Hatsan 125TH .25 - accuracy testing (cosmetic issues overlooked)... PART III

[microsalmo]

Happy Easter everyone  .  It's a beautiful day here in FL!

I completed my first round of accuracy testing, and I must say... I am officially forgiving this guns cosmetic issues.  Earlier, I had reported that the bluing on mine was great except for one small area - I lied.  Get the gun out in the sun, and it's truthfully an absolute mess.  The bluing itself is very deep and consistent, but the meal finish beneath is smeared, scuffed, scratched, nicked, fingerprinted,blotched, and anything else you can think of.  My action is an absolute mess, end to end, but the barrel is good other than the earlier mentioned tiny blemish.  But, officially, I've decided that for less then $200 shipped, 32 FPE, and superb accuracy, I'm going to forgive the poor cosmetics, and accept the mess as "character" from Hatsan's early beginnings.

The trigger - ah yes.  I loved this thing on the chrony, and I still love it.  I agree now, the second stage pull is to heavy.  For testing, I left the trigger settings as they came form the factory.  Everything is still smooth, but if I could get the second stage down from 6 lbs to 1-2 lbs, the groups would certainly improve long range.  But as for 30' to target, with the gun laying on a Caldwell bag - oh my    These are 5 shot groups guys.  Enjoy - Steve



Beeman Crow Magnum 26.23 gr




Predator Polymag 26 gr




H&N Sport Field Target Trophy 19.91 gr





H&N Sport Baracuda 31.02 gr





JSB Exact kings 25.39 gr





Benjamin Domed 27.8  gr





RWS Superdome 31 gr





These results were all repeatable for the few hours I shot this morning.  The RWS Superdomes were terrible in this gun, no ifs-ands-or-buts.  If you look closely at the pellet in the photograph, you can see a ring around the base of the dome.  I have never seen this design before.  Then if you look closely on the paper, you can clearly see the imprint of the dome & ring imprinted on the target.  They clearly are not key-holing.  Why they would shoot so terrible when everything else shoots well is a mystery to me.  Everything else shot quite good at 30' except the Benjamin Domed.  When loading them, I could tell there was inconsistency in the head sizes, which is a shame because when they were uniform, they shot straight.  My big surprise was the accuracy of the Crow Magnums and Polymags.  Considering this is at it's heart a hunting rifle, that couldn't have worked out better.

[Tarheel]

Steve,

Another great post !

We really need this type of information to be posted, here on GTA. Granted, each rifle is different, but it give us valuable comparative data !

Dave

[Bryan Heimann]

Dang.  That's pretty doggone impressive.

[microsalmo]

Im glad this was helpful. I have got 5 more types of pellets to test. As soon as my bicep heels up, I'll get back to it....

Gamo Rocket
H&N Match
H&N Hollow Point
H&N Silver Point
Benjamin Destroyer

I have got 150 pellets through it now. Something worth mentioning.... mine was caughing up clear oil in the area of the breech seal for about 100 shots.  It also smoked very lightly every once in a while for the first 100 shots or so. That has all stopped now.  The gun continues to get smoother.

[Charles Outdoors]

Im glad this was helpful. I have got 5 more types of pellets to test. As soon as my bicep heels up, I'll get back to it....

Gamo Rocket
H&N Match
H&N Hollow Point
H&N Silver Point
Benjamin Destroyer

I have got 150 pellets through it now. Something worth mentioning.... mine was caughing up clear oil in the area of the breech seal for about 100 shots.  It also smoked very lightly every once in a while for the first 100 shots or so. That has all stopped now.  The gun continues to get smoother.

  When I was a teenager I put my cousin in his place. He had been working out and was arm wrestling my uncle and winning. My uncle suggested he arm wrestle me and he laughed. He wasn't laughing when I beat him. I'd been pumping Benji's and Sheridan's since I was 10 and alomst every day.   
I felt like I was ready again after cocking that 125th 3 days and 400 or so pellets later.

[Paul68]

I have got 150 pellets through it now. Something worth mentioning.... mine was caughing up clear oil in the area of the breech seal for about 100 shots.  It also smoked very lightly every once in a while for the first 100 shots or so. That has all stopped now.  The gun continues to get smoother.

Yours is sounding more and more like mine. Mine did the same. In addition, there is tons of oil inside the stock area where you cannot reach, which during recoil is then flung out of the stock onto everything else.

Also.. "Get the gun out in the sun, and it's truthfully an absolute mess.  The bluing itself is very deep and consistent, but the meal finish beneath is smeared, scuffed, scratched, nicked, fingerprinted,blotched, and anything else you can think of."

On mine though, it is the barrel that is a mess.

I would suggest taking your targets out to at least 25 yrds. I got the same results at 10 yrds, but at 25 yrds its another story. I don't believe ten yards is nearly enough to get a good evaluation of accuracy as even poorly performing guns can do well at such distances.

Mine has loosened up considerably. In fact, now it is TOO loose. At least at the pivot; the action is still very rough, but not as bad as out of the box. Whereas before the pivot was tighter than Scrooges wallet, now the barrel will flop up and down quite freely with no resistance at all, which is not good.

In my case, a teardown is in order.

Hope yours continues to perform well Micro.

[sawtoothscream]

awsome. my gun shoot the preds and the exacts great.    Im going to order baracudas, crowmags and a afew others to try as well

[microsalmo]

Paul68, thank you for the feedback. 

I respectfully disagree though... on the target thingy.  On all my air guns, when new, and after a tune, I always start close and work out to 20 yards, then to 40 yards.  It's just my way of enjoying the process, learning the riffle, and learning which pellets have potential down range, and which ones don't.  My short range printing has served me real well in the past in determining which pellets will stay stable at distance.  It's a fuzzy logic to be sure, but if you study how the pellet groups & enters the paper, the better ones will start to reveal themselves... even at 30'.  For example, the below photograph represents some work I was doing with my Ruger Airhawk at close range.  Like the Hatsan, I was determining which rounds would do well at distance.  This process helped me narrow the choices down, and master the gun's tendencies.  I've found that if I jump to range, inaccuracy may not be the gun or pellet, but rather my unfamiliarity with the riffle.  That Airhawk now shoots sub .50" groups at 20 yards with several different pellets.



As it pertains to this gun in particular, I am not comfortable moving the target out to 20 yards until I figure out how to lighten the trigger pull.  So far, to get this Hatsan to perform, it has been a lesson in maintaining stability while snapping through the second stage.  I have not been able to use my preferred slow squeeze with good results yet.  I don't think the quick finger snap will fly at range, so for now, I'm tinkering at 30'.  I do respect & enjoy your threads & input, but on this one, it's just my way... a quirky one, yes... but none the less; mine 

Interesting what you say about the oil in the stock.  That must have been where mine was coming from.  I couldn't figure out why it was all over the breech, on the OUTSIDE of the breech seal???  I wiped it off every time I would load a pellet, and it would return with each shot.  It's gone now at least... and what you said makes good sense to me - thanks.  'm glad it wasn't coming through the transfer port.  I did run some dry patches through at 100 shots, and they were pretty darn clean - just had a little lead dust on them.

On a side note,  just so that I understand.... yours was shooting groups like this at 30' but not at 60'?  That's all foreign to me.  When I tuning my NPSS, Trail NP, & Airhawk, I could often tell which pellets would do well at range shooting at 30' first.  Granted there is always that one pellet that somehow always shoots better than the rest at 40 yards away... is that what you are talking about?  Maybe there is a parallax issue in your scope if it one holed at 30' then shot poorly at 75'?  Either way, we'll get to the bottom of it.  I'll get this one to range - just not yet.  It needs some more settling & a lighter trigger.

This gun continues to get smoother cocking & shooting.  I am eager to get a few hundred more rounds through it.  Another batch of pellet testing should help move in that direction.

 

 

[microsalmo]

[/quote]

  When I was a teenager I put my cousin in his place. He had been working out and was arm wrestling my uncle and winning. My uncle suggested he arm wrestle me and he laughed. He wasn't laughing when I beat him. I'd been pumping Benji's and Sheridan's since I was 10 and alomst every day.   
I felt like I was ready again after cocking that 125th 3 days and 400 or so pellets later.
[/quote]

lol!  My arm is certainly missing my Trail NP this week!

[microsalmo]

awsome. my gun shoot the preds and the exacts great.    Im going to order baracudas, crowmags and a afew others to try as well

cool, keep us posted on how they do.  don't know why, but I can't wait to shoot a Gamo Rocket through this thing, lol

[Paul68]

Paul68, thank you for the feedback. 

I respectfully disagree though... on the target thingy.  On all my air guns, when new, and after a tune, I always start close and work out to 20 yards, then to 40 yards.  It's just my way of enjoying the process, learning the riffle, and learning which pellets have potential down range, and which ones don't.  My short range printing has served me real well in the past in determining which pellets will stay stable at distance.  It's a fuzzy logic to be sure, but if you study how the pellet groups & enters the paper, the better ones will start to reveal themselves... even at 30'.  For example, the below photograph represents some work I was doing with my Ruger Airhawk at close range.  Like the Hatsan, I was determining which rounds would do well at distance.  This process helped me narrow the choices down, and master the gun's tendencies.  I've found that if I jump to range, inaccuracy may not be the gun or pellet, but rather my unfamiliarity with the riffle.  That Airhawk now shoots sub .50" groups at 20 yards with several different pellets.



As it pertains to this gun in particular, I am not comfortable moving the target out to 20 yards until I figure out how to lighten the trigger pull.  So far, to get this Hatsan to perform, it has been a lesson in maintaining stability while snapping through the second stage.  I have not been able to use my preferred slow squeeze with good results yet.  I don't think the quick finger snap will fly at range, so for now, I'm tinkering at 30'.  I do respect & enjoy your threads & input, but on this one, it's just my way... a quirky one, yes... but none the less; mine 

Interesting what you say about the oil in the stock.  That must have been where mine was coming from.  I couldn't figure out why it was all over the breech, on the OUTSIDE of the breech seal???  I wiped it off every time I would load a pellet, and it would return with each shot.  It's gone now at least... and what you said makes good sense to me - thanks.  'm glad it wasn't coming through the transfer port.  I did run some dry patches through at 100 shots, and they were pretty darn clean - just had a little lead dust on them.

On a side note,  just so that I understand.... yours was shooting groups like this at 30' but not at 60'?  That's all foreign to me.  When I tuning my NPSS, Trail NP, & Airhawk, I could often tell which pellets would do well at range shooting at 30' first.  Granted there is always that one pellet that somehow always shoots better than the rest at 40 yards away... is that what you are talking about?  Maybe there is a parallax issue in your scope if it one holed at 30' then shot poorly at 75'?  Either way, we'll get to the bottom of it.  I'll get this one to range - just not yet.  It needs some more settling & a lighter trigger.

This gun continues to get smoother cocking & shooting.  I am eager to get a few hundred more rounds through it.  Another batch of pellet testing should help move in that direction.

 

Nothing to disagree about Micro. I have targets set at 10, 25, 30 and 50 yrds to do pretty much exactly as you are, testing and moving out as I learn more at each range. You just haven't reached the 20 yrd mark yet is all.

However my point is, I do think you're giving the Hatsan praise too soon. 10 yrds is a simple and easy range, which this gun will certainly never find itself suitable for, and is definitely too short to allow the guns characteristics enough time to fully manifest in the pellets flight,  thus good results at 30' really means little.  At short ranges, the characteristics of the gun do not have enough time and distance to fully manifest. You may have a right pull that is barely perceptible at 30 feet, but at 75 feet will be unmistakeable.



I understand learning the gun, particularly with this model. It is difficult to master for a fact. I am still nailing down my technique with it.

I guess all I am saying is, good groups at 10 yrds can be done with an average rifle with some practice. Wait till you get out to the ranges this 125 is supposed to excell at before getting impressed. I have already done the short, mid, and long range testing, and I think you are in for an interesting ride

[sawtoothscream]

I only got out to 20 yds so far.   I dont have a shooting bench at my house so im using a pool ladder and a stool lol.  last few groups at 22 yds could be covered with a quarter easy.   cant really get out to loger ranges until I get my replacement scope and go to the gun range

[Mike 4888blues]

Happy Easter everyone  .  It's a beautiful day here in FL!

I completed my first round of accuracy testing, and I must say... I am officially forgiving this guns cosmetic issues.  Earlier, I had reported that the bluing on mine was great except for one small area - I lied.  Get the gun out in the sun, and it's truthfully an absolute mess.  The bluing itself is very deep and consistent, but the meal finish beneath is smeared, scuffed, scratched, nicked, fingerprinted,blotched, and anything else you can think of.  My action is an absolute mess, end to end, but the barrel is good other than the earlier mentioned tiny blemish.  But, officially, I've decided that for less then $200 shipped, 32 FPE, and superb accuracy, I'm going to forgive the poor cosmetics, and accept the mess as "character" from Hatsan's early beginnings.

The trigger - ah yes.  I loved this thing on the chrony, and I still love it.  I agree now, the second stage pull is to heavy.  For testing, I left the trigger settings as they came form the factory.  Everything is still smooth, but if I could get the second stage down from 6 lbs to 1-2 lbs, the groups would certainly improve long range.  But as for 30' to target, with the gun laying on a Caldwell bag - oh my    These are 5 shot groups guys.  Enjoy - Steve



Beeman Crow Magnum 26.23 gr




Predator Polymag 26 gr




H&N Sport Field Target Trophy 19.91 gr





H&N Sport Baracuda 31.02 gr





JSB Exact kings 25.39 gr





Benjamin Domed 27.8  gr





RWS Superdome 31 gr





These results were all repeatable for the few hours I shot this morning.  The RWS Superdomes were terrible in this gun, no ifs-ands-or-buts.  If you look closely at the pellet in the photograph, you can see a ring around the base of the dome.  I have never seen this design before.  Then if you look closely on the paper, you can clearly see the imprint of the dome & ring imprinted on the target.  They clearly are not key-holing.  Why they would shoot so terrible when everything else shoots well is a mystery to me.  Everything else shot quite good at 30' except the Benjamin Domed.  When loading them, I could tell there was inconsistency in the head sizes, which is a shame because when they were uniform, they shot straight.  My big surprise was the accuracy of the Crow Magnums and Polymags.  Considering this is at it's heart a hunting rifle, that couldn't have worked out better.

Hey Micro.
 far as your trigger goes,  get the 3mm x16mm flat bottom allen screws

Happy Easter everyone  .  It's a beautiful day here in FL!

I completed my first round of accuracy testing, and I must say... I am officially forgiving this guns cosmetic issues.  Earlier, I had reported that the bluing on mine was great except for one small area - I lied.  Get the gun out in the sun, and it's truthfully an absolute mess.  The bluing itself is very deep and consistent, but the meal finish beneath is smeared, scuffed, scratched, nicked, fingerprinted,blotched, and anything else you can think of.  My action is an absolute mess, end to end, but the barrel is good other than the earlier mentioned tiny blemish.  But, officially, I've decided that for less then $200 shipped, 32 FPE, and superb accuracy, I'm going to forgive the poor cosmetics, and accept the mess as "character" from Hatsan's early beginnings.

The trigger - ah yes.  I loved this thing on the chrony, and I still love it.  I agree now, the second stage pull is to heavy.  For testing, I left the trigger settings as they came form the factory.  Everything is still smooth, but if I could get the second stage down from 6 lbs to 1-2 lbs, the groups would certainly improve long range.  But as for 30' to target, with the gun laying on a Caldwell bag - oh my    These are 5 shot groups guys.  Enjoy - Steve



Beeman Crow Magnum 26.23 gr




Predator Polymag 26 gr




H&N Sport Field Target Trophy 19.91 gr





H&N Sport Baracuda 31.02 gr





JSB Exact kings 25.39 gr





Benjamin Domed 27.8  gr





RWS Superdome 31 gr





These results were all repeatable for the few hours I shot this morning.  The RWS Superdomes were terrible in this gun, no ifs-ands-or-buts.  If you look closely at the pellet in the photograph, you can see a ring around the base of the dome.  I have never seen this design before.  Then if you look closely on the paper, you can clearly see the imprint of the dome & ring imprinted on the target.  They clearly are not key-holing.  Why they would shoot so terrible when everything else shoots well is a mystery to me.  Everything else shot quite good at 30' except the Benjamin Domed.  When loading them, I could tell there was inconsistency in the head sizes, which is a shame because when they were uniform, they shot straight.  My big surprise was the accuracy of the Crow Magnums and Polymags.  Considering this is at it's heart a hunting rifle, that couldn't have worked out better.

 Hi Micro.
 ask sawtooth scream lol if  he has any more extra screws left  I gave him the info on the
 3mm x16mm flat bottom metal allen screws he bought them,they come in a 50 count, he may still have some left, he has been giving the rest to those who ask.

 the longer screws will need easy but specific instructions for a safe and wonderful trigger.
 if you want to purchase your own pm me i will tell you where and message you the correct installation procedure/ 
Mike

[Trondyne]

Earlier, I had reported that the bluing on mine was great except for one small area - I lied.  Get the gun out in the sun, and it's truthfully an absolute mess.  The bluing itself is very deep and consistent, but the meal finish beneath is smeared, scuffed, scratched, nicked, fingerprinted,blotched, and anything else you can think of.

Great post..

I just got mine out in the sun today and wow..  I have a two tone bluing on the barrel..  It's a darker tone 2/3rds of the front end and clearly lighter tone on the 1/3rd closest to the stock..yikes..!  A bit annoying and disappointing... 

Not sure about power, since it wouldn't even shoot through one fairly thin 200 page book I have that was water damaged...very hard hardcover though.. yet the pellet deformation (Kodiak) was more severe than I have ever seen before so I guess I need a chrony or a phone book lol to get more of an idea...

Jim

[Lambchops]

I may be wrong, but some guy recently posted his Hatsan 125 .22 ripped through a 500 pg phonebook... but a simple $70 chrony from Wally World can fix that.

[Bryan Heimann]

A chrony is definitely a useful tool, but these penetration tests still carry weight imho.  It's really nice to know that your airgun will penetrate a phonebook.  I bet that the 135 will do a 2x4 in .25 cal, i can't wait to see

[Paul68]

Just tried this using 21 gr barracudas out of my 125.

An old 500 page shop manual.
@ 30 feet, little over 1/4 penetration

@ 15 feet, 1/2 penetration.

Also. At 10 yrds, it puts a barracuda a little over 3/4 of the way through a 2"x2" pine stake.

[sawtoothscream]

shipped out a bunch of screws today.  still have  like 26 left.

[Tarheel]

shipped out a bunch of screws today.  still have  like 26 left.

Mark,

"Papa Bear to Homeplate : The Bun is in the Oven"

("Hogan's Heroes" quote, for those of you old enough to remember . . . LOL !)

Dave

[bluzjamer]

shipped out a bunch of screws today.  still have  like 26 left.

Mark,

"Papa Bear to Homeplate : The Bun is in the Oven"

("Hogan's Heroes" quote, for those of you old enough to remember . . . LOL !)

Dave

HAHAHAHA....we are getting old now aren't we.

What isn't funny is the condition they're shipping these guns out in. Barrels loosening up after a couple of hundred rounds. I'd send these back while you still can. Hatsan has to do better.
this Walther Falcon Hunter fiasco has really soured me. If you spend this kind of money on a firearm it will last you forever. Never have I ever had one firearm fall apart. I have some that I've had over 40 years. Air gun manufacturers need to re learn some basics here. Measure twice and cut once. Do not leave it to the airgunners to sort out. My $.02 as always.