10 m rifle contemplation

[ac12]

@Arjuna
Watch how you say it.  This stuff gets tricky.

"I'd love to see a regulation 10m AR match here."
This means diopter sights, no scope.
Full shooting outfit allowed.

What you probably meant was, "10m AR match using regulation 10m AR targets."

What is probably a better match for GTA is a match from the old "High Noon Postal Match" called AR-REQ-30. 
The general rules were:
- standard 10m AR, except as follows
- 30 shots
- Standard "street/sport clothes"
- NO shooting outfit allowed (jacket, pants, boots)
- Only shooting gloves allowed

Cutting it down to 20 shots would probably better match for GTA, making it AR-REQ-20
Sights could be open (diopters, red-dot, scope), but you have to declare the sight used, so when the results are posted, you can compare like to like.

To avoid the logistics of CA/PCP, you could get a SSP rifle like the Anschutz 2002 Super Air, or FWB-601

[Kelrod]

"I'd love to see a regulation 10m AR match here."

This sounds fun, but then I would have to find targets that make a clean hole again. I missed last weeks 10 m competition as they were remodeling the 10 meter range where I shoot for the Sooner State Games, and this week I go on vacation. I too have been looking at good 10 meter rifles and I don't know why Daisy won't just put a better trigger on there 10 meter rifles, that would solve everything for me.

[ac12]

Kelly,

Get commercial 10m AR targets, and tape it to a stiff piece of cardboard, and use wadcutters.  I get nice holes with that setup.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/172394/nra-official-air-rifle-target-ar-5-5-10-meter-air-rifle-paper-package-of-100
http://www.straightshooters.com/ss-33-10-meter-5-on-rifle-targets.html
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/723452/nra-official-air-rifle-target-ar-5-10-10-meter-air-rifle-paper-package-of-100

Have you done the trigger mods to your 953? 
It is well documented and a pretty easy DIY. 
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39648.0
While it won't give you a full on match trigger, it is pretty decent and a LOT better than the stock trigger.

One of the mods (the adjustable sear engagement) is actually standard in the 888/887 rifles.  And it can be retrofitted to the x53 rifles, including the 953, which is what I recommend in the link above.

The biggest thing that Daisy can do, and what I'm puzzled they don't do is to simply "finish" or at least deburr the bearing surface of the trigger sear and the hammer.  That that one simple change will give a tremendous improvement to the trigger.  It is a pitty that that has become probably the #1 after sale target fix for the rifles.  Even so, if you want a smooth trigger pull, you will still want to polish the sear to make the pull as smooth as you can.

The x53 and 88x rifles were made with the idea of low cost to give access to a lot of shooters as part of the sportster program.  So one of their goals is low manufacturing cost.  It appears that they have given the high end of the sportster rifles to Crosman (Challenger 2009) and AF (Edge).  But if Daisy is sharp they will be taking apart both the Crosman Challenger 2009 and AF Edge to see what ideas and improvements they can make to their rifles, and the trigger has to be one of them.

[Kelrod]

ac12,

Yeah I did the trigger mod and while it is better it is nowhere near the trigger of the T05 on my 34. I wish I could have that trigger on my 953.

[ac12]

@Kelrod

Yup the trigger is what it is.
If I want a better trigger, I switch rifles to one of my match rifles.
Here is the puzzle.  The IZH-60/61 have a GREAT trigger, and those rifles are about $120.  That has been the puzzle for me.  How do the Russians put such a good trigger into a rifle at that price point?

[michaelthomas]

This is pretty unorthodox, but i wanted to experiment with how the chassis of a rifle alone could impact shooting performance for myself.

The 753 in stock form is a pretty dismal fit for me......and it's feather light.  I have very long arms and long fingers.

Long story, short......I could shoot low 80's at best with the stock 753 and the trigger mods, and routinely hit the low 90's (up to 95) with the modified chassis.  My best 30 was 280, with a fair amount coming close to that.  The extra weight was helpful, but the fit of the rifle helped tremendously to keep me steady.  I can close my eyes, shoulder the rifle.......and when I open them, the front and rear sights will be in perfect alignment for me every time.......with a great shoulder and cheek weld.  I don't have to strain in any way, and I can shoot very upright with the sight coming right to my eye.  I do shoot with a bit of cant, and I milled the pump handle to fit between the 1st and 2nd knuckle of my fisted hand at the proper cant.  It looks a little funky, but it answered a lot of questions for me about what shooting improvements could be had with a rifle that was comfortable to hold.  It now weighs around 10 lbs and balances on my front hand nicely.

I clamped the rifle in the vise of my mill and pointed it out the shop door to a trap at 10m and fired every brand of pellet I could find.
JSB Match Diabolo Lights would hold .020"-.030" c to c over 5 shot strings consistently.  The next closest was a H&N match pistol, but they were opened way up at around .175" if i remember correctly......and the rest just got worse from there.  This thing only shoots at 480fps with the JSB's, and falls to 450 or less with anything else.  I live at about 5700', so it doesn't get much of a charge with the thin air.

I replaced the Gamo $)((# rear sight with the Air Force rear sight.  That gave me a ton more consistency.  I could chase the Gamo all over sometimes, and finally figured out it had a bind in both windage and elevation......and merely pumping the rifle could sometimes jar it past the bind and change the settings all at once.  I turned a range of new rear sight peeps with holes from .5mm to 1.5mm out of aluminum.  The original Air Force plastic one was not even round.  These look identical to the Gamo aluminum peep, but with the different thread.  I shoot in a bunch of different lighting settings, and they have come in handy.  i use the rubber shade from the Gamo.

The trigger is still &^^&.

I actually had a pretty good time building it.

Overall, it's definitely not a match rifle.....but it is a lot better for me than the plain 753.  I'm now convinced of the merits of a very adjustable rifle that can be made to fit.

I'm just beginning to shoot again after a lengthy break, and I'm enjoying it. 

Mike

[ac12]

WOW Mike
That is COOL.

[michaelthomas]

Thanks

[Kenp]

Re rifle choice, I have  a high end PCP match rifle as well as many match springers. I have found that there is a small advantage to the PCP, but the match springer teaches you to follow through after the shot breaks, a lesson that is required for good PCP scores also.
As previously mentioned the feinwerkbau 602/ 603 single stroke pneumatic is also an excellent rifle and can be found for $500 to $1200 for the 603.
I have shot some excellent 5 shot offhand groups with all my rifles, even my old feinwerkbau 150. As far as match springers go, in my opinion the finest ever made is the anschutz lg 380, shoot one back to back with a feinwerkbau 300s and you will see what I mean.

[Frank in Fairfield]

http://www.crosman.com/airguns/rifles/pcp/CH2009S

Crosman single shot PCP

[ac12]

@Frank
The Crosman Challenger 2009 has been displacing the Daisy co2 rifles in sporster competition.
I do not know the reason, for the change from Daisy to Crosman.  My gut feel is it must be easier to shoot better scores with the Crosman Challenger 2009 than the Daisy/Avaniti 888/887.  If you are shooting higher levels of competition, an additional few points can make a difference.

[sperho]

Re rifle choice, I have  a high end PCP match rifle as well as many match springers. I have found that there is a small advantage to the PCP, but the match springer teaches you to follow through after the shot breaks, a lesson that is required for good PCP scores also.
As previously mentioned the feinwerkbau 602/ 603 single stroke pneumatic is also an excellent rifle and can be found for $500 to $1200 for the 603.
I have shot some excellent 5 shot offhand groups with all my rifles, even my old feinwerkbau 150. As far as match springers go, in my opinion the finest ever made is the anschutz lg 380, shoot one back to back with a feinwerkbau 300s and you will see what I mean.

I think I'd be happy with a 603 or a P70 or, or, or or.....  When I make up my mind, I'll probably look for last gen PCPs or a nice 603 or the like.  However, I'm biased toward something that is newer, for parts availability in the future.  I did a little research on the 380 and I understand that Anschutz isn't supporting them any more (not surprisingly). Point is, I'm set up for PCP and want the best I can/want to afford at the time I decide to pull the trigger, be it SSP or PCP (or if I find a steal of a deal on an old match springer).  All of these guns (including the non-match rifles I own) can shoot better than I can anyway!  I just went through a slump of lower than usual scores due to what I discovered to be poor cheek weld and that took me a week to figure out... I have a long way to go before I have the fundamentals down.  and feel that I've earned the right to move to a nice target rifle...

[Kenp]

It's always nice to have the best equipment, I fully agree, and Feinwerkbau support on parts is excellent .
PCP  10M match rifles are a joy to own and shoot, you will not be disappointed.

[michaelthomas]

Aaaah......just get the new rifle now.  The fundamentals will progress anyway, and you'll just be happier in the meantime.

Mike

[sperho]

Aaaah......just get the new rifle now.  The fundamentals will progress anyway, and you'll just be happier in the meantime.

Mike

. Enabler!  Must...save...pennies (and not look at targettalk classifieds in the meantime!)...