Fustrated with Crosman Nitro Venom

[eat2muchrice]

I’m starting a new post for this topic, it is a continuation to another post I started linked here.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,28767.0.html

I GIVE UP on you Crosman! This is my third Nitro Venom Dusk and the quality between each one is considerable noticeable. I have tried everything possible next to completely tearing your rifle down and rebuild it. I have spent countless hours reading, watching and learning, I’ve pulled up almost every since link on the whole entire internet. Yes, I’m mad and frustrated, I’ve spent over a month trying to make your rifles work. I’m not asking for much, just a decent shooting rifle that is reliable for one to go hunting or plucking with. You have taken something that was supposed to be fun and relaxing then turned it into a nightmare of aggravation.  You have ruined this sport for me.

For those who have been following my progress with my Crosman Nitro Venom dusks, I finished grinding though the 500 rounds for break in. Today the weather was perfect so I decided to go out again, my shots got progressively worse and worse, just like the previous Nitro Venom rifles that I had returned. Again I tried everything to fix the issue form remounting the scope, tighten all screws, cleaning barrel with dry patches. I’ve already spent over $60 in different pellet types and bought special bore cleaner, new scope, GTR III trigger and brushes to cleaning. My groups are now so bad that it looks like I sprayed the target with a shotgun. Honestly I didn’t think the rifle could cause me such a headache, I’ve read bad reviews, but thought I’d be able to fix it, but not with these rifles. I should not have to void my warranty stripping it apart and rebuilding it for it to shoot decent. This is ridiculous and don’t blame the Chinese manufacturer for ones failure to require quality control, I own my own company that manufactures our products in China and when it come to quality it’s “MY” job to ensure everything meets specifications. If something does not meet my satisfaction they (China) will change it till it does, they just build what they are told to and will change everything from type of material to quality of work if and when told to. China does make a few great products and a lot of bad ones, but 99% of the bad are only because of our corporate greed and laziness to make the fastest buck possible.
Sorry and thanks for listening to my ranting, I’m just going to print out my return labels then relax for the rest of my weekend. Once I steam off a bit I might start looking into a new rifle.


My Crosman Nitro Venom Dust, I didn't know these rifles can outline a star map.

[neilstuckey]

this looks like my titan gp all over again!  do not panic i got mine to work and so can you.  What exactly has been done to the rifle? 

[Kailua]

Might be a dirty barrel or crown needs work.  May need to run a barrel mop with bore compound and finish it up with goo gone and patches.  Inspect the crown and maybe polish that up too.  Hope things work out it could be some minor tweaking.  If it seems the some shots seem like they are shooting a little slow clean and lube your pellets.  Been using automatic transmission fluid that works fine no dieseling. 

[Lambchops]

I'm almost certain it's your piston seal. A chronograph will tell you for sure.

[neilstuckey]

ok i saw your other post.  I had to take the gun apart put 5/16 brass washers for the barrel pivot gene sells a kit at the grt trigger site.  The stock plastic washer are a no go and cause the barrel to move left and right.  i had the barrel recrowned 30$ local gunsmith.  and i had barrel droop caused shots to usually go low cutting strips of aluminum can folding them over and placing the in the rear scope mount will help there is a you tube video for barrel droop on crosmans, also there are scope mounts that can adjust for barrel droop. also make sure you get a scope mount that has a scope stop drilled in thats what the hole on top of your compression tube is if the scope moves even slightly you will never group at any yards.  dont just place a scope on the factory rail it wont hold up to the recoil. 

the biggest issues crosman seems to have is barrel crowns and barrel droop.  the other issue people are not usin scope stop mounts on these heavy recoil guns

[neilstuckey]

yes if there is even small cut on the seal it will screw up your groups.  hone your gun "LIGHTLY" with a bubble hone for a 1 inch diameter  from an auto supply store CLEAN it out very well with soap and water and wipe clean.  add some moly paste and re install a new seal.  there is alot of info on how to install a new seal without damaging it here on GTA. 

i installed genes bushing/washer kit,  grt III trigger  hone/lube, re crown barrel, new piston seal, barrel droop compensating mount. and my titan gp shoots dimes at 25 with jsb dome 8.4 grains. 

if none of that works after 2000 rounds or so send her back,  crosman wont complain unless you tell them you have modded it. 

[gamo2hammerli]

What's the distance with those shots?
Guess my friend got lucky....he got his Venom a couple of weeks back and he's getting about quarter-size groups out to 30 yards with .177 Beeman FTS pellets.

[Fishbone]

Eats, I replied to original post.
From that post, that rifle wasn't bad, the group on the left was good, a couple of flyers.

1. FOR MY XL1100, trying different pellets required re-zeroing my scope for each pellet from different manufacturers.
I stopped trying that and stuck with CPHP, I can hit a 1 1/2" plinker 4 out 5 times at 45 yards, nothing done except the GTR trigger. I've only had the gun less than a tin of pellets.
2 These guns are very hold sensitive.

I bought my XL1100 based on shooting a friends Trail, his worked fine, he just changed to a GTR trigger.
A 15 year old neighbor just bought a Titan (because I had a Benji and the other guy had a Benji) his is a little more difficult to get good groups...but the kid has come around!

Personally, you're trying too hard! Trying too many different pellets,
Go to a gun shop and shoot the gun over the chrony. Then go from there.

[Lambchops]

Hey eatrice dude i'm 99% sure it IS your seal. Order an apex seal from air rifle hq .com and.install it.

[sawtoothscream]

I wont buy another crosman springer. the trail NP i had was junk.   Shouldnt have to spend all that time and money getting a brand new gun to group good.  now the 22xx, 13xx and disco are great guns and im happy with them. 

[neilstuckey]

most springers and piston guns dont group out of the box need alot of lead and tlc.  its just part of the baggage.  i imagine alot of good spring/piston guns get sent back when there isnt anything really wrong with the gun.

[thekid]

I gave up on Crosman, a long time ago.
I Have had numerous phantoms,quests and what ever other name they gave them.All had problems.
That is why I went with RWS for my full power models.

I bought the stoeger which is either a b18-b19 variant, virtually the same as crosmans and gamo's. The purpose of the purchase was an excuse to use the GRT111 trigger. I used the knowledge, acquired here and tuned her. Made some of my own parts, had it crowned professionally. Made my own brass pivot bushings.Touched up the breach face , there was a bur. Buttoned the piston and crosshatched the piston chamber.
Turned out, way better, than I ever expected. Had I this knowledge before, I might not had so many crosmans guns.
I would have tuned the first one and kept that.
You are right about the way you feel. There are way better guns out there, most for double the price or more. They perform the kind of quality control you are looking for.
Type in adult precision airguns, on google. Bet one of the first links, if not the first, will be for beeman airguns.

Edit: Typed it in, its the 3rd down, beat by Gamo... now that is a mistake.

[aznboi3644]

sorry to hear your Venom can't group.  Mine didn't group till after 750 shots...and after that it was shooting 1 inch groups at 30 yards.  I even went out hunting right after I resighted it in to check if it could hold a zero and nailed a squirrel from 30 yards offhand.

Sadly I had to return it because the linkage bent like *(&^ and gouged the bejesus outta the stock

[eat2muchrice]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I’ll try to respond to most comments.

The pictured targets are set at exactly 25 yards away from the barrel, I’m shooting off a bench with bags using the artillery hold, and I’ll pass 1 dry patch though every 50-100 rounds. I know it’s not my shooting because the groups got progressively worse than at the end of my session it would even sometimes miss the entire 1ft pellet trap. The rifle went from 1 1/2 in groups to about a 9 inch spread. Look right above the center bulls eye on the second target,  5-shots making one hole, I call that the miracle group, but that’s only once out of 500 rounds.

I’ve done almost everything I can think of except stripping it apart as to not void the warranty.  Here is a list; New Scope, $60 in pellets (5 types, 3 domed), GTR III Trigger, Polished bore with J-B paste and Goof off, Tissue tested break, Q-tip tested crown, Blue loc-tite all screws, cross tighten mounts, digital leveled scope, picked though tin removing bad pellets, 500+ rounds of break in.

This was my third Nitro Venom Dusk. First one the scope broke at around 100 rounds, it was also covered in metal grindings stuck in every crack. Second one Amazon did not package properly and UPS Cracked the scope it also had very poor welding on the weaver rail mount, it was also almost dripping with oil. This third one showed promise till this started happening and it’s doing 7-9 inch groups.

I think you guys are right, the seal is busted. I don’t have a chrono to test, I’ll ask if my local range can let me use theirs. Few issues with me replacing the seal is that it will void my warranty, second is by the time I order and install it I’ll have passed the 30 day return period from Amazon, third is if I do a complete tune and it still doesn’t work right I’m stuck with it and have wasted more money and time.

It’s just sad that I’ve tried and tried to make this work for me. I really wanted to love this rifle and gave it three solid attempts, it’s just my bad luck that all three have failed. I thought with some TLC that I could make it a decent shooter, but never expected a complete rebuild was in order.

My options are to either cut my losses and return it, or to do a complete rebuild and pray it works out. I’m going to give it a couple of days to decide.

Thanks again for letting me vent my frustrations.

[Ol'DeadEye]

How does it do at 10 yds (30-ft)

[RockWater]

Thanks for sharing all these headaches with us - now I KNOW it's not my shooting or yours. Your troubles sound very much like my Trail NP and I'm convinced it's just a POS. My gun is doing exactly the same &^^& yours is - getting worse over time. I also have a CDT trigger, tight screws, loctite, clean barrel etc. I'm shooting at around 10 meters and might as well toss a coin as to where each shot's gonna land. I do have old targets with better groups from a few weeks ago. This is only my second airgun - I sold my NPSS because it was doing the same "dang" thing. I'm gonna put the stock trigger back in and send it to Crosman - I hear they have great customer service. Maybe you can do the same.

[eat2muchrice]

Yes, I’ve called Crosman in regards to my other two Nitro Vemons and was just instructed to return them to the retailer. There are a few reasons why I was so adamant for this rifle to work for me. The most important factor is that my loving wife bought me this rifle for my birthday. She spent days researching, learning, calling around and asking people all about air rifles, which she knew nothing about to find me the perfect gift. Her eyes were filled with excitement upon me opening it up and that created the instant bond for me to love anything she had chosen. Also besides my inability to make this rifle shoot properly I love all the features, price and looks of it. It is kind of heart breaking knowing that I’ve tried so hard to make it work out and it’s just not performing within reasonable tolerance.

“Ol’DeadEye”  No, I have not tried shooting it at 10 yards. I do know that the barrel’s plastic seal is not level and it makes a bull thud sound sometimes when it shoots, bottoming out hitting my wooden table where my target trap stands on.

[Lambchops]

Yes, I’ve called Crosman in regards to my other two Nitro Vemons and was just instructed to return them to the retailer. There are a few reasons why I was so adamant for this rifle to work for me. The most important factor is that my loving wife bought me this rifle for my birthday. She spent days researching, learning, calling around and asking people all about air rifles, which she knew nothing about to find me the perfect gift. Her eyes were filled with excitement upon me opening it up and that created the instant bond for me to love anything she had chosen. Also besides my inability to make this rifle shoot properly I love all the features, price and looks of it. It is kind of heart breaking knowing that I’ve tried so hard to make it work out and it’s just not performing within reasonable tolerance.

“Ol’DeadEye”  No, I have not tried shooting it at 10 yards. I do know that the barrel’s plastic seal is not level and it makes a bull thud sound sometimes when it shoots, bottoming out hitting my wooden table where my target trap stands on.

I'm sorry to hear that. From what I see, you have three choices, purchase a new seal and instal it with a spring compressor, 2) send it to Shadow to have him tune it for around $115, 3) give up and return it.

[Ol'DeadEye]

I was wondering about shorter distances, because I thought that was the first test of any airgun.
I have a Benji Trail NP 22 cal, and a Crosman 1077 and they both shoot real tight groups at 30 ft. 
The 1077 has about the worst trigger action of anything in the world but still shoots tight at that short range, and I'm an old guy with bad eyes behind the controls.
I've never touched anything on them, right out of the box stock.
It did take me awhile to get the hold right.  I shoot off my range bag from a casual bench/table, resting the rifle directly on the bag at the balance point just in front of the trigger guard.  I use a very loose fit on the shoulder and a loose grip on the right hand with my thumb up alongside the action.  I never grip with my thumb over. My left hand lightly touches the butt plate at the bottom.
The artillery hold doesn't give me as consistent results from the bench.

What caliber and pellet weight are you shooting?
I get the best results from my Gamo Big Cat with the 10.5 gr Crosman Premiers in 177 cal.
The Big Cat shoots pretty hard and I think it needs the  heavier pellet to slow things down to more stable velocities.
 Just my thought, I'm certainly no expert.  But I do like to experience things for myself before giving up and relying on the experts.
p.s. A nice pcp gun eliminates these problems.  But it gets almost boring shooting them at short distances.
Come over to the Dark Side. Heh - heh - heh...

[Treb37]

My Venom drove me nuts too but I finally did get it to shoot well. I do still notice that after 75-100 rounds it's best to set it down for a while. Not sure if its me or the rifle but one of us gets fatigued. The artillery hold is key and so is barrel pivot and stock screw torque. At one point I was able to change POI by 1" at 10 yds by just changing the torque on the two front stock screws.....The seal gave up as I was shooting .68 cal paintballs off golf tees at 35 yds. Up until the seal failed I was hitting them about 60% of the time with my most accurate pellets.

     Now that the piston seal finally gave up after 6000+ rounds I called crosman to order another seal. The gal asked me when I bought the rifle and I told her it was still under warranty I bought it in Jan. She just sent the seal at no charge...... Kind of like saying thank you for taking the initiative to do it yourself. Yeah it would be fun for a while if the rifle shot 20 rounds thru the same hole every time but then where would you be? Looking for something else to figure out or work on. Just think how much more satisfying it would be if you figured it out instead of giving up.  Its not about the results it's about the journey (but good results are sure fun too)