jds adapter question 13ci tank or 22ci tank ??

[1377x]

i am using a jds tank adapter on a 2300 tube
if anyone has a similar set up,what size tank are you using?
i guess what i need to know is whats the largest tank i can use safely
planning on using a 13ci tank,if i can get away with using a 22ci tank without damaging the tube then i would use a 22ci tank.
any info and help will be appreciated
ED

[SciGuy]

The 22ci does not weigh much more than the 13ci tank.  Either will work.  However, the 22ci will shift the weight further forward and make the gun more front heavy which you may or may not like.

I have used both the 13 and 22 on my QB79 and prefer the 13.

[Ribbonstone]

Mostly a matter of weight.  Same output pressure, so same stress inside the tube reguardless of the size of the bottle, but the .22Ci bottle is heavier and longer (so a longer lever).

 JDS's tank block has been modded for a better screw location, and if installed right, should take either size tank (and doesn't he have a new one that's even longer?).

With the QB, have the option of bedding the block to the stock for a bit of support, which may help if serious bashing about it expected....but the JDS's better screw location is probably stronger.

Like the last post, found the 22 kind of over powered the thin/lite nature of Crosman conversions.  Worked fine, but with the 22CI tank felt I was shooting tank with a gun attached.

[1377x]

thanks for the info!
i just got the adapter last week,couldnt you if it was the old or new one???
the tube mods were done professionally,by our very own Lloyd Sikes.i'll post pics when i can
13ci tank is what im going to stick with,then. im thinking a regulated pressure of 1400 psi. i had a disco valve that shot cphp the fastest at 1100psi,960fps or mayme it was 970fps.i was using a 1377 hammer spring,light valve and rva iirc.i know with the full on mods on my other disco valve it did its best at 2100psi with a 25.4gr jsb monster and .041 music wire spring.this time the valve is bone stock. i guess im going to have to play around with different pressures to get it tuned with my pellet choice which will be 16gr either predator or jsb stratton(my favorite pellet)

[rsterne]

In any regulated gun, adding hammer spring preload after a certain point (depending on the pressure) will just waste air and not increase the velocity.... Once you find that plateau in velocity, back off the hammer spring until you notice the velocity starting to drop.... That is the maximum that gun will shoot in it's current form (porting, pressure, pellets).... If you back the hammer spring down a little bit more, you will lose very little velocity and the shot count will go up even more.... plus the gun will get quieter....

Bob

[1377x]

In any regulated gun, adding hammer spring preload after a certain point (depending on the pressure) will just waste air and not increase the velocity.... Once you find that plateau in velocity, back off the hammer spring until you notice the velocity starting to drop.... That is the maximum that gun will shoot in it's current form (porting, pressure, pellets).... If you back the hammer spring down a little bit more, you will lose very little velocity and the shot count will go up even more.... plus the gun will get quieter....

Bob

got it!
much testing is going to be done when i get it together

rsterne,
do you have the part numbers of the belleville washers and of the shims used to increase to out put pressure on the ninja regulator?
do you know if the ninja 4500psi shp regulator fits the 13ci ninja tank?
any info will be greatly appreciated.i looked on mcmaster-carr for the size belleville washer you mentioned but couldnt find it.there was some similar but dont know if they will work

[rsterne]

All the Ninja regs are the same dimensions, the differences are in the burst discs and springs....

The 0.032" thick Bellevilles at McMaster Carr are # 9713K66 and a 12 pack is only $6.61....

Bob

[1377x]

will be placing an order when i wake up!
thanks!

[SciGuy]

I have the SHP 1100 PSI reg in my 13ci tank.  I like this reg cause you use the adjustment collar to poistion the fill valve and gauge in the orientation you need.  It is a much better solution than the old shims we had to use before. 

[1377x]

i have a question
this is the belleville washer and shim set up for 1450psi
) () () () () ( ( | | 
the first bv washer from shim is .022 and the last one in the stack is .022
does any one know what the output pressure is if i used all .032 thick bv washers instead of the .022??? a close educated guess if fine if you know the exact pressure even better but knowing each regulator is different a close guess will be fine
hope this is clear enough of an explanation to get an answer
thanks for looking
ED

[rsterne]

Here is my graph....



As you can see, there is a line for using two 0.032" Bellevilles on the ends - the black line.... It adds about 200 psi with no shims, and about 500+ psi with 0.050" of shims.... compared to two 0.022" ones on the ends....

Bob

[1377x]

if im reading this right i'll be around 1800psi using .032 bvw ends and the red and silver shims that come with the regulator???
so,if i use only the red thick shim and all ..32 bv washers then the regulator should be around 1600psi,right?
if i use the thin silver shim and .032 bvw then it should be around 1400psi
those shims make a huge difference.
im guessing the red shim is .020 and the silver shim is .010
this is a learning experience for me and hope im getting it.all the info is there, hope im reading it right
thanks again
ED

[rsterne]

The silver shims are about 0.004", the red are, indeed ~0.020".... so 1 red + 1 silver should be about 1700 psi.... Check your burst disc, if it is 1.8K do NOT go beyond ~1600 psi or you will blow the disc (and scare the he!! out of yourself)....

Bob

[1377x]

The silver shims are about 0.004", the red are, indeed ~0.020".... so 1 red + 1 silver should be about 1700 psi.... Check your burst disc, if it is 1.8K do NOT go beyond ~1600 psi or you will blow the disc (and scare the he!! out of yourself)....

Bob

LMBO!
i ordered 3k burst disks just in case of that.i can imagine my reaction to the burst disk bursting.im no condition to be scaring myself.
i noticed i have 2 red shims and one silver.so the red are .020 and the silver is .004

12 bv washers stacked as shown and 1 red shim and 1 silver shim it will be @1700psi
thanks for your help it is greatly appreciated

[rsterne]

1700 plus or minus 100 psi.... The graph was developed using ONE particular regulator, I'm sure they vary a bit....

Bob

[1377x]

1700 plus or minus 100 psi.... The graph was developed using ONE particular regulator, I'm sure they vary a bit....

Bob

got it!
took out the silver shim just in case.

[1377x]

well filled my tank blew the 1.8k burst disk back to the drawing board
somewhere i think i have 12 washers in there instead of 11 like this
) () () () () ( ( |

[LAairguns]

Is the ninja SHP the only reg that can really run above 1500psi output? I have new crossfire stealth reg off a 4500 psi 68 ci bottle that I thought maybe I could use.  Obviously I would change the 1.8K burst disk to a 5K, but in looking at this thread, it seems that I would be topped out around 1100 psi maybe.  I came to this conclusion as the crossfire reg uses a spring and not a washer stack as the Ninja SHP uses to load the regulator. 

I wanted to make a buddy bottle for my disco as I have a 4500psi 92cu in crossfire bottle and I plan to put a 2000 psi reg on the bottle and it would be perfect range bottle to lug around when I go shoot my powder burners.

[1377x]

i have seen the pure energy regulators modded like the ninja regulators in searches i did looking for the stack order of the belleville washers.
nothing popped up about crossfire
the regulators being converted in this thread are the reguler 850 regulator.i have seen the shp regulator the stack is like the )()()()()( cant remember if there was any shims
i have stack like this and it blew a 1.8k burst disk while the tank was being filled.meaning the regulator is not working properly
))()()()()((| .032 bvw .020s the regulator should be around 1600psi +/-100psi.if i have a .004 s then 1700psi +/- 100psi
if the regulator was working properly would it blew the burst disk only after the pin was pushed in?
i am making a regulator output reader from an asa valve and liquid filled gauge that reads 50psi increments.then i can experiment with using the graph as a guide

[rsterne]

Burst discs are not very accurate, they have about a 10% tolerance range.... so your 1.8K disc could blow at about 1600 psi.... I had one regulator that I carefully set at 1600 with an accurate gauge and about a week after installing it in a gun, and while it was just sitting on the bench, the disc blew (scared the cr_p outta me!).... I replaced the disc and have never had a problem since.... I have heard that running the tank down to very low pressure (ie well below the setpiont) will shorten the life of the burst disc from metal fatigue, and that seems reasonable.... In addition, as I told you before, that graph was for ONE specific regulator, so when you set up forf 1600, it could easily be 1700.... That plus a burst disc on the low side of the tolerance and WOOOSH!, no more disc.... That graph is for Ninja regulators only, it s NOT intended for other brands, nor do I even know if the other brands are safe at over 850 psi.... If the disc blew only after the pin valve was pushed in, the pin that pushes the valve open may be too long, or you may have assembled it incorrectly.... It shouldn't add any load to the regulator piston....

When you make up your regulator test rig, make sure you have a way to bleed of the air in the ASA valve or you won't be able to remove it.... or it will at least be difficult to unscrew to the point where the O-ring uncovers the vent hole.... When that happens, if the pressure is high, you have a good chance of blowing the O-ring.... NEVER try and remove an ASA that doesn't have a vent hole while it is under pressure....

Bob