Crosman doomsday bugout kit

[Qjay]

lol, awesome!

I'm glad to have helped!

You know, I have a closet of "real guns" and several cheapo airguns now.
I'm looking forward to picking up a couple of these, just for fun!

People do love the kits, too.

[wwonka]

If the Federal Government ever tried to ban firearms, it would lead to another civil war. Every person who owned a gun and was passionate about keeping it would take up arms. We're talking about an actual, honest-to-goodness scenario where many people would grab their guns and run. Think about it; how many people do you know that own firearms would simply let the Feds walk into their homes and take them?

After the 1996 Port Arthur "disaster" in Australia, their government responded to majority public opinion with stringently enforced new gun laws, and a lot of guns were actually returned by the owners. In Australia at the time (and still) there is a fraction (less than majority) of the population that is very attached to their guns. I might have missed the news, but I don't remember the suburbs and cities of Australia being set on fire after this, or bloated corpses of men, women and children choking the sidewalks from the civil war.

This is a democracy (more or less). If a time comes in this country when gun laws change it will be because elected members of Congress have passed laws. That's the way it works. If you want certain laws, then work democratically for them. If we don't like laws that get passed, we get off our a--es and try to have the laws changed. What you don't do is pick up a gun and threaten civil war. In practical terms, having well-armed paranoid sociopaths threatening war inside the borders of a country is only more likely to get the kind of laws passed that will disarm them anyway. And good luck with the AR-15, 10/22, Gamo Whisper and the bugout kit against Apache Helicopters and Strykers.

If you want to see what a civil war looks like, check out Syria. Even though there is no NRA there, and Syria is an actual real dictatorship, somehow - when the war broke out - EVERYONE had all the small arms, heavy machine guns and bullets that they could handle. There wasn't some guy in Damascus thinking "wow, I was smart to have ordered that Crosman bugout kit off Amazon 2 years ago", or "thank god I stockpiled five .223s and a Sam Yang, because where-oh-where would I get a gun now that my house is rubble and the only two things EVERYONE now has are guns and bullets?" Real civil war is stinking, heartbreaking, no-holds-barred he-l on earth, not some Tom Sawyer/Red Dawn PG-13 fantasy, or some idle threat to be made on forums.

There are lots of amendments to the US Constitution that have been already been warped (or "re-interpreted" if you want to be polite) - including your right not to be tortured, not to be assassinated by your own government, not to be imprisoned without trial, not to have your possessions searched without a warrant. I could go on, but you get the point.  I must have either missed the refreshing civil wars that happened after these - or maybe sane people just keep trying their level best to influence or change the laws in ways that don't involve threatening to set the country on fire.

So, get the bugout kits and enjoy them. It's a free country and there's no harm in them for sane people just having fun. But just realise that if you're not having fun with it already, the joke is on you - and Amazon/Walmart/etc are just laughing to the bank.

[lillysdad621]

 And good luck with the AR-15, 10/22, Gamo Whisper and the bugout kit against Apache Helicopters and Strykers.

... the only difference is that most civil wars are not open wars, but more guerrila warfare... think shining path, Farc, etc... so no amount of apache helicopter will mitigate the will of the people... dude, where have you been in the pass 12 years?. I have seen an iraqi fending off a squad of Army soldiers to the point of calling a light artillery strike... you know what the guy had? 1 beat-to-@$%^ AK. but his family was there... so he would defend til the end. We have been trying to control and impose our will on people that do not want us there... open the paper, they are not any weaker now than before we dropped the hammer of god on them... If it was not a "threat" considered valid by the government, why are we still holding to our stockpiles? As you said, they did it in Australia... what is the difference? the fact that there is over 300 million privately owned weapons in this country with (as per the last poll 43% of the population) willing to hold and defend them. I'll even give you some really good odds, lets say only 10% of that 47% decides that the government has "gone too far"... that is over 20 million people disagreeing... even with all the quorum of the entire defense system (of which some will not turn on their people) they would be out numbered so much that it would be a asinine thing to go head to head... but worse, as i said it would not be a symmetrical engagement, but more like a lot of warring factions slowly chipping away at the defense infrastracture... it would be a war of attrition and at the end the government would have two options, capitulate and try to save the thing they need to exist (us) or dramatically lower the number of people who will by force listen to them... its a loose/ loose situation. As per the Doom day kit... if you think that there are people who will try to use that as defense, you are missing the boat... if anything it can hunt and provide with game to support you in addition to what you should have already stockpiled. Nope... there is a place for the bugout kit in that scenario... cheap, quiet and easily concealeable hunting gear for small game.

 including your right not to be tortured, not to be assassinated by your own government, not to be imprisoned without trial, not to have your possessions searched without a warrant...

Because you dont know about it it does not mean it does not happen. From the invention of gun powder, guns have been a tool of change, quick change where democracy has failed. Not one conflict has occured because two sides agreed too much. The fact that you dont think people will react to something like a forced disarmament leads me to think that you believe that all humans are sheep... no sir, Kuwait showed me different. We are 2 meals away from a really ugly situation, a situation that no government can control... guns are just the topping on that cake.

[wwonka]

Seems you got two wrong lessons: one, what I am saying in my original post, two from your experience (maybe) in Iraq.

1) read my post again (or don't).

2) About Iraq. I think that you draw the wrong lesson from that experience. The reason they beat all the Apaches and Strykers is that it is their country.  To them, you were just a tourist in desert camouflage with a gun.  If you think that experience in Iraq translates to mean that a merry band of paranoid sociopaths with guns is going to be able to impose their will here in the US, against all the other people here in the US (all armed Americans, in our own neighbourhoods, with nowhere else to go) - and this will have some kind of "happy ending" - then you don't know what a civil war is.  Stay tuned, you might still get to witness a real civil war in Iraq too.

I have lived in a civil war.  When I was a child we would turn the lights off in the house because of nightly aerial bombing raids. We woke up one morning to find the neighbour's house a pile of rubble, and all we ever found was a foot. My father worked to document the atrocities, and I remember sneaking into his office and finding his folders full of obscene photos of war crimes that I cannot un-see as much as I wish I could now. So, when I hear people who think that war is like a movie (or even an 18-month tour in Iraq) throwing around talk about civil wars and "taking on the government" - I laugh

[woodbutcher]

Think about it; how many people do you know that own firearms would simply let the Feds walk into their homes and take them?

YOU ARE WRONG ! Look up youtube and Katrina gun confiscation. You will be flat out amazed. They took guns from all home owners if they were involved in the flood or not. Do the research. It's already been tested and done successfully.

[woodbutcher]

I hate to be so blunt but:
 Do you believe your NRA?  :

So keep your BugOut hid...

[Stickstoff]

...keep your bugout where they can find it, keep your guns hid.

[lillysdad621]

 some people are really not worth it...

happy Fourth to you all...

[David Powell]

I picked up a bug out kit at Dick's for $47 + tax last Sunday. They had two,I should have bought both of them. 




=

[mav72]

You practically got it for half price... You should have bought both.. 

[Qjay]

Ours arrived a few weeks ago, and we have had an absolute blast shooting these. They are reasonably accurate, fun to shoot, and relatively easy to pump to 10 shots. The only thing I don't care for is the stocks seem to be a little loose, but they are plastic that just slides into place and is held with a pin.

[mav72]

Some people shim the stock with tape or drill a hole on both sides so they can use the preexisting screw holes on the trigger assembly... If you put srews, it defeats the option of a quick takedown..

[Qjay]

I had actually already been thinking about both of those options, but I came across some beautiful wood today that my lovely wife insisted we buy (garage sale, and they were thrilled it would get used for ANYTHING) so I am going to try to make a nicer stock in the long run. In the shirt run, Imma tape one, and if it needs more, then I'll drill. Just because they're there, doesn't mean they have to be used.

We are seriously looking at the Steel breech for these, she has discovered the joys of having a decent scope on one of my other air rifles. 

[bubba zanetti]

And good luck with the AR-15, 10/22, Gamo Whisper and the bugout kit against Apache Helicopters and Strykers.

... the only difference is that most civil wars are not open wars, but more guerrila warfare... think shining path, Farc, etc... so no amount of apache helicopter will mitigate the will of the people... dude, where have you been in the pass 12 years?. I have seen an iraqi fending off a squad of Army soldiers to the point of calling a light artillery strike... you know what the guy had? 1 beat-to-@$%^ AK. but his family was there... so he would defend til the end. We have been trying to control and impose our will on people that do not want us there... open the paper, they are not any weaker now than before we dropped the hammer of god on them... If it was not a "threat" considered valid by the government, why are we still holding to our stockpiles? As you said, they did it in Australia... what is the difference? the fact that there is over 300 million privately owned weapons in this country with (as per the last poll 43% of the population) willing to hold and defend them. I'll even give you some really good odds, lets say only 10% of that 47% decides that the government has "gone too far"... that is over 20 million people disagreeing... even with all the quorum of the entire defense system (of which some will not turn on their people) they would be out numbered so much that it would be a asinine thing to go head to head... but worse, as i said it would not be a symmetrical engagement, but more like a lot of warring factions slowly chipping away at the defense infrastracture... it would be a war of attrition and at the end the government would have two options, capitulate and try to save the thing they need to exist (us) or dramatically lower the number of people who will by force listen to them... its a loose/ loose situation. As per the Doom day kit... if you think that there are people who will try to use that as defense, you are missing the boat... if anything it can hunt and provide with game to support you in addition to what you should have already stockpiled. Nope... there is a place for the bugout kit in that scenario... cheap, quiet and easily concealeable hunting gear for small game.

 including your right not to be tortured, not to be assassinated by your own government, not to be imprisoned without trial, not to have your possessions searched without a warrant...

Because you dont know about it it does not mean it does not happen. From the invention of gun powder, guns have been a tool of change, quick change where democracy has failed. Not one conflict has occured because two sides agreed too much. The fact that you dont think people will react to something like a forced disarmament leads me to think that you believe that all humans are sheep... no sir, Kuwait showed me different. We are 2 meals away from a really ugly situation, a situation that no government can control... guns are just the topping on that cake.

Gabe:

Just to point out, Sendero Luminoso and FARC have/ had heavy funding and support from the local cartels. Mix that in with governments that are so ineffective and corrupt it’s no wonder those groups were hard to root out. In addition, SL and FARC terrorized the local native populations by summary executions and other abuses, thus making it not a very healthy choice to notify the Columbian Army or Peruvian Military to drop in and say "hello" to the local guerillas. In short, not a very good analogy to use in this discussion. We have factors as a culture and nation that are nothing like the issues that face Latin American nations. Same can be said about Kuwait as well...you have been there and that culture is so vastly different on certain levels and their reasons for fighting those governments are so different than this issues we face as a nation.

With that said, what we really face in the country is a war of ideas at the moment. What scares me is not the boogeyman Federal government that many like to say is hiding in the bushes and waiting to ponce, but what is REALLY scary is how certain ideologies in this country are trying to say they have the "purest" ideology, the most right, the most accurate and all others do not measure up. Add to that, people eat it up as historical truth, even though any history book will show you each ideology has never been pure because ideological purity doesn't exist, the issues plaguing 1920's-30's America. Do we have Prohibition? Nope, an item of the times that was building for about 40 years before its passage and has been dying out since it being repealed.

This search for ideological purity is what should scare us all, regardless of our ideologies. Suppression of freedom starts with ideas. Ideas that a person or groups of people begin to share with us all. They are somewhat easy to spot. They discuss current problems and make vague references to our country's past hero's and what those hero's believed and what they believe are the same or similar. They promise a little bit too every ideology since they have the purest ideology all will benefit from their pure ideas. They talk about the glory days of a nation and the greatness they can bring back under their pure ideology. As a side note, the glory days are a lie. What was a glory day for you wasn't for someone else...Many think 1950's America was a great glory day. Yeah, maybe for you, but ask a black man or women you know who lived back then if it was the glory days and I am pretty sure they had a different experience. But examples like that will be washed under the rug by the pure ideology party because that simply won't happen under their leadership as again, the pure ideology benefits all! That's crazy talk someone is left out!? Oh, and if they are left out it’s because THEY fail to understand the pure ideology. Which now leads us to the question for the populace. You know what we stand for says the pure ideology party, now the power is in your hands! We have the candidates, get those grass roots voters to the poles and vote us in and we will solve these problems together. After all, we stand for the same values, we stand for the same rights and we stand together in the same history.
Alas! the pure ideology party wins and low and behold some promises are kept, some things are made better  and oddly the government is not dissolved but "made better" as the pure ideological party purges those that are less pure with great endorsement from much of the populace from certain high government positions. One day, the leaders voted in give their State of the Nation speech and low and behold they say there are dissenters in the ranks of our great nation trying to destroy the fabric of what we were founded upon! They call on the voters again to assist in rooting out these dissenters and unbelievers whom are trying to spread lies against the pure ideology party. In fact, the speech will sound something like this:

 "Isn't it right reason to flush this kind of thinking from us my fellow true believers? Clearly they do not understand our government! So we are enacting a new amendment to only the true believers that voted for us and believe the pure ideology to share in our government! All others will have these rights revoked as listed in the amendments. Is it not logical that if they don't understand these amendments as we do, they should not partake in them!? Therefore, pick up your arms, use your rights to stamp this thinking out! You know who these people are! You see their newspapers, on-line blogs, radio shows and the like, even your next door neighbor who works at the local bureaucracy. If stopped by local law enforcement while cleaning out these un-believers please present your voter registration card. This will clear you to continue your good work in the name of the Republic...our country is in grave danger and we need your help as never before my pure thinking citizens and by the emergency approval of the senate and congress I will be signing this amendment tonight so we can start our good work effective immediately. Now get out there and help make this country great again”!

When our freedoms are taken, it will be voted in legally and like my example above, will fit the culture the fascist regime builds itself around. These people are not dumb, they will use the populace’s presuppositions to achieve their goals. The imagery of concentration camps and the Einsatsgruppen following the Blitzkrieg are burned into Western cultures psyche so the smart leader or party doesn’t use that method. As the example, in our country a leader or party would let the populace do the dirty work for them. That way when the world condemns them they stand behind there speech stating, “This is all legal! We were voted in legally, the amendment was passed legally and the voters are speaking for themselves! We are a democracy and the voters are speaking with their arms as allowed under the amendments they enjoy …back off of us and our nation as we are making it great again”!

I close with no matter what ideology you subscribe to, when it is presented in a beautiful, perfect, museum piece sort of way your ears and mind should perk up because in the glorious dirty work of living, believing in alleged pure political perfectibility starts with trying to force people into a mold, then into a prison (of some kind) and then into a grave, or in the past into an oven.

BZ

[lillysdad621]

BZ... i like your rethoric, but please be aware that the SL was not funded by drug cartels, as Peru at the time had a heavy export hand with little control from the government. Abimael Guzman, the now incarcerated leader was an ideologist and coming from the populace he essentially just directed the dissent created by the then corrupt government. Peru had a crazy problem with government corruption, and most of the riches of the country were funneled out. That is the reason that the Sendero Luminoso existed... to give a little louder voice to the people. It was a strictly econo-political movement, very poor, and used only crude acts of terrorism AIMED at the establishment. The average Joe (or Jose) had nothing to fear, as recruitment was voluntary (and poor, hungry people will join a movement that wants change). They bombed embassies at night, power facilities, police facilities and such... they created damage to structure as it was what the governement used as infrastructure. There were no summary executions (unless you were a politician, and therefore deemed a traitor...) and it lasted as long as it did because the people wanted it there... I have family in Peru, and lived in Lima for a while witnessing some of the troubles, but were not fed by cartels, or drug money. Most of the money came from kidnappings, robberies and such. My mother was in college when the SL was a his strongest, and more than once she had to sit in class for hours listening to the theories and ideologies from the SL, as they held the teacher under a gun and gave their speech... no one hurt as long as they had heir time there... most of the times no one was aware til they were gone... they would go into the political science faculty part of the Universidad de Lima and smash ballot boxes to sabotage internal or minor elections, and such. I am not justifying their actions, but don't believe for an instant that these groups are just thugs looking for a power for the sake of greed... The Farc in the other hand knew that the drug cartels had the money, so they volunteered to cause problems to the police and government in behalf of the drug trade. It was a symbiotic relationship in which the cartels used the Farc to their ends as a side agenda of the Farc itself, while the Farc could always count on a blank check to wage war on the Colombian Government. They were a lot more ruthless but it was done on purpose as the cartels always prefered someone who could "deliver a message"... The recruiting was also done not only in Colombia, but they came to Venezuela to hire mercenary (ex or even presently serving military personel). I remember that crisis while living in Caracas, Venezuela. Kuwait is a bit different, in my eyes, because it became personal... not political at all. You cant expect to walk into someone's house and make rules like you are the deed holder... lots of pride involved...

[bubba zanetti]

Gabe brother, you sure SL didn't get funding from the cartels? I don't have my resources in front of me but my memory is pretty good (usually) when it comes to the history books I read and I thought SL, although not "pro-cartel", did receive funding as so much coca is grown in Peru and SL acted as a go between for the Peruvian peasants and the Colombians when buying the crop. SL jacked the price up to 'protect the peasants' and this also protects the crop from interdiction and SL also buys weapons from the cartels. Its more of an uneasy working relationship, but a relationship non the less. And one that doesn't dry up as the worlds appetite for drugs seems never ending.

This was back in the day of Fujimori's regime and as you already stated, SL is not what it once was.

As discussed on the phone, hope to meet you someday.

BZ

[lillysdad621]

... Fujimori is what put an end to their raison d'etre... he arrested 90 percent of the cabinet...overnight. fujimori was the best thing to happen to Peru in the last 50 years... unorthodox, ballsy, maybe a bit too much but someone had to do it. Lima is a beautiful modern city with great restaurants and casinos and hotels now... markets are doing great and the people have not had this much until he got to power... Fujimori was there at the end... Sendero Luminoso was around when Alberto Fujimori was learning spanish. AS per the funding... they were a noble cause... just like Che was a pediatrician, not a guerrillero... ; )

[K.O.]

If the Federal Government ever tried to ban firearms, it would lead to another civil war. Every person who owned a gun and was passionate about keeping it would take up arms. We're talking about an actual, honest-to-goodness scenario where many people would grab their guns and run. Think about it; how many people do you know that own firearms would simply let the Feds walk into their homes and take them?

After the 1996 Port Arthur "disaster" in Australia, their government responded to majority public opinion with stringently enforced new gun laws, and a lot of guns were actually returned by the owners. In Australia at the time (and still) there is a fraction (less than majority) of the population that is very attached to their guns. I might have missed the news, but I don't remember the suburbs and cities of Australia being set on fire after this, or bloated corpses of men, women and children choking the sidewalks from the civil war.

This is a democracy (more or less). If a time comes in this country when gun laws change it will be because elected members of Congress have passed laws. That's the way it works. If you want certain laws, then work democratically for them. If we don't like laws that get passed, we get off our a--es and try to have the laws changed. What you don't do is pick up a gun and threaten civil war. In practical terms, having well-armed paranoid sociopaths threatening war inside the borders of a country is only more likely to get the kind of laws passed that will disarm them anyway. And good luck with the AR-15, 10/22, Gamo Whisper and the bugout kit against Apache Helicopters and Strykers.

If you want to see what a civil war looks like, check out Syria. Even though there is no NRA there, and Syria is an actual real dictatorship, somehow - when the war broke out - EVERYONE had all the small arms, heavy machine guns and bullets that they could handle. There wasn't some guy in Damascus thinking "wow, I was smart to have ordered that Crosman bugout kit off Amazon 2 years ago", or "thank god I stockpiled five .223s and a Sam Yang, because where-oh-where would I get a gun now that my house is rubble and the only two things EVERYONE now has are guns and bullets?" Real civil war is stinking, heartbreaking, no-holds-barred he-l on earth, not some Tom Sawyer/Red Dawn PG-13 fantasy, or some idle threat to be made on forums.

There are lots of amendments to the US Constitution that have been already been warped (or "re-interpreted" if you want to be polite) - including your right not to be tortured, not to be assassinated by your own government, not to be imprisoned without trial, not to have your possessions searched without a warrant. I could go on, but you get the point.  I must have either missed the refreshing civil wars that happened after these - or maybe sane people just keep trying their level best to influence or change the laws in ways that don't involve threatening to set the country on fire.

So, get the bugout kits and enjoy them. It's a free country and there's no harm in them for sane people just having fun. But just realise that if you're not having fun with it already, the joke is on you - and Amazon/Walmart/etc are just laughing to the bank.

Hmm...

[K.O.]

... Fujimori is what put an end to their raison d'etre... he arrested 90 percent of the cabinet...overnight. fujimori was the best thing to happen to Peru in the last 50 years... unorthodox, ballsy, maybe a bit too much but someone had to do it. Lima is a beautiful modern city with great restaurants and casinos and hotels now... markets are doing great and the people have not had this much until he got to power... Fujimori was there at the end... Sendero Luminoso was around when Alberto Fujimori was learning spanish. AS per the funding... they were a noble cause... just like Che was a pediatrician, not a guerrillero... ; )

Hmm...

[K.O.]

Over and over:  need to learn it is a BIG Big  BAD a*** universe out

there that does not care if we make it as a species and we better quit squabbling and get to work...

Ion motors work I am pretty sure ,and they are just a beginning

supposedly  China has a microwave motor that pushes against the higgs field.... (or some thing like that...)

well who knows, I do think the work being done  at the big collider could lead to possibly pushing against  that field ?...

 but yep I hear stuff like that and I counter with Jules Vern

and the disjunctive syllogism

of Carrolls rabbit  hole...

that's the whole of it...


Hey he liked Symbolic Logic...