disadvantages of gas-rams

[darthsoul]

Planing to put vortex ram to 125 in order to reduce hold sensitivety but.. do they have any disadvantages over springs ?

[Hatsanman13]

Planing to put vortex ram to 125 in order to reduce hold sensitivity but.. do they have any disadvantages over springs ?

I have been shooting springer's now for over 30 years.  I purchased my Hatsan 135 .22 in March 2013 the first week.
I also helped a Friend purchase a gas springer Benj NP Trail. I broken both guns shortly there after. zero in the sites. The Gas Ram sited in with ease and in short order was placing lead on lead at 16 yards.  they both had Center Point scopes. The Hatsan with its 4x16 40m was also easily sited in.  They both shot great but the Beast was much more a power house. They both are .22 cal. as far as Holding on target if you keep on target Though the gun cycle you should shoot very tight groups with both.  The shooter is the Master of each shot the rifles are very consistant you find if you can sense you pulled your shot you did. if you can sense this you will.
You have to one with each shot to make them all count. I have found this to be true with all three springer rifles and one gas ram air rifle. Too keep your aim sharp at all times switch from paper to fine natural targets from cutting blades of grass to just poking hole in leaves.  Bees are fun also bugs all very tinyer the better it will teach you how to shoot accurately.  Paper gets boring  plinking is great fun. if you have colorful plastic coated thumb tacks are great at 20 yards.  keep them small and your group will shrink.

[Ahab]

Planing to put vortex ram to 125 in order to reduce hold sensitivety but.. do they have any disadvantages over springs ?

I see no disadvantages.

[Paul68]

Planing to put vortex ram to 125 in order to reduce hold sensitivety but.. do they have any disadvantages over springs ?

I see no disadvantages.

Depends on the gun and your intents, which pretty much goes for everyting in this hobby.

Most of the disadvantage comes if you tend to tinker.

Gas springs are not as flexible as springs, and not in a literal sense. With a gas spring, it is much more difficult to alter force and rates to "tune" your rifle. If you want to do this, you can either purchase an aftermarket gas spring that is "close" to the strength you'd like to use, or, purchase a ram with built in adjustability, which can often mean having to discharge gas, then recharge to bring pressure back up if you go too low. It isn't easy to charge a gas spring, and you need to be able to do it properly, which means more tools and more learning. Granted, once you have a ram that can be pressure adjusted and the ability to do it, you have a pretty nice bit of added versatility. But it costs more $$$$

With standard springs, you have a larger range of options for tuning, and they are cheaper and much more straightforward.

[darthsoul]

vortex rams are adjustable for max 150 bar, and i will have it at 150 bars in order to not to loose power. and i think only tune that i will make is deburing, lubing and changing piston seal.. does it have any disadvantages in terms of shooting and cocking cycle ? harder cocking force or more recoil etc ? cause i read that it should take the recoil reduce hold sensitivity and improve accuracy but i just want to be sure

[mtbdrew]

Not sure that the gas ram leads to less hold sensitivity especially in the high power ram. With the sharper/crisper recoils they tend to be more hold sensitive rather than less, at least in my experience. I've converted to gas rams for the noise reduction and have found no decrease in hold sensitivity at all.

[huklbery]

Disadvantage, gas spring is not progressive, its difficulty in cocking is constant where a mechanical spring starts easy and progressively gets more difficult.  That matches the human anatomy with a break barrel rifle.

Advantages gas springs can remain cocked, shot cycle is short and abrupt, No twist torque.

I like both, as the power goes up I prefer a conventional spring but past 15ftlbs I'll go a gas gun.   

[darthsoul]

Not sure that the gas ram leads to less hold sensitivity especially in the high power ram. With the sharper/crisper recoils they tend to be more hold sensitive rather than less, at least in my experience. I've converted to gas rams for the noise reduction and have found no decrease in hold sensitivity at all.

here is some bad news to me -.- my 125 is so "dang" hold sensitive, its sensitive even to joints in my hand 0.0 i just dont like this

[TOM aka critter99]

gas rams at high power tend to eat scopes ask any RX2 owner

[nced]

Planing to put vortex ram to 125 in order to reduce hold sensitivety but.. do they have any disadvantages over springs ?

Years ago I shot a Patriot and a Beeman Crow Magnum (Eliminator) and I had no probem cocking the Patriot, however the ergonomics of cocking the CM was a real "gut buster" for me. The untuned .25 Patriot I shot was putting out 30fpe with Diana domes which was greater than the .20 CM, yet the shot cycle of the Patriot was more to my liking than the "snap jerk" of the CM with the trigger squeeze.

Other issues I have with the "rammer" is that the cocking effort relative to the power output as greater, the rams DO occasionally leak and require the use of a high pressure pump to restore AFTER actually replacing the seals, assuming that the ram can be repaired at all (I believe that not all rams are "owner fixable". As mentioned previously, I really don't like the sharp shot cycle of the "rammer" relative to the coil spring powered gun that also make the "rammers" known "scope eaters".

Nope for ME I prefer a coil spring powered piston gun like my HW springers that can be home repaired relatively cheaply in less than a half hour if the spring "lets loose" along with easier cocking for power output and a softer shot cycle.

Just my PERSONAL opinion! 

[darthsoul]

i think i wont put a ram to 125.. it will make it worse

[Nikoman]

The only disadvantages I see with a gas ram vs. coiled springers is;
1. Cocking effort
2. Scope-eating

Those two problems can EASILY be remedied by simply turning down the ram (if the strut is a non-sealed unit and allows it).
The gas ram some nice advantages over traditional springs.
When properly pressurized they can be waaaaay smoother and the harsh recoil is nonexistent. I have an RX-1 charged with an inert gas at only 18-19fpe and it shoots as smooth as my R7. It never ate a scope and it never will, the shot cycle and cocking effort is pretty tame.

[Nathan]

There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. I don't think either one can be said to be "better" than the other. It will be interesting to see if the Hatsan gas rams that are ultimately released to the public are in fact user adjustable and repairable. My concern would be that owners would overpressurize the ram above the factory maximum in attempt to squeeze even more power out of the gun. This will lead to extra heavy cocking efforts, harsh firing cycles, burnt piston seals and even damaged guns. Any recoiling airgun, even a lower powered one, can break a scope not properly braced to handle the 2-way recoil form spring/gas ram guns.

Nathan

[Mpac]

To much pressure will end up bending cocking arm from what supertech said when tried a high volume gas ram.

[bbv13]

Not sure that the gas ram leads to less hold sensitivity especially in the high power ram. With the sharper/crisper recoils they tend to be more hold sensitive rather than less, at least in my experience. I've converted to gas rams for the noise reduction and have found no decrease in hold sensitivity at all.

here is some bad news to me -.- my 125 is so "dang" hold sensitive, its sensitive even to joints in my hand 0.0 i just don't like this

My H-135 shoots best with a open hand and almost no pressure with the trigger hand. Also make sure your not putting your cheek on the stock heavily. Lighten up the way you are holding the rifle. Your groups will tighten up and you will not feel it in your joints.

Bryan

[darthsoul]

im trying the artileryhold, thanks, i think i will get better in time

[bbv13]

I was taught to hold a rifle lightly but not as lightly as I have to hold my H-135. There's definitely a learning curve.

Bryan

[darthsoul]

absolutely.. i can say there is a big improvement in my shooting stances and accuracy in past 8 moths..

[SpringerMan]

gas rams at high power tend to eat scopes ask any RX2 owner

Buy HAWKE scopes. Excellent quality, Magnum-Springer rated, and a Lifetime Replacement Warranty.

[darthsoul]

sadly i dont want to spend all my money on a scope, i need to but a chrono too