Fustrated with Crosman Nitro Venom

[Paul68]

Two things.

Very good chance the seal is bad.

Also almost a certainty the barrel pivot is moving around judging from "group" patterns. All the springer Crosmans, gas or spring, have cheap barrel washers and poor seal installation. Once in awhile you get lucky and the seal will be good, but then those plastic pivot washers are going to wear out fairly quickly and play havoc with your accuracy.

If your barrel has little or no tension at the hinge and will flip up and down without any resistance at all when the piston is cocked, the plastic washers are probably toast. You should be able to cock the rifle and move the barrel into any position and have it either hold that position once let go, or almost hold position.

My Crosman Storm is a b18-19 variant as well, and shares some basic design with the Venom, particularly the pivot washers. It shot very similarly out of the box, and no amount of tightening, pellet changes, etc helped.

Tore it down, put in a new seal and lubed tuned it, and installed zinc pivot washers. After a couple bouts of retightening the barrel pivot as the washers broke in, it now will hit a 2"x2" spinner at 50 yrds every time as long as I am on it. It will group 1/2" or better at 25 yrds using CPHP's.

With your gun, I'd simply take it apart, clean it up with a smoothing and hone, install a seal and metal washers, and break it in again. Within 5oo shots it would more than likely seem like a totally different gun.

I agree, though. None of that should be necessary in any way. The only saving grace is that these Crosman 18-19 variants are simple to work on, and a tune can be done cheaply in a couple hours. Right now, I have no interest in buying a Crosman AG, simply because I don't need another project.

If and when I want something new out of the box to tinker with, then I'll consider one of the Titans or Trails, but I'll do so knowing full well the chances of getting a good shooter out of the box are not good.

[uncle paulie]

yes if there is even small cut on the seal it will screw up your groups.  hone your gun "LIGHTLY" with a bubble hone for a 1 inch diameter  from an auto supply store CLEAN it out very well with soap and water and wipe clean.  add some moly paste and re install a new seal.  there is alot of info on how to install a new seal without damaging it here on GTA. 

i installed genes bushing/washer kit,  grt III trigger  hone/lube, re crown barrel, new piston seal, barrel droop compensating mount. and my titan gp shoots dimes at 25 with jsb dome 8.4 grains. 

if none of that works after 2000 rounds or so send her back,  crosman wont complain unless you tell them you have modded it. 

Using a bubble(ball) hone runs the risk of putting a radius on the bottom of the compression tube which will eventually affect your new seal. Use a brake hone instead and file the pad carriers flush with the stones so the compression tube maintains a square edge at the bottom.

pv 

[eat2muchrice]

Lambchops, I’ve e-mailed Crosman again about this current situation. I’m interested to hear what they have to say, everyone in here states how they have great customer service so let’s see where they go with this one.

Thanks Ol’DeadEye for the tips. I have had both .177 and .22 Nitro Vemons, both calipers are fairly equal at ranges of 25 yards. I do however prefer the .177 as it provides more kick and “tings” the targets faster without the delay. I would look into PCP but the prices are out of my league, I had planned to be a weekend/monthly shooter so that might be overkill. Maybe I’ll start saving up for one next year.

Treb37, so what was wrong with your Nitro Venom and how did you fix it? Shooting paintballs at 30 yards does sound fun, if I ever get a working rifle that will be on my to-do list.

Hey Paul68, The barrel has nice tenshion when cocking and no wiggle or free play. I would like to do all the upgrades and tune, if I tune it I void the warranty and must keep it. Just like a relationship, you can try and try to make it work, but if you marry into it before all the kinks are worked out you’ll have one heck of a problem to live with.

Thanks for the replies, it helping with my AR's withdraws.

[SAADE]

Yes, I’ve called Crosman in regards to my other two Nitro Vemons and was just instructed to return them to the retailer. There are a few reasons why I was so adamant for this rifle to work for me. The most important factor is that my loving wife bought me this rifle for my birthday. She spent days researching, learning, calling around and asking people all about air rifles, which she knew nothing about to find me the perfect gift. Her eyes were filled with excitement upon me opening it up and that created the instant bond for me to love anything she had chosen. Also besides my inability to make this rifle shoot properly I love all the features, price and looks of it. It is kind of heart breaking knowing that I’ve tried so hard to make it work out and it’s just not performing within reasonable tolerance.

“Ol’DeadEye”  No, I have not tried shooting it at 10 yards. I do know that the barrel’s plastic seal is not level and it makes a bull thud sound sometimes when it shoots, bottoming out hitting my wooden table where my target trap stands on.

Dude...waaaay too many DIY remedies here and no solution to your core problem; a gun that doesn't work right outa the box, like it should x 3!

Crosman does a pretty good job with the MRods, PRods, Discos and the 22xx and 13xx guns, unfortunately, your springer/gas piston gun and so many others like yours, not so much.

Check out the American Airguns Calssifieds and other sites for a pampered RWS or better yet, Weihrauch spring gun. Once you go to the Weihrauch side of the street, you'll never walk on the Chi-com springer side again. 

[eat2muchrice]

Thanks Saade, I’m in contact with Crosman via e-mails. I hope to come to some sort of resolution and assurance that they will try to prevent future incidents like mine. I might need a break from air rifles, put too much time and work into this. I greatly appreciate all the recommendations that everyone has provided, it’s a bit overwhelming with all the choices as I’ve been spending hours daily looking around online.

[Petey]

Yes, I’ve called Crosman in regards to my other two Nitro Vemons and was just instructed to return them to the retailer. There are a few reasons why I was so adamant for this rifle to work for me. The most important factor is that my loving wife bought me this rifle for my birthday. She spent days researching, learning, calling around and asking people all about air rifles, which she knew nothing about to find me the perfect gift. Her eyes were filled with excitement upon me opening it up and that created the instant bond for me to love anything she had chosen. Also besides my inability to make this rifle shoot properly I love all the features, price and looks of it. It is kind of heart breaking knowing that I’ve tried so hard to make it work out and it’s just not performing within reasonable tolerance.

“Ol’DeadEye”  No, I have not tried shooting it at 10 yards. I do know that the barrel’s plastic seal is not level and it makes a bull thud sound sometimes when it shoots, bottoming out hitting my wooden table where my target trap stands on.

Dude...waaaay too many DIY remedies here and no solution to your core problem; a gun that doesn't work right outa the box, like it should x 3!

Crosman does a pretty good job with the MRods, PRods, Discos and the 22xx and 13xx guns, unfortunately, your springer/gas piston gun and so many others like yours, not so much.

Check out the American Airguns Calssifieds and other sites for a pampered RWS or better yet, Weihrauch spring gun. Once you go to the Weihrauch side of the street, you'll never walk on the Chi-com springer side again. 

Bingo YOU beat me to it........ Why on earth should anyone have to fix a new product in order to use it.?  If it was your new car would you fix it yourself....NO.    When you buy a product that is defective you hold the MFG responsible. Quit being typical males and advocating fix it yourself. Lol Nuff said.
   I dumped my Titan and the NP. Got A HW30S.  Yes it cost a bit more.But it has already paid for itself in satisfaction. The satisfaction of owning an Ag that is as pleasing to operate as it is to the eye..
A quality product that will in fact outlast me. 
 Let's do some quick math. Trail NP $229. + Gold trigger $32.00 + Bushing kit $18.00 .=$279.00 Then your time to install. Then it it fails..take all the extras. $20.00 to ship back to Crosman. Meanwhile you have  no AG if it's your only.
We are now up to $299.00  not including the all the hassle and frustration.

For $32.00 dollars more,  $311.95 +EST:$20.00 shipping  You can buy a HW30S New....Nothing to do but wipe it off clean the barrel and go shootin. A trigger that dreams are made of....What a purchase should be.Something of pleasure.
no it isn't a magnum...but if you want to punch paper , plink and pest....In .177 it's a sure fire winner. Can't swing three bills...RWS 34. It's on my list.
Just trying to demonstrate how the bottom line can really add up .
I know .been there..not going back either.

[neilstuckey]

my advise is to get your money back. and look for a fixed barrel guns like to discovery or underlevers like hatsans or similar.  the problem is that there is alot of slop between the barrel washers and the pivot bolt. i replaced the plastic ones with zinc and replaced the pivot bolt with an allen head bolt to allow to tighten more. it helped for awhile and eventually went back to grouping everywhere. crosman is using a poor lock up desighn.  I had a gunsmith machine a front and rear rifle sights on the barrel and mine works great.  so i dont think you can add rifle sights to the xt due to barrel design. my oppinion is that break barrels dont work well with scoopes cuz every time the barrel moves even the slightest bit your point of impact changes. 

[eat2muchrice]

I keep hearing a faint calling from the darkside, whispers in the back of my head are saying “we have cookies over here”. I’m trying to resist but the urge to have more power is getting to me.

[bokes]

I've been on the fence for 6 months on buying a Trail. On one side the ratings look mostly positive, on the other side many frustrated owners.
But I think this thread turned me off for good. Too many plastic parts and too many stories of poor craftmanship. Even if it did shoot well out of the box, I'd wonder how long it would last before the parts and pivots wear out.
Now I'm planning on either an R9 or one of the new BSA Lightnings with Gas Ram (if they move production back to the UK)

[SAADE]

Springers in order of $$$ and level of  satisfaction, Theoben, Weihrauch, FWB, BSA (UK made) RWS and then... all others a distant 10th or 12th place  .

Pete said it best...  "Let's do some quick math. Trail NP $229. + Gold trigger $32.00 + Bushing kit $18.00 .=$279.00 Then your time to install. Then it it fails..take all the extras. $20.00 to ship back to Crosman. Meanwhile you have  no AG if it's your only. We are now up to $299.00  not including the all the hassle and frustration."

[Lambchops]

Don't worry Crosman screwed me over with quality control on my Titan. Same problems as yours.

[eat2muchrice]

I’m still in contact with Crosman’s management via E-mail and I have to say that so far they seem to take responsibility for their products with no excuses. I don’t think its proper for me to disclose our conversation, but I’m trying to get the point accross that Cosman is only one step away from being the beloved air rifles that I’ve grown up with. I’m not an expert on AR’s but that’s exactly why I feel it’s important for them to listen to people like me. So far the high light of this experience is knowing that they seems to be listening. For a company who does that makes them a huge factor in buying anything from them. I understand changes takes time and I hope they will be made. That might give me enough motivation to try them again, just with a different line up.

Why am I still hearing those voices in my head? “join us”……..

[eat2muchrice]

Pete said it best...  "Let's do some quick math. Trail NP $229. + Gold trigger $32.00 + Bushing kit $18.00 .=$279.00 Then your time to install. Then it it fails..take all the extras. $20.00 to ship back to Crosman. Meanwhile you have  no AG if it's your only. We are now up to $299.00  not including the all the hassle and frustration."

Don't forget the other hidden startup cost like Moly paste, bore cleaners, Lock tight, oil, array of different pellets, new scope. I am sure that a lot of people out there have no idea what these things can cost. Before this forum I've always thought it was as simple as just buying one a tin of pellets, a cleaning kit, rifle then go out shooting. I knew fine tuning a rifle would cost money but that should be a hobby not an obligation. Just my thoughts.

[SAADE]

Eat2muchrice: Here is the underlying problem, and it's not just a Crosman thing IMO.

In the last 25 years, the average american consumer has become less and less knowledgeable about mechanical things. For many reasons, not least of which are products that are "throwaway" and are not intended to be fixed, opened up and modified and... the boom in passive entertainment and sports activities i.e, X-box, I-Pad, Smart Phone, fantasy-football, pick one. I think we all know a few "fantasy jocks" who probably haven't tossed a football in a backyard game in 20 years!?

Manufacturers (at the same time) have had to find a way to compete for our attention and $ and do it cheaply, which is different than doing it with quality with lower costs. So goes Crosman with many of their products. Made in China, which, doesn't have to be a bad thing but, it's geared towards the mildly informed consumer, or more often, the uninformed. "Big-Bang XL 5000" in large print on the box, with made in china and "velocity with 2gr plastic pellets" in font so small even lawyers can't read it on the back. And so it goes.

As I usually note, in step the Euro guns and makers. These guys have been making serious airguns for serious (and mechanically inclined) airgunners for over 100 years. In Germany and the UK, there are more Field Target, hunters and 10 meter shooters than all the serious adult airgunners combined in the U.S. A serious UK gunner expects to open up a Weihrauch or Air Arms box, sight the gun in and go shooting. He expects (and usually gets) a world class REAL 2 stage trigger, a Lothar barrel or equivalent, and a spring that will last till his grand kids start shooting. Even with their Euro based economy, they pay nearly double for the same gun that can be had in the states. They also have to live with 12 ft lbs energy or pay big bucks and wait for an FAC or firearms license to go over that. Many folks here and in the US generally,  laugh at 12 ft lbs, and spend money to reach 30 and 50 fpe with no restrictions. Sadly, their pursuit is often started at the low end or uninformed end of the product spectrum. As NPetey noted, after a year and $350 spent on all the "stuff" they see an HW30, new, for $370, with a Rekord trigger, match-like barrel, real blued steel, excellent woodwork and accuracy better than most shooters can exploit, right outa the box.

If you aren't going PCP, look at FWB, Air Arms, Weihrauch and Walther guns. Yes, they cost, and yes, they deliver. I have had the "junker" spring guns, mostly out of curiosity, they all failed in most ways to deliver. I still have my Walthers, Air Arms and Weihrauch guns, some are 20 yrs old and still performing nearly as well as they did day one. All of them provide great shooting enjoyment, pride of ownership and accuracy that I try to live up to as the human element of the equation, often with less result than I would like, old eyes you know?.

As others write about washers, and shims and bent barrels and gold trigger replacements, I am amazed at how some of those guns ever make it into a store for sale! On the flip side, my HW97k performs so well, that I have actually shot it with loose stock screws and did not know it until I heard unusual rattles, the paper target had one hole and two hole groups at 20 meters, just about like it always does, loose screws or not. It doesn't get better than that.

[Petey]

Amen Brother!
Brian ....take a seat and relax after that one.
Well done.

[SAADE]

Amen Brother!
Brian ....take a seat and relax after that one.
Well done.

Whew...! I was on a roll there! 

[Fishbone]

Amen Brother!
Brian ....take a seat and relax after that one.
Well done.

Well said/written SAADE.

Some of us don't realize that until we're 'into it'.

Being new to the sport, I fell into it.

My first thoughts on deciding an air rifle, $300 range....don't ALL rifles end up with a better trigger?
I'll probably end up modding any rifle.
Are some if not all airguns made in China or have parts made in China?

 Innovated design with the NitroPiston, excellent customer service, I might as well stick with USA company, Crosman!
But it 'slightly' occurred to me "I might get a bad/cheaply made gun for $250+"
I guess I got lucky with my XL1100.

But a gun that doesn't shoot well right out of the box? It will go back into the box if it's junk.
I understand Eats connection to his Crosman, his wife selected it as a gift...and commend him for his 'stickin to it'.

It's been an interesting thread.
My next 'springer' will probably be a Weihrauch, for another Crosman product, a Disco is in the plan and probably a Prod.

[neilstuckey]

Completely agree with saade.  Stay away fron crosman break  barrels.  Im not fond of any break barrel gun compared to fixed. Although people swear by rws 34 and weihrach 30.  There are some great underlevers and pcp/ co2 guns. For around $300. Benji. Discos are good and hatsans 150 are pretty solid. The hatsan gate discussion   gate is on fire right now. 

[eat2muchrice]

Well I would like to update my situation with Crosman, They kindly offered me a new Nitro Venom rifle that has been quality tested by them. I got overly excited and requested to upgrade to a PCP hahaha. I know I pushed it a bit far and they denied the request. Although they still offer to provided me with a replacement this is my response.

“I apologize that my request sounded greedy as that was not my intent, I chose this model due to the recommendations of others and how I believe it would fit the “bill”, also please understand that I do appreciate the offer for a new Nitro Vemon that has been tested by your experienced team. However the thought of a 4th break barrel attempt leaves me unsure, knowing that 2 have already failed me after several hundred shoots. I Hope you can understand my lack of motivation to “break-in” another rifle for the 4th time knowing I still might have problems with it. Honestly, I falsely worked myself up with excitement for the chance of going into a PCP rifle and I guess that is my mistake because when "****" mentioned providing me a new rifle and request me to choose the model I felt this was the best fit for me. I became overly excited, so much so I stayed up till 3am researching all about them. I hope you can understand my decision for me to cut my losses and drop out of the sport. Call me silly for passing up your offer, but it’s not about getting a new rifle, it’s about the overall experience I wanted with them.“

This is all nearing an end to my air rifle adventure, it’s truly been interesting and I fear I’ll be fading away into the vast internet. Without the adequate funds to explore other options and being without owning one I don’t see myself staying involved in the forums for very long. I’ll stick around as much as I can for I feel I’ve made many friends here. I know many will say buy this or that, do this and that or just take the money and run, I just don't have the heart and energy to contunue anymore. In due time I’m sure I’ll give it another attempt and one year it will be done right with all the knowledge everyone here has provided me.

[Paul68]

Get your refund, and purchase one of Mike Melicks tuned b28's while he has them on sale. Problems solved.

Even with what I already have, if I had the cash I would buy one myself. 

You would get a powerful, accurate, attractive shooter that would last a long time and have none of the hassles. Check out his notices in the Vendors gate under Flying Dragon. Mike will not steer you wrong.