Chart showing minimum fpe to kill various animals

[Habanero69er]

I was always told: 2FPE x 1lb of animal body weight. So a 10lb raccoon would take 20FPE to humanely dispatch.

  I have never killed a coon that small and always used way less power than that. I kill 20 to 25 lb coons with 12 FPE, one shot well placed in the brain and dead. Your results may vary, but I know what I can do. Coons in a trap get the 8fpe treatment point blank, inches from the brain. Dead, one shot.

   Head shots are all I ever take on coons after an experience 25 years ago with a .22 powder burner and 5 shots to the engine room and the coon was still walking. #6 went to the head and it dropped. Since then brain shots only for me on them

   Again, MY expriences. NOT saying this is what YOU or anyone else should do.

The 10# coon was only a hypothetical number. The 2FPE x 1lb formula is just a rule of thumb so as to cover head or vital organ shots & still does not cover 100% of all situations. 8FPE point blank is at the muzzle, not out beyond 25yds, where velocity/FPE has dropped.
Even a blank gun can kill you if you hold it to the side of your head.

[DavidS]

As a Boar you mean Hog ? .....never heard of a Pumper that gets more than 20 FPE

I was only saying that his chart puts a head shot Boar kill at 16FPE and most of my .22 cal pumpers can do more than that.

I would never take that shot with a .22 cal pumper.

Most .25 cal pumpers produce more than 27FPE (including the 2 a friend made for me).

[DavidS]

I was always told: 2FPE x 1lb of animal body weight. So a 10lb raccoon would take 20FPE to humanely dispatch.

  I have never killed a coon that small and always used way less power than that. I kill 20 to 25 lb coons with 12 FPE, one shot well placed in the brain and dead. Your results may vary, but I know what I can do. Coons in a trap get the 8fpe treatment point blank, inches from the brain. Dead, one shot.

Yes and a 9FPE Pumper can do it at close range with the correct pellet (I have done it) for a 25 pound coon.

   Head shots are all I ever take on coons after an experience 25 years ago with a .22 powder burner and 5 shots to the engine room and the coon was still walking. #6 went to the head and it dropped. Since then brain shots only for me on them

Agreed 100%.

   Again, MY expriences. NOT saying this is what YOU or anyone else should do.

Yes I would not recommend it either.   It can be a bit dangerous.

[stonykill]

I was always told: 2FPE x 1lb of animal body weight. So a 10lb raccoon would take 20FPE to humanely dispatch.

  I have never killed a coon that small and always used way less power than that. I kill 20 to 25 lb coons with 12 FPE, one shot well placed in the brain and dead. Your results may vary, but I know what I can do. Coons in a trap get the 8fpe treatment point blank, inches from the brain. Dead, one shot.

   Head shots are all I ever take on coons after an experience 25 years ago with a .22 powder burner and 5 shots to the engine room and the coon was still walking. #6 went to the head and it dropped. Since then brain shots only for me on them

   Again, MY expriences. NOT saying this is what YOU or anyone else should do.

The 10# coon was only a hypothetical number. The 2FPE x 1lb formula is just a rule of thumb so as to cover head or vital organ shots & still does not cover 100% of all situations. 8FPE point blank is at the muzzle, not out beyond 25yds, where velocity/FPE has dropped.
Even a blank gun can kill you if you hold it to the side of your head.

 which of course is WHY I said point blank in a trap. I NEVER said I would try that at 25 yards with a .177.   I don't talk hypotheticals. I'm only interested in real world results.

[hammer0419]

I think your chart is poorly misleading for some one that lacks knowledge. The MAIN IDEA behind any hunting is to dispatch your game as quickly and humanely as possible. Are you serious with your 2, 3 fpe on most of these animals??? Of all of them, a raccoon and ground hog for their size are incredibly tough animals. You should get some correct info before you post such poor info.

[stonykill]

I think your chart is down right garbage and very poorly misleading for some one that lacks knowledge. The MAIN IDEA behind any hunting is to dispatch your game as quickly and humanely as possible. Are you serious with your 2, 3 fpe on most of these animals??? Of all of them, a raccoon and ground hog for their size are incredibly tough animals. You should get some correct info before you post such bs.

 in violation of rules # 2, #6 and # 13.

  We are a friendly forum who can respectfully disagree.

[CarsonRatSniper]

Hammer - if you would have actually READ and UNDERSTOOD my postings you would know that ZERO testing has been done and my chart is an absolute boiler plate starting point for which I will BEGIN testing from.
You should actually pay attention to what you are reading and learn how to control your emotions on how you react.
The ONE thing I can say with 100% CERTAINTY is a 20 grain .22 caliber moving at 500 fps will absolitely kill a deer with a brain shot. I use Aguila Super Colibris in my North American Arms Black Widow with a 2" barrel for my coupe de gras gun.
My son shot a 135# doe at 50 yards with a 150 grain soft point from his 30/30. It hit her a bit farther back than intended and she was still trying to get up when we got to her.
One Super Colibri to the back of her head and she was instant lights out.

It really doesn't matter if you agree or not - this is hard data on what gets to the organ.

Go back and read my postings again: I only advocate body shots!

This kind of knee jerk reaction is what I get from a lot of people who base what they say on nothing more than their OPINION!

I don't care how you 'feel' about it - I care about real world hardcore data results.

We can debate morality later......

[stonykill]

 point blank Carson? I assume so by your wording. THIS to me is very good information. Thanks!

[DavidS]

@CarsonRatSniper:
Thank you very much for attempting to give hard data.  I know that a 11FPE .22 AirGun shooting a 21.2 grain bullet (yes I said bullet [one for a black powder muzzle loader]) will take a small buck Deer every time with a well placed head shot.

I do not cut it that close any more, though when young I used to do this with 392.

[CarsonRatSniper]

It was a 'contact' shot - very point blank 

Tomorrow I start testing - I will post results but won't be able to update my chart until I'm back at work on Saturday........

[JonnyReb]

 When i was younger and dumber i used to shoot cows out in a friends backyard pasture with a 1970's daisy co2 pistol of some kind. With an absolute perfectly placed shot they would sometimes moo and kick a bit. Otherwise they would ignore me.   

[DavidS]

It was a 'contact' shot - very point blank 

Tomorrow I start testing - I will post results but won't be able to update my chart until I'm back at work on Saturday........

Which was it, contact, or point blank?   With most of my guns and scopes Point blank is the range from 9 yards to 28 yards.

See:
http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/trajectorypbr2.swf

[dk1677]

Please guys keep it civil or the thread will go bye bye

[stonykill]

It was a 'contact' shot - very point blank 

Tomorrow I start testing - I will post results but won't be able to update my chart until I'm back at work on Saturday........

Which was it, contact, or point blank?   With most of my guns and scopes Point blank is the range from 9 yards to 28 yards.

See:
http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/trajectorypbr2.swf

  When I say point blank I mean inches from the target.

[CarsonRatSniper]

Contact = muzzle was touching the target.
  = Sarcasm at HOW point blank

I always sight my guns in based on MPBR and diameter of the kill zone but that is a subject for another thread.

[DavidS]

Contact = muzzle was touching the target.
  = Sarcasm at HOW point blank

I always sight my guns in based on MPBR and diameter of the kill zone but that is a subject for another thread.

Ok thank you for that clarification.   I had actually asked because I was curious which you meant.

[CarsonRatSniper]

Ok guys, I am ready to make recommendations on .177 & .22 for body shots.
It works out to these figures:
.177 = 3.5 ft lbs / inch of penetration
.22 = 4.5 ft lbs / inch of penetration

Ballistic media was newsprint cut into 5"T x 4.5"W squares, stacked together, soaked in water overnight then drained for 30 minutes this morning.
The stack I tested with was 8" in total thickness (depth).
The stack was isolated in a cardboard box so no movement would occur upon impact and the face of the box was removed so the projectile directly impacted the stack.
My chronograph was placed 1" away from the face of the stack and the muzzle was 1' from the chronograph - shot distance was roughly 2'.
I used a .125" wooden dowel pushed into the stack to the rear of the pellet and that distance was recorded on the dowel then measured with a micrometer.

Here is the data:

.177
8.0 grains
584.4 fps
1.665" penetration
6.1 ft lbs
3.66 ft lbs/inch

.177
10.6 grains
519.1 fps
1.823" penetration
6.3 ft lbs
3.46 ft lbs/inch

The 8.0 grain was a Beeman Bearcub and the 10.6 grain was a Beeman Kodiak. I attribute the lower ft lbs/inch of the Kodiak to nose profile not heavier weight. The Bearcub is a slightly rounded wadcutter and not standard dome shaped.

.22
14.3 grains
424.5 fps
1.576" penetration
5.8 ft lbs
3.68 ft lbs/inch

.22
14.3 grains
789.7 fps
4.240" penetration
19.8 ft lbs
4.67 ft lbs/inch

.22
18.1 grains
726.7 fps
4.662" penetration
21.3 ft lbs
4.57 ft lbs/inch

.25
25.4 grains
737.2 fps
5.670" penetration
30.6 ft lbs
5.4 ft lbs/inch

I have not concluded .25 caliber yet as I am soaking more media to test at 65 ft lbs.

.357 will be using 77 grain pellets on Low power which is still 880 fps and 130 ft lbs out of my gun but it's what I have.

I have a couple of coconuts for skull testing using the smaller calibers

If anybody wants pictures PM me your e mail address and I will send them to you.

[CarsonRatSniper]

Coconut tests.......

Not as scientific - placed it on the ground, picked a spot on it and shot it from 4' away.
Shot was made straight on - no angles from point of impact.

Coconut was FULL of water and very hard on the outside.

Hard Shell = .160" thick
With meat = .600" thick

.177 @ 6.1 ft lbs = bounced off / left slight mark on outer shell
.22 @ 5.8 ft lbs = bounced off / left slight mark on outer shell
.22 @ 19.8 ft lbs = blew straight in / no exit
.25 @ 30.6 ft lbs = blew straight in / coconut jumped  6" / no exit

This was a thick coconut (6"W x 5"T). It would represent larger game with fairly heavy skull structure.

The .25 was well mushroomed and had clearly passed through the coconut and bounced off of the opposite side where it damaged the meat but did not crack the shell.

The .22 was also well mushroomed and was still imbedded in the meat opposite the entry side.

The coconut best represents living skull bone in hardness and porousness with some 'bounce'.

If you try this yourselves make sure to wear safety glasses. The low powered .22 pellet ricocheted off of my right shoulder.

Again, I do not advocate brain shots. This falls under 'useful knowledge' data in case you need a coupe de gras or are a trapper who chooses an air gun over a rimfire.
Keep in mind how many inches of tissue is covering the skull at the eye/ear junction as this needs to be defeated on the way in.

[Bwalton]

The coconut best represents living skull bone in hardness and porousness with some 'bounce'.



















In what animal does this represent? Opossum, Hog, ?

[CarsonRatSniper]

That's a great question.
I would have to say a wild hog based on one guy in Sacramento who did a full blown video test on a fresh wild hog head using his Mrod and 25.4 grain Kings at 100 yards.
He cut the head in half lengthwise with a band saw after he shot it to show wound tracts and I would say the skull thickness at the vulnerable points was very close to the thickness of my test coconut.