Webley Rebel .177 first impression + PICS

[Tdubya]

I read "ten.ring" (Mark) review from last November.  Here's my 2 cent worth.

First, the cocking is the toughest of any gun I have - that includes a Walther Talon Magnum! I haven't given it more than 5 pumps. I'm an old dude, but I lift weights and probably have more than average strength. So be warned. Unless you have "guns" for arms don't expect to be cocking this puppy to the max very often. Frankly, I considered sending it back for this reason alone. Oh, as Mark mentioned, there is no country of origin markings on the rifle. However, I did find what looked like Chinese writing on the inspection slip.

Cleaned the bore with goo gone. Not too dirty.

The gun does have very good fit and finish. The disappointments are the plastic breech and barrel shroud. Trigger is smooth, but a very long pull. Haven't fiddled with the adjustment much. But from Mark's comments, sounds like it's not worth it.
I like the bolt release mechanism and pellet feeding is pretty easy. You just use a rolling it in technique.

It did seem to have good power at only 2 pumps. So I got out the Beta Chrony and got a pleasant surprise.
I tried 2 pumps and 4 pumps.  Shooting Crosman Premier Hollow Points.

2 pumps      4 pumps
----------      ------------
509              656
502              675
499              678
512              681
518             
523
525
526
519
527

Pretty decent fps for only 2 pumps. Plenty for paper punching. And 4 pump fps is plenty for small pests.

A mounted a cheap Gamo 4x scope for accuracy test.  bench rested, 2 pump, 5 shot group @ 8 yards = 1/4 inch.
Not bad.  For $120 shipped, I'll keep it. 

Here's the pics:

[Millipede]

are you kidding me!?!?  Now i need one.

[Motorhead]

Overall profile looks very "Hatsan" like
Great performance from 2-4 pumps from a $120 rifle

Looks like a great mid range pneumatic indeed !

[GunnerAl]

I kind of like mine. I'd rate it about 5.5 out of 10 though. I mean it can be fun but all that pumping soon got to me (is it 8 pumps or 10 max - I can't remember?). I never tried it out for accuracy but one day I might. One thing that really got to me was the threaded barrel end is not concentric with the bore, meaning that anything that you may screw on there was an obstacle to the pellets, as they kept hitting the inside of it. I kept hearing a definite "ting" each time I fired it,, a definite alloy cannister sound,, and the fired pellets looked as though they were filed slightly flat on one side of the head. It didn't take more than about half a dozen shots to work it out, so I put another accessory on the end of the barrel, a shorter one with a larger exit hole and the sound was no more - I guess one and one equals two. That and the fact that you could actually see the misalignment once the appliance was fitted,, stood out like dogs things. The short fatter accessory made for a larger calibre set it right though and worked reall well - Dead Quiet..!! The quietest airgun I have ever fired...

Apart from that, it's a nice light rifle to sling around and if you like the moderate power, you might have a lot of fun with the Rebel. Even with a scope it was so light...

Personally, I'd say it was a rifle that I couldn't really take too seriously when surrounded by so many other rifles that I can, but, sometimes when it's "timeout" time, the Rebel may find its worthy place in the collection,, OR,, you could look at it as a fun rifle that is worth buying, if only for that very cheap pricetag..

[Tdubya]

GunnerAl, you are right about that end cap. It is off center. One side was very close to interfering with pellet exit. I'll probably drill mine out a bit.  The max pumps is supposed to be 8.  I think "ten.ring" said he got 800+ fps. That's pretty hot from an un-modded pumper. If you can pump it that many times!

Another small area of concern was the plastic barrel shroud. It's not composite like say a Gamo. It's plain plastic that could break if it took a good whack. And there is play between the shroud and barrel. The barrel seems well secured at both ends.
But there needs to be some shimming in between.  This is a definite candidate for a future teardown, inspection, and improvement.

[ev-in-az]

As soon as I got mine I installed a 4X scope, cleaned the barrel and started shooting. JSB 8.44 will shoot a ragged one hole group, Webley and Scott Accupells are also said to be a good pellet for this rifle. If you are a pumper fan this is one you should have.

[jrmoreau]

Anyone have suggestions for a brand/model cheap-ish scope to put on mine? The sites are terrible, but it does definitely shoot straight so I'd like to get a scope. Just don't want to over-do it. Thanks!

[cwlongshot]

Anyone have suggestions for a brand/model cheap-ish scope to put on mine? The sites are terrible, but it does definitely shoot straight so I'd like to get a scope. Just don't want to over-do it. Thanks!

Being its a pneumatic your not restricted to springer rated scopes.. Any pnd scope will do.. to save some $$ I suggest you look at at the Simmons Rimfire scopes.  For a place to buy, I have nad good service form Narchez.

CW

[jrmoreau]

Thanks!

[jrmoreau]

Anyone have suggestions for a brand/model cheap-ish scope to put on mine? The sites are terrible, but it does definitely shoot straight so I'd like to get a scope. Just don't want to over-do it. Thanks!

Being its a pneumatic your not restricted to springer rated scopes.. Any pnd scope will do.. to save some $$ I suggest you look at at the Simmons Rimfire scopes.  For a place to buy, I have nad good service form Narchez.

CW

thanks for the tip! I grabbed a Simmons 4x32 and I am absolutely driving tacks with my Webley Rebel!!!

[Novagun]

; The Webley Rebel.


 
After shooting the rifle for a good few shots I have come to know my rifle. It is really just cheap and nothing exceptional. That is a pity because as a cheap rifle it nearly makes the grade and would do so with just a little better attention to manufacturing detail. There is “Made in China” on the box but nothing on the rifle so I assume rifle and box are made in China. Curiously the name Sharp is moulded into the very poor quality rear sight. As a quality rifle it falls far short of the Webley of Birmingham brand but can not comment on the Webley/Hatsan rifles. It is not as good as the straight Hatsans. The Rebel is included in the Webley UK web site so they of England lay claim to it. The inescapable fact is that my genuine Sharp Innova of which the Rebel is a copy is simply much better.

The pumping action has eased a bit but the last pumps from 6 to eight take a bit of effort and the wood pump lever extension incorporating a hamster is worth its bother; every bit of it. Without the extra leverage it would be tiresome to pump up. The trigger is acceptable considering it is really just a dump valve and a technique can be developed to make it quite useable. There are no adjustments possible so you get what it is.

The bolt action and pellet loading port is irksome. Out of the box the loading port is far too narrow and was easily improved by some careful carving with a pocket knife. It is now much easier to get the pellet in and more room to turn it over when it ends up back to front, and it does far more often than it should. The opening of the port revealed another defect. Where the steel breach end of the barrel  insert lodges in the plastic breach block there is a slight ridge that trips the pellet as the bolt seats it. That ridge had a sharp edge that on closing the bolt decisively actually shaves a sliver off the head of the pellet. That of course had flow on effects with accuracy. I hasten to add that accuracy is nothing outstanding barely plinker acceptable. It could be that the major defect disguises a poor barrel; I can’t tell.

The ridge in the muzzle chopped out the o ring on the bolt end. I have chamfered the ridge with some improvement but it is still not good and pellets need to be seated home with care and sometimes using a seating probe instead of the bolt probe. I have altered the shape of the bolt probe in the hope of getting a better feed but that was not successful. I resorted to making new bolt with a different shaped probe and that has fixed the pellet feed. There is not much room to get a tool in for chamfering and I think the barrel is fixed in the plastic breach block and I suspect removing it would ruin the rifle. Maybe I have gone as far as I can with that part.

The scope dovetail is so far out of alignment that I had to shim the mounts sideways by about .8 mms to get it anything like true. 

The chamfering of the breach has made no improvement to the sealing of the bolt O ring and I  have tried  various seals and polishing to get an airtight seal. At present there is a draught in the face caused by the leak. I will keep messing about with it until success or exasperation, whichever comes first.  It is a very small rifle and without a stock extension would be a bit small for anyone of average size but it is light and manoeuvrable and quite short.

Power at eight pumps I guess to be about 12 ft lbs and that is plenty and pumping to ten seems to make no difference apart from stiffening up the trigger but it could increase power a bit but also increases effort required. The pumping is something to consider and really relegates the rifle to plinking.
The muzzle has a ½ inch UNF thread that allows screwing on various knobs on the end. I have experimented with various weights and several home made air strippers. None of these additions have turned the poor rifle into a poor mans' Steyr.  The good part of this is that I have been able to play with air strippers in an amateurish way and they do work on this rifle. Without one fitted accuracy of this rifle is noticeably less.

Value for money I think the Daisy 953 is far better; not as powerful but far more accurate and only one pump.

The telling questions_
1.   Would I buy another one? --- NO.
2.   Would I recommend that anyone should buy one? ----NO.

Quailification: If the defects were remedied in a new rifle out of the box then maybe yes. There is something about this little rifle that makes me like it but the prime requirement of accuracy is just not there.
 

[JonnyReb]

 Thanks VERY much for posting your thoughts on the rifle. I've almost ordered one several times but reveiws like yours have kept me from it, i love the basic lightweight platform but don't want poorly executed manufacturing..you've saved me money and aggravation from considering one yet again. Really do wish they made a solid and quality made version, it would quickly make a name for itself just like the original Sharp did. J

[ev-in-az]

Thanks VERY much for posting your thoughts on the rifle. I've almost ordered one several times but reveiws like yours have kept me from it, i love the basic lightweight platform but don't want poorly executed manufacturing..you've saved me money and aggravation from considering one yet again. Really do wish they made a solid and quality made version, it would quickly make a name for itself just like the original Sharp did. J

I must be lucky. both of my Webley Rebel rifles function well. They are both accurate with the right pellet. I'd rather shoot than tinker and both of these rifles have been good shooters with a barrel cleaning and  finding the right pellet. The  Sharp Innova is no longer around is because it was too expensive to produce. I wish the Chinese would make a wood and steel version of the the Sharp.

[JonnyReb]

  I'm with you there Ev, i too wish the chinese would make an updated pumper..wood and steel.. a copy of the Sharp would be great.  Just curious, are either of your rifles scoped?  If so, did you have trouble with scope alignment?  Thanks,  J.

[Novagun]

Now that is interesting that Ev has two Rebels that perform well. I know of only two others apart from mine in New Zealand and they both are not well regarded. By the same token I read of troubles with Hatsans in the USA that I have not experienced with mine. Maybe different batches are produced by different workers with different ability.
Sometimes I get as longing to meet and compare with you people in the USA but we a far away.

Anyway to continue the story: I made another bolt and have all but remedied the leaking breach. The other thing I did was jamb a 50mm, 2 inch strip of rubber between the plastic barrel outer tube and the compression tube there-under. It has put a curve in the plastic and may have taken out some vibration in the very loose fitting plastic tube. It may even have put some slight pressure on the inner steel tube. It seems to have improved accuracy but  am I not yet crowing with delight. A bit more testing needed. The other thing that crossed my mind was to drill a couple of holes in the barrel shrouding plastic and pour epoxy glue in to fill the void. That should lock the barrel components solid.

I can't reason if that would be a good or bad idea and perhaps only doing it will show one way or the other. 

[ev-in-az]

  I'm with you there Ev, i too wish the Chinese would make an updated pumper..wood and steel.. a copy of the Sharp would be great.  Just curious, are either of your rifles scoped?  If so, did you have trouble with scope alignment?  Thanks,  J.

Both of my rebels are scoped. Had to remove some material from the top of the breech so the rings would fit. No alignment issues. Have to be careful not to tighten too much. The Chinese do a good job with the QBXX rifles (all wood and metal) and they are priced reasonably -- I'm sure they could produce Innovas and price them reasonably too.

[ev-in-az]

Now that is interesting that Ev has two Rebels that perform well. I know of only two others apart from mine in New Zealand and they both are not well regarded. By the same token I read of troubles with Hatsans in the USA that I have not experienced with mine. Maybe different batches are produced by different workers with different ability.
Sometimes I get as longing to meet and compare with you people in the USA but we a far away.

Anyway to continue the story: I made another bolt and have all but remedied the leaking breach. The other thing I did was jamb a 50mm, 2 inch strip of rubber between the plastic barrel outer tube and the compression tube there-under. It has put a curve in the plastic and may have taken out some vibration in the very loose fitting plastic tube. It may even have put some slight pressure on the inner steel tube. It seems to have improved accuracy but  am I not yet crowing with delight. A bit more testing needed. The other thing that crossed my mind was to drill a couple of holes in the barrel shrouding plastic and pour epoxy glue in to fill the void. That should lock the barrel components solid.

I can't reason if that would be a good or bad idea and perhaps only doing it will show one way or the other.

I'm not always lucky. I have a high regard for IZH -- I've had an IZH46 pistol for years. But it took me three IZH 60 rifles to get one that functioned properly. As I have mentioned before, I like to shoot rather than tinker, although Crosman 1377s are always on my bench in pieces. Good luck with your Rebel, my .17 is a one holer with JSB 8.44 pellets.

[Dick Tracey]

Thanks VERY much for posting your thoughts on the rifle. I've almost ordered one several times but reveiws like yours have kept me from it, i love the basic lightweight platform but don't want poorly executed manufacturing..you've saved me money and aggravation from considering one yet again. Really do wish they made a solid and quality made version, it would quickly make a name for itself just like the original Sharp did. J

I must be lucky. both of my Webley Rebel rifles function well. They are both accurate with the right pellet. I'd rather shoot than tinker and both of these rifles have been good shooters with a barrel cleaning and  finding the right pellet. The  Sharp Innova is no longer around is because it was too expensive to produce. I wish the Chinese would make a wood and steel version of the the Sharp.

I agree with you also.  I have a .177 and a .22 Rebel which I reviewed on GTA.  I really like the rifles but the accuracy just isn't there.  It has flyers about every 5 shots.  I also purchased a .177 a Sharp Innoce Chinese copy and it has a cheap plastic stock but has about the same accuracy as the rebel.  I think if this was,cloned with wood stock and stell receiver and full steel barrel it would really be accurate.

As a side note: a real Sharp Innova from Japan went up on One of the auction sites with no reserve and it went for $550 if I recall corectly.  I quit bidding at $300.00 the extent of my budget.

DT

[lillysdad621]

so i guess that they are not worth the money when you can still pick up a benjamin for about 20 dollars more... that is a shame as i was looking for a cheaper pumper in  synthetic to throw in the truck... i hate taking wood stocked rifles and having them get banged up... what kind of accuracy are you getting at 20 to 25 yards??? i really wanted this guys to work... especially if is shot at reduced velocity and can group like the one all the way above... maybe anyone with a .22?

[DavidS]

Wow.  I think that I do want two (,177 and .22).    With the potential accuracy and definite power out of box those are good rifles, based on what is said here.

Now I want 1 Webley Rebel .177, 1 webley Rebel .22, 1 Crosman Benjiman 392, and 1 Crosman Benjiman 397 to round out my collection of MSP's .  Then I will just need 1 Daisy 953, and 1 Daisy 840 to round out the SSP's .

Also by cocking effort I assume you mean pumping effort?  MSP's are cocked by the bolt (at least all that I know of), and pumped up to pressure.