Stands at the edge of the "Darkside" and asks ........

[Macky]

Thanks Jerry,

  Your explanation helped a bunch. That 388 fps @ 2900 totally threw me off. I already knew the sweet spot was in the 2000 range, but wanted to make sure I had all the curve to compare to, in regards to the o-ring mod.  Now that I know, with the stock spring, what to expect, I will shoot in that range making the 1/8 turn adjustments as you suggest. It may not be exactly what I want, without a heavier spring, It does give me more experience in terms of overall tuning of this gun. Question is, where did you you source your 10# spring ?

[FuzzyGrub]

FWIW: I measured the striker change.  One turn equals 0.040".  So, 1/8 turn is only 0.005".  But, these small changes, can make dramatic results.  I was seeing a change of one FPE per 1/8 turn within the range 14-20 FPE.  With your larger TP might even be more.  Once you get close, try even smaller increments.   Keeping the striker from moving, once you found the "sweet" spot, can be an issue. 

I got springs at local H/W.  You want one with same length and diameter, but one larger size in wire diameter.  Stock is 0.035", and next wire size was 0.040".

[FuzzyGrub]

  OK, did not think to do a tissue test.  Assuming the leak would be between the breech and air tube, would I lay the tissue over each side ? I did cut the poly maybe a 1/16" longer then stock TP. I just may have a leak there, as just before emergency tear down I was getting 730's @ 2000 psi.
 

Just lay the tissue over both sides at the same time. 

FWIW: I looked at the data from Airgun Artisian where he tested numerous transfer ports.  Anything larger than the .110" did not produce any significant gains.  You would probably have to do some porting or other mods to get any additional benefit. 

[Macky]

FWIW: I measured the striker change.  One turn equals 0.040".  So, 1/8 turn is only 0.005".  But, these small changes, can make dramatic results.  I was seeing a change of one FPE per 1/8 turn within the range 14-20 FPE.  With your larger TP might even be more.  Once you get close, try even smaller increments.   Keeping the striker from moving, once you found the "sweet" spot, can be an issue. 

I got springs at local H/W.  You want one with same length and diameter, but one larger size in wire diameter.  Stock is 0.035", and next wire size was 0.040".

  OK, did not think to do a tissue test.  Assuming the leak would be between the breech and air tube, would I lay the tissue over each side ? I did cut the poly maybe a 1/16" longer then stock TP. I just may have a leak there, as just before emergency tear down I was getting 730's @ 2000 psi.
 

Just lay the tissue over both sides at the same time. 

FWIW: I looked at the data from Airgun Artisian where he tested numerous transfer ports.  Anything larger than the .110" did not produce any significant gains.  You would probably have to do some porting or other mods to get any additional benefit.

  John,

  Thanks for all the help and excellent information. Tissue test Passed. But I think I will do a better job of making sure that each end is flat. I cut it quickly with an exacto knife, and then installed it. I recall a thread somewhere, about the numerous TP testing. I am sure that is the one.

[Macky]

  I woke up this morning dead set on dialing in the WW. First thing I did was try and give it more Preload. The spring guide became completely unthreaded again. Instead of a complete dis-assembly, I tried pushing inward slightly, and tried back threading it. Worked like a charm. I counted the total preload, and there is a total of 6 safe revolutions, 7 revs is where it becomes unthreaded. My plan was to shoot 8-10 shot strings, starting at about 2000 psi, to see what the peak velocity was. P=6 S=1 was the first sting. 2nd P=6 S=2, and third P=6 S=3 . The forth string was P=6 S=0.5, as the velocity seemed best at S=1. To complicate things, it was raining. Slight drizzle, but enough to warrant moving the chrony in and out, each string.

  It was then, I asked myself, why am I doing this ? I wasn't completely comfortable with the fact that I only had 1 rev of threads holding the spring  guide in place.  And because, with the o-ring mod, the preload is what sets the working pressure, I was not going to get any shot string over 2000 psi anyways. So I said to myself, "Self, You need a BIGGER spring." I got dressed, and went back to the local HW store where I got the o-rings from. No spring. I did, however pick a nylon bushing (splurged, it was $0.15) that just fit "inside" the tube end cap, only needing a ream to fit over the spring guide. I figured, if nothing else, I'd have a bit more to play with in terms of preload.

  I went to the next closest major city about 15 miles away. First store..... Nope, no springs at all. Second store, they had springs, but not the right ones I needed. Third store, BINGO.... I hit the jack pot. I got 2 more stock springs .035, two .045 springs that were 1 1/8" long (a bit long but thought I clip them if need be), and two .045 springs 3" long. Now I know those were WAY to long, but again figured I could make custom length as needed.

  With the new springs in pocket, I rushed home. I only had 20 minutes left before I had to go to work. Guess what I did ? Yup...... I installed the 1 1/8" x 0.045" spring. Pumped up to 2200, loaded two,  8 shot mags......... and shot over the chrony.  First shot - 755 fps. WOW. That's 20 fpe. Second shot 749. WHAT ? Third shot 744. gracious. Forth shot 738. Darn, 2200 wasn't enough for peak fps. Fifth 733....... gracious, 20 FPE, Sixth 728. gracious, 20 FPE, Seventh 721. Eighth 716, and this was all with P=0 S=0.5 ....... Can you tell I was excited Pft, weren't you when you got your first PCP. LOL

  Shots 9-16 are as follows.  710, 702, 696, 688, 681, 673, 664, 654. Ending pressure: 1400

  So you can pretty much guess what I'll be doing after I wake up in morning. I WILL empty that tin of 500 pellets, I opened almost 7 days ago.

  Going for a 2900 fill, shoot down to 4% of highest velocity, then start tuning the stroke for ES. More data to follow.


  Once again, thanks for all the help and information. I have read many times, threads like these. And have gained alot of knowledge from them.

  Cheers, Macky

[FuzzyGrub]

With the heavy spring, go to 3000 or 3100psi fill. 

[Macky]

With the heavy spring, go to 3000 or 3100psi fill.

  Thanks Fuzzy,

  I shot a bunch of strings this morning from 3000 down to 1800 for 24 shots. Seemed to work really well. I started out adjusting preload, then moved over to stroke. I think I am pretty close now. I even scoped up and shot a string down range to 37 yards. I will post the numbers later on tonight.

[mtsheron70]

Macky,

It is quite likely that there's some corrosion inside the tube too, especially if it's been fitted with a vinyl tube depinger.

next time you shoot it down to 1900, degas the tube, remove the fill valve end and have a peek.

If it's not too bad, give it a thorough clean with some white spirits, then a light touch of silicone grease on the corroded spots.  wipe off the grease so that there's just a hint of a smear left.  I use cloth wrapped around a wooden dowel to clean and lube inside the air cylinder.

Degas her off and do as Aussie stated.  Use a flashlight to look down the tube and see what exist.  Hopefully none will be found.

[BerkshireHunter]

Nice looking P-rod.

[Macky]

Macky,

It is quite likely that there's some corrosion inside the tube too, especially if it's been fitted with a vinyl tube depinger.

next time you shoot it down to 1900, degas the tube, remove the fill valve end and have a peek.

If it's not too bad, give it a thorough clean with some white spirits, then a light touch of silicone grease on the corroded spots.  wipe off the grease so that there's just a hint of a smear left.  I use cloth wrapped around a wooden dowel to clean and lube inside the air cylinder.

Degas her off and do as Aussie stated.  Use a flashlight to look down the tube and see what exist.  Hopefully none will be found.

  Opening up the internals of the air tube was one of the first thing I did, and everything looked ok.

[Macky]

Nice looking P-rod.

  Thank you ! After just a short week and about 500 pellets, I'd like to think it's shooting pretty well now too ! I have been modding and tuning all week with the help of all the above GTA members ! Stay tuned, latest chrony results and preliminary accuracy tests to follow.

[Macky]

 I spent the morning shooting five 24 shot strings, adjusting the Preload and Stroke. I did have one "oops". My attempt at cocking failed, and ended up loading 2 pellets. I think I am pretty close, with maybe a bit more adjusting. Having the numbers in front you, really shows you what a little adjustment can do.

  I also took the first chance at accuracy. Mind you, set up was less then perfect. The main goal was sighting in the scope, for potential pesting. I used Chairgun to optimize my zeros, and used the given 37 yards as my test. I shot three, 8 shot strings. First one was for zeroing, then let loose on the last two. "Let Loose" is a good word to describe it, lol. It can only get better.......... I hope !

  Comments Welcome ! Jerry

[FuzzyGrub]

Now you have some strings.  Not sure of your goals, but to get a flatter 24 shots, need to turn down the stroke, to get to around 16FPE, try one turn stroke.   2400 psi looks like the midpoint.  Adjust while at that pressure.

[Macky]

  So I have taken a little break from tuning my P-Rod WW, just to enjoy shooting it. There are a few more sets of strings I want to document, but over all I now have a better understanding of what the adjustments do, to the over all shot string.  I think I am quite happy with the current settings, and output.

  This gun came with a Red Dot Scope, which I never mounted. I would think it's geared more towards the pistol  then the carbine setup. It also came with a 3-9x32 AO, which was ok, but because of the small tube, and not so great glass, my field of view through the scope was too small. The outer portion of the glass was also fuzzy, and seemed out of focus. Because my springer hasn't seen use since the new PCP, I decided to "borrow" it's glass. The scope is a Leapers Accushot 3-12x44 AO long version. I know it's a bit long for the Woods Walker, but I like this scope a lot better.

  Last summer, I machined a piece of 1 1/2" PVC pipe to fit the scope and sort of "snap" onto the camera I currently have. It's held onto the scope by way of hose clamp. It worked last summer, as a proof of concept, but the springer overwhelmed the whole setup, and I abandoned it. Fortunately, I was able to find the PVC adapter under the snow of my shooting bench, and remount and test it with the WW. I really need an extra long cantilevered 3/8" to Weaver rail, so that I can move the scope ahead, when scope cam shooting.  I made a couple videos, however my goto laptop is not up to the video editing challenge it once was. So it might be a few days before I can post any video. But here is my current setup as is, so far.

[FuzzyGrub]

I have that same Leapers 3-12x44AO on my Mrod .25 and happy so far.    That smaller scope looks like a Leapers Bug Buster.  I'd contact Leapers.  They might exchage it even though you weren't the original owner.  Worth the price of an email to try, anyway.