I just can't reconcile myself to the expense and added hassle of pumps, tanks, fittings, and all the accessories that will eventually come with owning a PCP. $400.00 for a gun and hand pump, then another $500.00 OR EASILY MORE if I want to get a tank and mechanical pump. Nope...A lot of folks say, "If you want power, just go to PCP and be done with it". But in my mind, if that were the case, just skip AG's altogether and get a 22 PB.
Maybe a great business venture for some of you well expierenced rifle tuners. Sell "blueprinted" Hatsan air rifles,for the more serious customer...as in cleaned and smoothed,but stock components. I looked at the Sniper 125,based on a couple of reviews I had read,and especially on Rick,of Airgunweb,comment on how well they were built and performance per dollar.I had just gotten out of a new Ruger Air Magnum that was failing. Hopefully my latest purchase will work out to be a good one. Only continued shooting will prove that out.If and when it breaks,or pellet velocity starts to drop off rapidly,then maybe send it out for a gas piston install.Going to enjoy it right now!
Quote from: fortyshooter on April 24, 2012, 10:53:59 AMMaybe a great business venture for some of you well expierenced rifle tuners. Sell "blueprinted" Hatsan air rifles,for the more serious customer...as in cleaned and smoothed,but stock components. I looked at the Sniper 125,based on a couple of reviews I had read,and especially on Rick,of Airgunweb,comment on how well they were built and performance per dollar.I had just gotten out of a new Ruger Air Magnum that was failing. Hopefully my latest purchase will work out to be a good one. Only continued shooting will prove that out.If and when it breaks,or pellet velocity starts to drop off rapidly,then maybe send it out for a gas piston install.Going to enjoy it right now! That's too much of a investment to have rifles sit around waiting for some one who wants that particular model. it better just to send your rifle out to some one who does all that
Quote from: Mike 4888blues on April 24, 2012, 12:39:45 PMQuote from: fortyshooter on April 24, 2012, 10:53:59 AMMaybe a great business venture for some of you well expierenced rifle tuners. Sell "blueprinted" Hatsan air rifles,for the more serious customer...as in cleaned and smoothed,but stock components. I looked at the Sniper 125,based on a couple of reviews I had read,and especially on Rick,of Airgunweb,comment on how well they were built and performance per dollar.I had just gotten out of a new Ruger Air Magnum that was failing. Hopefully my latest purchase will work out to be a good one. Only continued shooting will prove that out.If and when it breaks,or pellet velocity starts to drop off rapidly,then maybe send it out for a gas piston install.Going to enjoy it right now! That's too much of a investment to have rifles sit around waiting for some one who wants that particular model. it better just to send your rifle out to some one who does all thatMike,Have your customers "drop ship" their rifles to you, directly from the vendor they buy it from . . . Only one additional shipping cost that way !Dave
I looked at these pictures and it looks like, the slot was never deburred after it was cut, or stamped, hence, when assembled, the 'edge' folded over and looks like a 'sleeve'."Sabotage?', it's poor workmanship for a company that's been producing, not just airguns, but Hatsan shotguns...from what I read since 1976.1. Maybe they outsourced to China2. Poor workmanship is happening to ALL the under $300 springer airguns, I don't have to name them!I haven't read about poor workmanship on the German springers.Myself, I want a gun that 'shoots', I'm not going to tear it down to "MAKE IT WORK".To 'mod it', not a problem, but it's got to work right out of the box...IMy free time will be better spent, ...SHOOTING" . PERIOD!Do the math guys/girls, mucking around with these things is costing you more than just $$$$, TIME tear downs, searching for parts, returns, emails, surfing/reading ETC ETC!!For me, PCP is the way to go, I haven't read about shoddy workmanship...yet! An expense is needed to get started, pumps, tanks, or a compressor if you have that kind of money.Scuba tanks can be filled just about anywhere! (Arizona, might be changeling)Scuba tank and valve about $225, fills are about $12 some places offer 3 (or more) free fills when you buy a tank from them.In my area (Raleigh NC) there are about 4 places to fill up.I scuba, so I already have a tank.A Disco with pump from Wally can be had for around $350.Yeah, I'll still 'pump' my old pumper and struggle with my Crosman XL1100, which is shooting nicely, and maybe another nice springer to fool with.But the 'force' is strong...on the "Darkside"!!
I looked at these pictures and it looks like, the slot was never deburred after it was cut, or stamped, hence, when assembled, the 'edge' folded over and looks like a 'sleeve'."Sabotage?', it's poor workmanship for a company that's been producing, not just airguns, but Hatsan shotguns...from what I read since 1976.1. Maybe they outsourced to China2. Poor workmanship is happening to ALL the under $300 springer airguns, I don't have to name them!I haven't read about poor workmanship on the German springers.Myself, I want a gun that 'shoots', I'm not going to tear it down to "MAKE IT WORK".To 'mod it', not a problem, but it's got to work right out of the box...IMy free time will be better spent, ...SHOOTING" . PERIOD!Do the math guys/girls, mucking around with these things is costing you more than just $$$$, TIME tear downs, searching for parts, returns, emails, surfing/reading ETC ETC!!
Quote from: Mike 4888blues on April 24, 2012, 12:39:45 PMQuote from: fortyshooter on April 24, 2012, 10:53:59 AMMaybe a great business venture for some of you well expierenced rifle tuners. Sell "blueprinted" Hatsan air rifles,for the more serious customer...as in cleaned and smoothed,but stock components. I looked at the Sniper 125,based on a couple of reviews I had read,and especially on Rick,of Airgunweb,comment on how well they were built and performance per dollar.I had just gotten out of a new Ruger Air Magnum that was failing. Hopefully my latest purchase will work out to be a good one. Only continued shooting will prove that out.If and when it breaks,or pellet velocity starts to drop off rapidly,then maybe send it out for a gas piston install.Going to enjoy it right now! That's too much of a investment to have rifles sit around waiting for some one who wants that particular model. it better just to send your rifle out to some one who does all thatMike I think you can see the problem the "Pro tuners" face, here and other forums folk say things like good money and such. The fact of the matter is, there is very little money involved after the outlay in tooling and parts and let alone shipping. Imagine as well rifles coming back because the customer didn't like the result. If you can manage it you may make some change to fuel your hobby, but you don't want to even think about the potential liability as well....At the factory level, did you get a chance to see the vid on FX where the owner was straightening barrels and testing them? Imagine Hatsan pushing a big lot of rifles through to get them into a shipping container back sometime prior to the shot show. Heck just look at the heat Joao ended up with a couple days delay due to truck freight. As several of us have experienced, Hatsan needs to add some 100% QC checkpoints on their receivers. The guys assembling them from a stack of parts with absurd seal destroying burrs on the end and shavings from improper cleaning are just ridiculous. Somewhere in between FX's $1500 retail price and say 1/3 that for a Hatsan (in PCP anyway) should allow a reasonable QC level. Mark
Far from the topic at hand...and is totally avoided by using proper lubes, and not getting them where they shouldn't be.Was it charged with pure oxygen?
Mike, you are correct, there is a place for everyone.The key words in my post were "Myself...""My time..."Just trying to post an 'alternative' or 'my view' from the lessons I've learned.FOR ME, time is worth more than money!For me, shooting is my first interest, modding them is #2I also love the feel of 'well tuned gun'!Fixing a busted product right out of the box isn't on MY list. I refuse to pay for someone elses "mistakes"No matter what the 'brand'For some, this is what they want or only know.I just happened to post this on a Hatsan post, but I think I mentioned 'all...' "I don't have to name them' which covers a LARGE number of brands.Read around, it's happening to a lot of airgun owners. Pick an airgun brand/name and look around at the posts. Shavings in the piston area, burrs, over oiled, un-lubed etc etc etcI won't get into the "POI" or POA issues!There are plenty of good guns on that list...'but'.For me, I'll steer clear and wait for the dust to settle.For some, there will be PLENTY of business!I wish you well, you are in innovator and Hatsan should be paying you for that!
I can fully understand the lure and also the sticker shock of PCP.The perfect solution then, might be the a Discovery and to use it with CO2. CO2 is as simple to deal with as gong to your local paintball gun store and buying equipment from them as far as refills and tanks go. They are much less expensive as they are made to operate at far lower pressures. Given that the Discovery is designed to operate at far greater than CO2 pressures, even leaving it in a a place where it gets hot won't likely cause any problem. It's really a win-win situation and an easy solution to get you started into PCP.BTW, a $120 "pony" tank is probably all you need. Get a good valve and you're good to go (I'm not a fan of hoses and prefer a direct connection) Less than $200 for HPA and about half that for CO2.
Quote from: Craymar on April 24, 2012, 01:40:27 AMQuote from: Paul68 on April 23, 2012, 11:01:29 PMCrosman anyone?? LOL.Funny you should mention that. I ordered a Disco Sunday. I've had enough of this for now. I will say that my 125 Sniper is one of mine favorites now. But was allot of hassle and worry.I just can't reconcile myself to the expense and added hassle of pumps, tanks, fittings, and all the accessories that will eventually come with owning a PCP. $400.00 for a gun and hand pump, then another $500.00 OR EASILY MORE if I want to get a tank and mechanical pump. Nope...A lot of folks say, "If you want power, just go to PCP and be done with it". But in my mind, if that were the case, just skip AG's altogether and get a 22 PB.I brought up Crosman because its the same thing, no difference whatsoever. It's a business model, and Hatsan has design and marketing down, and apparently is taking a page from the Chinese for manufacturing, rather than emulating the Germans. There is only one way to improve the build quality for Hatsan. They already have the design. In order to get the fit and finish, they have to add another step in the assembly process, and that means a final prep by hand before actual assembly. Pistons and compression tubes need to be deburred and smoothed, spring ends squared and smoothed, and all the miscellaneous small parts given a quick smoothing or polishing. They just won't get the clean assembly and reliable performance without it.Problem is, that kind of attention to detail increases costs, which is why you pay more for say an RWS.
Quote from: Paul68 on April 23, 2012, 11:01:29 PMCrosman anyone?? LOL.Funny you should mention that. I ordered a Disco Sunday. I've had enough of this for now. I will say that my 125 Sniper is one of mine favorites now. But was allot of hassle and worry.
Crosman anyone?? LOL.
Quote from: Paul68 on April 24, 2012, 10:32:00 AMQuote from: Craymar on April 24, 2012, 01:40:27 AMQuote from: Paul68 on April 23, 2012, 11:01:29 PMCrosman anyone?? LOL.Funny you should mention that. I ordered a Disco Sunday. I've had enough of this for now. I will say that my 125 Sniper is one of mine favorites now. But was allot of hassle and worry.I just can't reconcile myself to the expense and added hassle of pumps, tanks, fittings, and all the accessories that will eventually come with owning a PCP. $400.00 for a gun and hand pump, then another $500.00 OR EASILY MORE if I want to get a tank and mechanical pump. Nope...A lot of folks say, "If you want power, just go to PCP and be done with it". But in my mind, if that were the case, just skip AG's altogether and get a 22 PB.I brought up Crosman because its the same thing, no difference whatsoever. It's a business model, and Hatsan has design and marketing down, and apparently is taking a page from the Chinese for manufacturing, rather than emulating the Germans. There is only one way to improve the build quality for Hatsan. They already have the design. In order to get the fit and finish, they have to add another step in the assembly process, and that means a final prep by hand before actual assembly. Pistons and compression tubes need to be deburred and smoothed, spring ends squared and smoothed, and all the miscellaneous small parts given a quick smoothing or polishing. They just won't get the clean assembly and reliable performance without it.Problem is, that kind of attention to detail increases costs, which is why you pay more for say an RWS.Funny how you lump Crosman and Chinese rifles all together with the issues Hatsan is having. I have no complains about my Trail NP or TechForce 89. Once Hatsan gets the metal bits out of their chambers and cleans out all the shavings I won't have a complaint with them, other than some iffy barrel finishing. I know I won't have to tear the Disco down before shooting it and if I was buying a new springer in the 16-18 FPE range it would be the NPSS hands down.
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