Choosing: Remington NPSS vs. Benjamin Trail AW

[92869]

Summary:
I had bought a Benjamin Trail AW and found it was only putting out 590fps with CPHP pellets when the average was 700-750fps.  Dealer, retailer and other forum members all felt this was very low and likely a problem that would get worse so I decided to return it.  Both the dealer and the manufacturer were out of stock so an exchange was not readily possible.  Looked at options for a different model and decided upon a Remington NPSS.

The Benjamin appeared very robust and well made and came with some desirable features like a picatinny rail for the scope, a sling and an all weather stock. The gun was very accurate, a job made easier with the very nice Center Pointe 3 X 9 scope. My only negative comments, other than the low velocity/power issue, was the gun seemed heavy and it was hard to develop a comfortable and steady grip.

When the Remington arrived I took it out the box and my first impression was that it was not as stout as the Benjamin and perhaps even a bit cheaper looking.  Shouldering the gun it felt smaller in every dimension and lighter too.  A side by side comparison showed the two guns were actually very close in size but weighing both on my shipping scale showed a difference in weight, the Benjamin came in at 7lbs 15oz and the Remington at 6lbs 14oz.  The Remington felt more than a pound lighter, perhaps due to the rounded edges of the stock or maybe better weight distribution.  Myself and three family members each took turns shouldering the gun and each had the same comment: It feels good, easy to hold comfortably and stay on target. The rubber cheek piece felt better on my face than the hard plastic of the Benjamin, and it's even adjustable!  Shooting the gun helped me to conclude I had made the right choice. Even with the stock trigger I was able to shoot accurately and consistently, of course I ordered one of Charlie da Tuna triggers anyway. The cocking of the barrel seemed smoother and the gun sounded more "crisp" when shot.  Having read and seen pictures of both guns disassembled it's clear the Remington is a more refined specimen.  Chronograph showed the Remington was averaging 727fps with the CPHP pellets right where I would have expected it to be and a standard deviation below 5fps. Shooting at paper at a distance of 30 feet I was (or I should say the gun was) putting shots in cloverleaf patterns. 

Conclusion:
After my initial reservations, the Remington in my opinion looked better, felt better, is better built, easier to shoot accurately and as an added bonus is made in the USA.  I'm sure some of the parts are imported but Crosman assured me that most were made here and the gun is assembled here. They also say it is a goal of Crosman to manufacture whenever possible here in the USA.  To me that matters.  Both guns are great shooters and a terrific value, but I have to say for the extra $70 the Remington has the edge in each category.

[MichaelM]

After working on both guns and even though I am not a fan of the NPSS's stock... I would choose the NPSS as well

It has an amazing build quality on the internals!!

[oldpink]

MichaelM, for what it's worth, there is an inexpensive option for the stock, since you don't like it as it comes.
The stock for the Crosman (Remington?) Legend is a non-thumbhole type of stock that is a drop in replacement that you can order directly from Crosman for a very reasonable price.

[Perry]

The Benjamin legacy stock is a drop in fit but Crosman hasn't made the gun in years and has none of the stocks left in their factory. I already asked :-(

[oldpink]

Doh!
Looks as if you will need to track down someone with a junker to cannibalize the stock from it.

[Norm_m]

I know this question has been ask several times but as I am in the market for either a Remington NPSS or a Benjamin Trail NP XL 1500 or the Laminated stock model and need a little help in making a decision. There seems to be many good features about both and would like comments and suggestions on the following question:
1 - Seeing that the Benji has a 4" longer barrel how much effect does that have on velocity and accuracy?
2 - I am planning on using the one I select for a little pest control (30 yrds. max) and mostly target shooting so would you suggest the .177 or the .22. I am leading for the .177 but would like your comment on which and why?
3 - Not being a fan on composite stocks has me leaning for the Benji but by the sounds of many of the post the quality of the construction of the NPSS is better. So does anyone know of a wood stock replacement for the NPSS that is available for a direct drop in replacement? (other than the Benjamin legacy)
4 - The trigger on either is not a problem as I think I would upgrade anyway
5 - They both say 70% less noise but which one is actually the quietest?
6 - Which one has the worse history of mechanical problems?
7 - Which one is the easiest to disassemble if and when it needs to be taken apart to check or replace things like piston seals?
Any other comments or suggestions are welcomed. The cost between the two is not an issue as I just want to try and get something that will make me happy and not have wished I had chosen the other. Made in the USA is also a big plus!
Thanks for any help you can send alomg
Norm

[daveshoot]

I went through the same decision. For once, I was not on the bleeding edge of technology- I waited and watched reviews of the nitro pistons for a while.

I chose the Remington NPSS and I am happy that I did. Not having owned both, I can't answer all the questions...

The longer barrel won't change velocity, or could have a slight negative effect due to drag. On springers, it's been pretty well proven that max velocity is obtained in the first 13" or less. Everything else is just drag. The only possible way it could help with accuracy is by providing a longer sight radius for iron sights, but that is not a factor with the NPs. The longer barrel does provide more leverage for cocking, but that's about it.

I prefer .22 for greater resistance to crosswinds, and a little more foot-poundage on target. However I have done plenty of ground squirrel pesting with .177 and it works! You do get the advantage of flatter trajectory, but I don't think it outweighs the benefit of the heavier slug.

Haven't heard both shoot, but the NPSS is reasonably quiet. It isn't even close to the Marauder, but reduces the telltale "splat" acceptably. Both rifles have pretty much the same muffler so I would expect them to be similar.

Reading here and elsewhere, the Remington has the best history in terms of out of the box problems. It is not immune, but seems to get fewer trouble posts. To be fair, I think they have sold a lot more of the Chinese versions due to price. But those who know, and have been inside both, speak highly of the Remington's finish work and construction.

I have been very happy with performance of the Remington NPSS, although I only have about 300 shots through it so far.

[Perry]

I have had 3 Trail NP's and had to return them for different reasons. I replaced them with 2 NPSS's and am very pleased with the power and accuracy of the Remington. It is quiet, has almost 20 FPE and is easy to work on. Good luck with your decision.

[92869]

Norm_m  here are my opinions:

I know this question has been ask several times but as I am in the market for either a Remington NPSS or a Benjamin Trail NP XL 1500 or the Laminated stock model and need a little help in making a decision. There seems to be many good features about both and would like comments and suggestions on the following question:
1 - Seeing that the Benji has a 4" longer barrel how much effect does that have on velocity and accuracy? Doubt it would effect velocity like a firearm burning powder and I think most of these airguns with the right pellet are more accurate than the shooter anyway
2 - I am planning on using the one I select for a little pest control (30 yrds. max) and mostly target shooting so would you suggest the .177 or the .22. I am leading for the .177 but would like your comment on which and why? I favor the .22 for heavier weight which should translate to more energy, even taking into consideration the reduced velocity.
3 - Not being a fan on composite stocks has me leaning for the Benji but by the sounds of many of the post the quality of the construction of the NPSS is better. So does anyone know of a wood stock replacement for the NPSS that is available for a direct drop in replacement? (other than the Benjamin legacy) Just curious, why does wood appeal to you?  Are you buying this airgun to look at or shoot?
4 - The trigger on either is not a problem as I think I would upgrade anyway  Agreed.
5 - They both say 70% less noise but which one is actually the quietest?  IMHO about the same.
6 - Which one has the worse history of mechanical problems?  Appears others have already answered this, I can only add that my Trail had to go back too.
7 - Which one is the easiest to disassemble if and when it needs to be taken apart to check or replace things like piston seals?  No experience here, but suspect they are almost identical in ease of disassembly.
Any other comments or suggestions are welcomed. The cost between the two is not an issue as I just want to try and get something that will make me happy and not have wished I had chosen the other. Made in the USA is also a big plus! I agree 100% here as well!

[Alan]

Maybe consider a Crosman Venom NP?  Check this thread by the Gene-meister...

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,3693.0.html

[daveshoot]

Just an update- fired close to another 100 shots today, and chronied a few. This Rem NPSS .22 is still averaging around 735-729 over 10 shot strings with CPHPs and Beeman FTS. There is certainly no problem in the power department. I just don't need more than this for anything I plan to shoot.

I do think there is some room for improvement in the accuracy. It's not bad at all, but I still want to get at the crown and also check the pivot pin. Both of its favorite pellets are stringing a little, from low left to high right. The groups are plenty good enough for 25 yard head shots but I suspect something can be tightened up.

[Norm_m]

Thanks to all with the very helpful information. Looks like it will be a Remington NPSS .22 which I just ordered

Thanks
Norm

[daveshoot]

Congratulations! Let us know how it works out when it arrives.

[zzyzx]

"The stock for the Crosman (Remington?) Legend"

I have done some internet searches and can't come up with this rifle. A link or where I can find more about this stock?

[cole5169]

I think he meant the Benjamin Legacy...

[Norm_m]

Anyone have any idea where I could find a Benjamin Legacy walnut stock that would be a drop in fit for my Remington NPSS? I have a NPSS going soon and would love a walnut stock for it

[Norm_m]

Received my 22 NPSS today and after cleaning the barrel and mounting the scope to the basement we went. I only have 10 yards and after about 50 shots I did manage a couple of 3/8" 3 shoot groups. I know everyone has said how bad the trigger was but it is worse than that! I did have plans of getting a CBR trigger but wanted to wait to see what the factory one was like. Is there a better trigger then the CBR? I also want to check the crown, so if someone could explain to me how to remove the shroud would be appreciated. Also will be replacing the 2 nylon breech spacer washers with brass ones while I have the shroud of.
No smoke coming out of the barrel and will be checking the velocity as soon as my chrony arrives.

Thanks to everyone on your help in choosing the 22 NPSS

[gene_sc]

MichaelM, for what it's worth, there is an inexpensive option for the stock, since you don't like it as it comes.
The stock for the Crosman (Remington?) Legend is a non-thumbhole type of stock that is a drop in replacement that you can order directly from Crosman for a very reasonable price.

Never heard of a Crosman Remington Legend. Did a search and zilch.

[oldpink]

MichaelM, for what it's worth, there is an inexpensive option for the stock, since you don't like it as it comes.
The stock for the Crosman (Remington?) Legend is a non-thumbhole type of stock that is a drop in replacement that you can order directly from Crosman for a very reasonable price.

Never heard of a Crosman Remington Legend. Did a search and zilch.

Yeah, sorry about that.
Wasn't it sold under the Benjamin brand?
I know it was a Crosman product, but Crosman seems to have a quirk of labeling their more upscale airguns under either the Benjamin or Remington label.

[gene_sc]

I was under the impression and may be wrong but the old Crosman Legacy stocks had same bolt maunting patern as new NPSS air guns. Not the new synthetic Legacy's but the older wooden stock Legacy's.. There may be other but not aware of it.