Your Favorite scopes?

[JonnyReb]

 As i try to scope out my new springer, i'm reminded of all the trouble i've had with various scopes over the years. My bushnell's, rws, BSA and gamo scopes all failed fairly quickly on various springers. Sometimes it was my fault as i had to crank some scopes to their limit on guns with drooping barrels or misaligned barrels. Sometimes it was obviously the scopes as poi shifted constantly or crosshairs refused to adjust on scopes near optical center, after just a few dozen or hundred shots. I've wasted thousands of shots because of bad scopes. That goes back to the first miserable 4x20 tube scope that came on a 760 in about 1982. I did 25+ years of bad airgun scopes.

  All that changed when i picked up a 4x16x40 centerpoint at wallyworld a few years ago, it has held up to my rws350 for about 2 years and several thousand shots with only minor changes in poi. A 3x9x44 30mm, 2 bugbusters, a 3x9x40 with the locking turrets, a 3x9x32 and a bottom line 4x centerpoint/leapers all seem to do their job pretty well. They reestablished my faith in airgun scopes.

  I'm kinda bored with their line now though, and want to try something different. What do you folks think of Hawke, NC star, Bariska, weaver(4x28 lightweight), swift, tasco or other possible brands of airgun scopes? Are there any you consider bulletproof on a springer?

 I appreciate any replies.... J
 

 

[454 Big Block Chevy]

Leapers, about the best you can get... centerpoints seem to hold up pretty well...   or if you have $ go buy a leupold

[JonnyReb]

 lol,  notice i didn't mention them(leupold)... i know they are good but i won't be buying any more big ticket items till... business picks up or i win the lottery.  J

[AirScopes]

Hawke AirMax (which I deal) are built for airgunners/springers. NCStar I have not tested, but I am not terribly hopeful. There are a few Swift scopes that are built for springer recoil...and only a few Bushnell specifically designed to withstand double-recoil. I have found Leapers to be a bit flakey, and often hear about them failing. I own Leupold, Nikon, Swift, Hawke, Sightron (which I actually like more than Leupold), Millett, Bushnell, some Vector Optics scopes (I sell these too) and some Leupold Mark 4 knockoffs.

A few things you'll want in a scope:

1) it had better be springer rated. I am testing some non-springer rated scopes and some will last, but you can't be sure (until after my write ups ;-).

2) You want AO if you do shooting at short range.

3) 30mm tubed scopes are generally brighter, but there are a lot of variables that feed into that.

Manufacturers are paying more attention to springer needs. If you want to define a price range, it may be easier to narrow down.

 Richard

[Jay]

BookDoc is that you??HA I went an looked it is, glad to see ya Bro., what took so long.

[JonnyReb]

   Thanks Richard, for the reply.
 Of course what i'd like is to get a great product at an inexpensive price.  The leapers/centerpoint fits the bill but the other scopes in the same price range, such as the bariska or NC star($50.00-100) are unknowns to me and although i like their specs and the fact that they have no electronics, i'm not sure how they hold up to springer recoil.

 The mid priced scopes such as the Hawke or Swift($125.00-200.00) are unknowns as well and i'd hate to drop that money for a bunch of hassle and return issues. I recall several posts on another site about how great the customer service was at Hawke and it made me laugh as the site pushed that brand of scope and i found it ironic that the posts were touting the companies handling of their scopes failures. That kept me away from Hawke but i'd like to hear what more folks think of them. The midpriced weavers are of interest if they are truly durable, as would be Nikon, i didn't know they made an airgun rated scope. I'll check out millett and vector optics as i'm not very familiar with them. Are their scopes truly tough enough for long term springer usage?

 Sightron and leupold are flat out of my price range but i have no doubt that they make fantastic equipment.

 To answer your question, i'm looking to keep it under $200.00, but would love to hear about someones 3 year old bariska that cost them $50.00 and hasn't shifted since installed.... guess i'm looking for another leapers... 
 

[Mug08]

Hawke gets my vote. They're a few extra bucks, but the clarity and brightness are right there with higher priced scopes. I haven't had one fail yet - so I can't comment on customer service.
  I've got a couple of Leapers too with no problems

        Mark

How's it going Richard? I was wondering if you were going to show up at the new "digs"

[Davee1]

My favorite is the Leapers airgun rated TS(True Strength) 6-24x50AO.  But that wont fit on all guns because its long. Same with the Leapers 4-16x50AO.
I've had really good luck with the BSA 3-12x44AO airgun scopes, but they are not mildot reticles, but they fit on a good portion of my springers...not as long as the Leapers.

[JonnyReb]

My favorite is the Leapers airgun rated TS(True Strength) 6-24x50AO.  But that wont fit on all guns because its long. Same with the Leapers 4-16x50AO.
I've had really good luck with the BSA 3-12x44AO airgun scopes, but they are not mildot reticles, but they fit on a good portion of my springers...not as long as the Leapers.

  I've got a 6x24 leapers too,  never been able to put it on anything because it's to long..    sure love to try it out though.

  What kind of guns are your BSA's ok on Davee? Anyone else like their BSA?

[Davee1]

Johnny, my BSAs work good on all my Gamos.  They have done time on my pair of Diana 350Ms, Beeman RS2 switchbarrel, and a short stint on my WFH .25.  They didn't fail, surprisingly.  They might be on a few others that I didnt list because they are all over the house right now, and I cant remember.  They are about 13.5~13.75" long depending on AO adjustment.  Heck, they fit on just about anything.

A while back, the supply dried up for months, and a guy couldn't get one new.  As soon as they came back around, I bought a few just to have laying around for spares.  At 45~55 bucks they are a bargain.  Its nice to have at least one in a drawer somewhere for that spur of the moment air rifle purchase but you dont have enough for a scope kind of thing.  I stocked up on Accushot high/medium rings and 1pc bases at the same time, so now I'm ready for anything. 

[daveshoot]

My favorite AG scope is easily... Hawke Eclipse SF in 30mm.

I have several Hawkes now, and really like the AirMax series too. I also like their one-piece mount. Hawke is my AG brand of choice, but the side focus (and the 30mm tube) really spoiled me.

I have several BSA, Centerpoints, NC Stars (pistol), and a Golden Antler, and they are all on my "ok" list.

I have a weird "Eagle Eye" thing I got at a gun show, but I can never get the eyepiece to focus exactly. It is my second one and they were both the same... I have to unscrew to the last thread. It's in a closet somewhere.

I did convert a Daisy Powerline to "AO" for laughs. I wouldn't really recommend this brand to anyone with a decent budget.


I only have one Leupold and it's on a .270 that I never shoot (it's always out of air). It was a great scope, but I have a hard time justifying that kind of cash on a bb gun. 

[AirScopes]

Glad to hear a few people were actually looking for me... I'd signed up right away but had a lot going on recently. Trying to make money in the new business while setting it up is really sapping the resources -- just ask Gene!

I think there are a lot of decent choices under $200. I'm not a scope (or rifle) snob, but I do go by what I experience. I bought some high-end name-brand scopes to have first-hand experience, and I like them, but don't know that I can be 100% that in paying more you always get better. Some people will be fine with a $10 scope (which will look blurry on the edges, have chromatic aberration so bad half the view looks blue, and will make it foggy out on a clear day), while some need not just a scope, but prestige and a price-tag that goes with it. Optics, I think, are an acquired taste: you have to see there is a difference before you appreciate it. That gets hard to do for most people when the price tag hits the spending limit, and you can't be sure what the difference is. Just like most people don't pay much attention to a lens on a camera, in that case, it really is the most important component. Yet few want to pay more for a lens than a camera body. Likewise, most don't want to spend more on a scope than the rifle, and jeepers, open-sights are free.

For me, the difference is that I get a good image that I see clearly, and that the scope stands up to the purposes I use it for. For that same reason I would NOT look into Millett -- none of the scopes are rated for springers. I like the Millett scopes -- feel and design I think they are excellent... I just can't shoot with one on a springer. As such, my Millett sits on a Pneumatic where it won't get hurt. I would also not spend a lot on a non-rated scope (perhaps with the exception of Nikon and Sightron who claim all of their scopes will withstand springer recoil). Most Bushnell scopes are NOT springer rated...there are a select few within specific lines that are. If Hawke scopes were noted by some as breaking under the strain of springers, I wonder if they were discussing the two models made for springers?

So, under $200, what would I suggest? The Swift 686 is a nice scope, though I think a little out of its range when it hits 18X. I don't know that I think it is better than the Hawke AirMax. One of my favorite scopes in the sub $200 range is the Bushnell Banner 6-18x50 AO. This is rated for springers by Bushnell, and I think optically it is better than the other two.

One odd corner of the market that I hold dear right now is the market for chinese scopes. It used to be an OEM market, where if a manufacturer wanted a cheap 4x32 to throw on their consumer rifle, they got it branded in China. Over a period of time, springers have gone from Euro elite to made in China, and I think that the Chinese market of rifles is gaining some respect. It follows that scopes are also improving. The series of Vector Optics (and similar) scopes I have are modeled after Leupold and other expensive scopes (some essentially exploiting differences in laws to commit what are essentially copyright violations). These go for about 1/10th the cost of the scopes they are modeled after. I've been using them on my springers without an issue. In fact, I think the quality is well beyond a $150-$200 scope.

I would be interested in hearing from one or two people who would pay half-price on these to test. If you break it, I buy it back. If it doesn't break (and I don't think it will), you got a nice deal. I'd be willing to entertain anyone's willingness to do that... I'd prefer someone with a gun that has busted other scopes, and who would be available to shoot with it a lot! PM me if interested.

Glad to see topics coming back here. Looking forward to everything getting back to speed!

Richard

[daved]

I've tried a lot of scopes in the last 5 or 6 years.  I gave up on Leapers awhile ago, some were good optically but failed mechanically, some had crappy optics from the git-go.  I'm going to disagree with Richard on a couple of points. 

First, ALL Bushnells are springer rated, or so Bushnell says.  How much stock you put in that is up to you, but I have a Bushy 3200 Elite 10x40 on my R9 and really like it.  It hasn't seen a lot of use yet, but so far, so good.  I also have an old Bushy 3-9x32 Scopechief (?), it's a $30 scope, has also seen springer service, and if it weren't for the duplex reticle, it would still be on a rifle instead of a shelf. 

Which brings me to the second thing I'm going to disagree with :-).  I've stopped drinking the "gotta have AO on an airgun" kool aid.  The Bushy on my R9 came set at 100 yards, I've readjusted it to about 35.  It's fuzzy at 10 yards, but clears up between 15 and 20, and is nice and sharp out to around 100.  This covers 95+% of all my shooting, whether hunting or targets.  And with fixed focus and fixed mag, it's truly point and shoot.  That Scopechief mentioned above is at least partly responsible for my shift to non-AO scopes, and has been replaced by a pair of 3-9x32 Centerpoints, 35 yard parallax, one for my Diana 34 and the other for my Gamo CFX.  Nice little scopes for the money, at minimum mag they're sharp at 10 yards or a bit less, and pretty forgiving of head position even at max mag.

Not so much a disagreement, more an observation, 30mm tubes MAY give a brighter sight picture, but they definitely add weight and length.  I've tried several 30's, in the price range most of us work in, the con's outweigh the pro's IMO.

My list of top 5 scopes, in no particular order:

Simmons 44 Mag, 6.5-20x44, AO, mil-dot, Phillipine made model (discontinued)
Bushnell Elite 3200, 10x40 mil-dot, sometimes listed as Elite Tactical
Burris Timberline, 4.5-14x32 AO, Ballistic Plex reticle, similar to a mil-dot
Bushnell Legend 5-15x40 AO, mil-dot (also discontinued)
Centerpoint 3-9x32, mil-dot, fixed 35 yard parallax

Had an MTC Viper 10x40 for awhile, nice scope, but big and heavy.  The most expensive scope I've owned to date.

I've also owned BSA, Nikko Stirling, and Hawke, all were good scopes, but nothing to write home about IMO.  As already stated, Leapers fell off my radar several years ago.  I've also always avoided Tasco and Barska, past experience with optical products from both companies put them on my don't buy list.  The all around best bang for the buck award may go to the Centerpoint 4-16x40 from Wally World, although I've never tried one on a springer.  Sorry this got so long winded, hope it helps.  Later.

Dave   

[AirScopes]

Daved, I don't know that we're disagreeing so much -- though even disagreement is fine. As I said, you do not need AO if you are shooting longer ranges. It will be important for most people shooting short ranges (10m) as the parallax will be way off and head positioning and holds can become over-critical. On some scopes it is possible to manually adjust fixed scopes and that can be handy for those who would like to do that, but it isn't for everyone. You might guess that some might end up purging their Nitrogen purged scopes, and others might either not have the mechanical interest, tools, or patience. Risk to damage and scratching for DIY on an expensive scope might mean sending it to the manufacturer at additional cost. AO is convenient for flexibility. It is also, as I believe my post suggests, important depending on what you do.

I agree completely about Leapers and BSA and Barska as the scopes I had in each case failed. As far as Centerpoint, I had completely opposite experiences with the two scopes I had ... one was descibed as a $10 scope in my previous response, and the other was inexpensive, but really a well-made and clear optic. I assume the contracts go to a low bidder these days for some models, but the huge difference didn't suggst to me that it was a quality line over-all. One BSA I had was good, and the other just stunk...milky and grainy and it was fixed, so I can't imaging what they were thinking.

Bushnell says different things depending on which tech you talk to. In 3 calls made during a month several months ago, I had 3 clearly differing opinions. I had one tech say they are all springer rated, another say that anything over 12x is springer rated, and another define specific scopes as springer rated (and that bears out in the descriptions). Most that they suggest are 'probably' fine on a springer are well outside the $200 price limit the original poster was looking at here. I choose to be conservative in my own ratings, as I do not want to recommend anything that someone will come back to me later and say "you recommended this, and it was pretty crummy!" Will other scopes that are not springer rated work? I am sure they will. In fact I am currently reviewing a Minox which fits that bill (although the bill for the scope is a bit outside what most will want to pay).

Simmons....It seems that there was a period of time that Simmons was formidable, but they took a turn at one point. Now there is a lot of counterfeiting and low-end models.

Plenty of newer manufactured scopes are going 30mm. I did suggest there is the possibility that there will be more light transmission, and it depends on a lot of things (e.g., quality of light transmission of the glass). It is just physics. I have had good luck with the 30mm scopes I have, and I think the weight is insignificant.

There are different scopes because there are different things people like and are willing to pay for. Most people look at optics and wonder why they'd want to pay a lot. Unlike scope-snob forums where it is often suggested that you shouldn't spend less than $300, I think there are good choices for way less. A typical vendor recommends more expensive models where profit is higher. In my experience with rifles and scopes, quality is not a 1-1 event.

Richard

[JonnyReb]

 Fantastic info guys, thanks so much.
 Great thoughts too on the use of non AO scopes set @35yards. After so many years of twisting its been a pleasure to point and shoot with the cheapy 4x centerpoint. I think that feature sure speeds up the possibilities when used as a hunting gun. Something to consider.

[bcshooter]

IMHO...Leapers,Centerpoint,Bushnell,BSA,Baraska and a few other manufacturers,which eludes me at this time, are competent scope manufacturers for the AirGun community. Due to exact tolerance issues, my own experiences, one out of ten scopes will be problematic. I guess its the luck of the draw. Warranty issues, Leapers and Centerpoint have the best turn around time for getting a new out to you, about ten days and Ten dollars plus cost of postage to them. Bushnell took the longest for me, 38 days to acknowledge me and responded the scope is defective and I will be getting a new one sent out, plus Ten dollars and return postage.
I have no issues with any of the other manufacturers I mentioned........Shoot Safe and Enjoy....Life is Sweet..Bill  

    

[AirScopes]

BC, Bushnell turn around time is AWFUL. Ever call them for tech support? In the 3 calls I made that one month, not only did I get 3 different opinions, but 3 hold times of 20 minutes or more before I talked to anyone. However, I can't knock what they will do for a customer once you get to them -- even if the information is contradictory.

[bcshooter]

Customer Service is extremely important to me, when I choose a company to buy from. I will sway away from any company who wishes to practice poor business sense, the customer is always right. In this poor economic time we should expect the best possible customer service practiced by every company we spend a dollar with.
Shoot Safe and Enjoy.....Bill

[daveshoot]

FWIW I have found the Hawke customer service and support to be among the best in any industry. You go right to a human, who has a clue, and wants to help.

[gene_sc]

FWIW I have found the Hawke customer service and support to be among the best in any industry. You go right to a human, who has a clue, and wants to help.

I have switched to Hawk Scopes at present. I must have at least a half dozen so far and not one issue yet. Good to know that the services they provide are great.

Thanks Dave