The bstaley mod detunes the gun.... so you have to first increase the power and then install the O-rings to get back to roughly the same power you had originally.... It's the nature of the beast....

Bob

Well I'm already at spring tension 7 turns clockwise and throw length full CCW.  Will I be able to achieve the same power I'm at now after the install?  Throw length is at it's highest at full CCW right?

[rsterne]

In my experimenting with a Disco, when the buffer was doing it's job properly, the gun was detuned about 150 fps below what it shot without it.... From what I have read on using the O-rings in  PRod, you need to increase the breathing of the gun by increasing the transfer port size to compensate.... I don't have a PRod, however, perhaps PM bstaley, he is a member of this Forum....

One of the biggest advantages of the bstaley mod (once the correct hammer spring preload is found) is the ability to tune the velocity of the gun over a wide range just by adjusting the hammer stroke.... You can literally go from unbuffered to under 500 fps (and lots of shots) for quiet indoor shooting with the twist of a single screw....

Bob

[FuzzyGrub]

What power level are you currently at?  With spring, tp, and 3-orings, should be able to get a flat 24 shots @ 16FPE w/14.66FTT's.

[shultz]

"Well I'm already at spring tension 7 turns clockwise and throw length full CCW.  Will I be able to achieve the same power I'm at now after the install?  Throw length is at it's highest at full CCW right?"

assuming your gun is close to mine your right at 12-13FPE at that tune shooting 14'ish gr pellets. You are maxed out on spring and full CCW on throw so that's it... nothing more to gain tuning.

The O-rings will drop FPS 100-150 and you can't get that back without adding at the very least a stiffer spring. Now, if you add the O-rings, stiffer spring and drill out the TP you will be able to tune from 12FPE( or less) up to the low 20's with heavy pellets, you MUST go all in with the bstaley tune if you want the full benefit.

What's your shot count now? at 12-13 FPS I could get around 30 shots, not real flat but still shot OK out to 25yds, I usually kept my # of shots to about 24 for a better spread. With the  bstaley mod I'm shooting harder and flatter for the same 24 shots, I do use a little more air, about 1200PSI vs 1000PSI, worth it to me.

John

[phantomshtter]

I'm fine with power and shot count I'm getting, just thought if I could throw a couple Orings in the gun and get a flatter curve then why not.  Nevermind then, not worth the work and parts for such a negligible gain to me.  Thank you all for the explanation though, much appreciated as always.

JR

[wilsonj1018]

I had like 19ish fpe for 16 shots was a fun process

[phantomshtter]

I had like 19ish fpe for 16 shots was a fun process

SHEESH, that's some power out of a pistol.   

[bstaley]

Yes, it works very well in the p-rod.  In fact that's the gun I originally developed the mod on.  As stated by others, the mod gives the most benefit when combined with the standard power mods.  I've tuned mine from as low as 8fpe to as high as 25 fpe.

Here's my current tune.....about 15 fpe and 32-40 shots (4-5 mags) per fill depending on the ES you are willing to tolerate:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/message/1356564629/Sounds+like+you+are+on+the+right+track.

[RayK]

Just do it!  It is so worth the effort and it only costs a few dollars to do.  I tried so many other ways to get a good number of high power shots out of the P-rod without success.  With the BHB, I can easily get 24 shots at 16 FPE with an ES of only 25 FPS.  And if I wanted to, I could dial it down or up to change my configuration, then dial it back to this tune just by setting the hammer throw (which now acts as a velocity adjuster).

This may help.  You can think of the shot string as a steeply pointed mountain.  The BHB chops off the top peak turning it into a mesa, then the part you chopped off gets flipped over and added on to the end of your shot string (or side of the mesa).  It reduces ES over a much longer shot string than you can get without it - especially in the P-rod.

They are right that it lowers the peak velocity, but you can boost that by doing the other mods they suggest: stiffer hammer spring and drilling the transfer port to .11.  If you have a 7/64" drill bit, that is perfect, but if not, a 1/8" drill bit works too.

And for the spring, they cost less than 50 cents from a hardware store.  You want one that is .30" OD 1.75" long and .041" diameter wire.  Here is a spring like the one I used https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/?navid=12104862+4288244062+4288160107+4288244059+4288246851

Not intending to insult, but you can search the Ineternet much more effectively if you use google instead of forum search.  Here is an example of how you can find info on this modification.  Type this into google search:

bstaley o-ring how to

This YouTube video shows the basics, but he is missing two key steps: adding set screw to the hammer throw and burnishing the o-rings with silicone grease.  Plus you don't need to degas your gun to do this.


Ray

[phantomshtter]

I didn't use forum search, I googled it.  No result to the original post from Bstaley (which I was looking for) within a reasonable amount of searching.  I may get to it soon, I just thought it was a one part drop in and shoot deal.

[RayK]

I may get to it soon, I just thought it was a one part drop in and shoot deal.

No, it is an alternative way to set up your PCP for easier tuning and longer, flatter shot string.  Well worth the effort though and you can boost power very easily on the P-rod using the methods I posted above.

I wrote this today and it includes everything you need to know about the BHB plus links to all the threads, videos, and (very inexpensive) parts.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn0RFfnH9YnFaEbT5ynizTnIyJ9DG6u5htJ_65R9P5g/edit?usp=sharing

Ray

[phantomshtter]

I may get to it soon, I just thought it was a one part drop in and shoot deal.

No, it is an alternative way to set up your PCP for easier tuning and longer, flatter shot string.  Well worth the effort though and you can boost power very easily on the P-rod using the methods I posted above.

I wrote this today and it includes everything you need to know about the BHB plus links to all the threads, videos, and (very inexpensive) parts.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn0RFfnH9YnFaEbT5ynizTnIyJ9DG6u5htJ_65R9P5g/edit?usp=sharing

Ray

WOW!  Ray that is AWESOME.  I will most certainly be getting to the job sooner rather than later with that excellent document you've put your efforts into.  Who am I to say but that is worthy of a sticky if you ask me!  Sticky anyone?  Mods?

[kelly1]

I may get to it soon, I just thought it was a one part drop in and shoot deal.

No, it is an alternative way to set up your PCP for easier tuning and longer, flatter shot string.  Well worth the effort though and you can boost power very easily on the P-rod using the methods I posted above.

I wrote this today and it includes everything you need to know about the BHB plus links to all the threads, videos, and (very inexpensive) parts.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn0RFfnH9YnFaEbT5ynizTnIyJ9DG6u5htJ_65R9P5g/edit?usp=sharing

Ray

thanks for that...kelly

[jessered]

The bstaley oring buffer is a great way to learn the ins and outs of a pcp. I've done it to my prod but have also done a couple of other mods. Getting rid of that sharp 90 degree turn is probably the most important and enlarging the transfer port. I've also worked on my 2240KT and it helps.


But if you are not a "tinkerer" by nature, then your prod is a heck of a lot of fun just like it comes from the factory. No matter what you decide to do, just have fun!!!!!!!!

[nickE10mm]

Just thought I'd quickly post here to tell mister RAY..... WOW!  Thank you again for this document you created!  QUALITY, succinct advice in nearly EVERY SINGLE AREA needed for the PRod guns.  Thank you again!  (and sorry for resurrecting this thread from the dead but...wow.  recognition needed and given!)

-Nick

[JimD]

I tried several transfer port sizes, stock hammer spring, a spring with .042 inch wire, a spring with .045 inch wire and a variety of hammer spring tension and hammer throw.  My final tune uses 4 round O-rings, a .042 hammer spring, a .111 transfer port, 5.25 turns on the hammer spring and 1.25 turns on the hammer throw.  Shooting copper plated FTTs I get 30 shots with a 29.9 ED, a 7.43 std deviation and an average fpe of 16.4.  My Avenger's ES is higher than this sometimes.  I also get 1/4 inch 25 yard groups when I do my part.  I wanted this sort of power level for thumping squirrels hard enough they don't run off.  I did not like my shot count at higher energies.  I fill to 3000 psi.  But you can reduce ES a little by filling a little lower and quitting a little sooner.  For more shots at lower power you want to use a smaller transfer port and might get by with the stock spring.