Author Topic: Update On WFH .22 bought used with bad triger 125.00( It works fine!)958 fps (Read 33764 times))

Paul68 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 22, 2012, 10:31:51 AM »

To me, when you start buying a WFH, 125, or any of the ultra magnums, you are putting power up there with accuracy, rather than accuracy above all else. That's the big focus of these guns, POWER. Now, if I had one that was putting 15-18 grains out at 1000-1100 FPS, I'd be ecstatic, and would gladly step up to working with heavier pellets to bring it down to 900-950 FPS and begin working on the accuracy. It would mean the guns is meeting its main intended objective and I could then begin working on getting it as accurate as possible. It seems kind of counterproductive to me, to buy a gun that is INTENDED to produce gobs of power, then detune it so it doesn't make full power. Wouldn't it then be easier to just buy a lower powered magnum and use standard pellets? If I was going to tune a WFH or Hatsan that is intended to make tons of power, I'm going to do it to smooth it out AND get max power, not just lower the power to make it seem like a goods shooter.

It's like buying a Hemi Cuda, then putting a governor on the carbs so you only get half throttle. You'll get a more civilized driver, but it was never meant to be civilized, just an all out animal

Tarheel · « **Reply #41 on:** March 22, 2012, 12:23:46 PM »

Quote from: bluzjamer on March 22, 2012, 10:20:51 AM

Dave do you know which gas spring is needed for the 22 wfh? Think it has the crosman NP in there.

I suspect that the ones installed by Pyramyd Air are the Crosman Nitro Pistons ( these are pretty cheap Chinese pistons ). If that is the case, you shouldn't count on anything more than "Crosman" levels of performance.

However, if you install an aftermarket, commercial gas ram, more performance is available.

The ones that are used in Hatsan 125's, Walther Talon Magnum's, and Walther Falcon Hunters are 19mm in diameter, with a stroke length of 125mm ( must be adjusted for the individual rifle ). The "RED" versions provide close to "stock" performance, while the "YELLOW" ( 177 - 180 bar ) ones step up the rifle's performance by 20% - 25% and really give it some serious power !

http://www.n-forcer.com/content/pdf/Mini.pdf ( "Mini-Forcer 19mm Pistons )

http://www.kaller.com/Catalogue/kap2gb.pdf ( Look at their "R19" pistons )

I was looking at the N-Forcer "Mini-Forcer" pistons, but I am also considering Kaller . . . Still researching !

Dave

Paul68 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:08:05 PM »

You really need to put together some comprehensive results of your gas spring research results Tarheel. Perhaps what gas springs you know will fit what AG's and their levels? I plan on going that route soon and know it would save me a lot of headache

Tarheel · « **Reply #43 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:00:41 PM »

Quote from: Paul68 on March 22, 2012, 01:08:05 PM

You really need to put together some comprehensive results of your gas spring research results Tarheel. Perhaps what gas springs you know will fit what AG's and their levels? I plan on going that route soon and know it would save me a lot of headache

As for what spring will fit what gun, that is best left up to the expert airgun-smiths and tuners. For the most part, all of the "magnum" guns use 19mm x 125mm gas rams, while "standard" guns tend to use the 19mm x 100 mm gas rams. Naturally, there are exceptions to this. I am NOT an expert !

Now, the idea of compiling my research into a single post IS a very good idea. I will start trying to do that, tonight.

Dave

z28rod · « **Reply #44 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:32:06 PM »

Now you guys are getting on to something, compiling that info. on the rams and each diff. rifle would be one of the most informative posts Ive seen in a year. Great job guys !!

Brent Reynolds

Mike 4888blues · « **Reply #45 on:** March 23, 2012, 05:32:30 AM »

So your saying that not all nitro piston rams are a like, i know i cant stand crosmans nitro piston rams they just did not do it for my taste, way to inconstant. if the wfh gets a good ram with great results I may do mine, but until then i am happy with the spring that came with it, ill wait to see what yours gets Dave
MIke

Lambchops · « **Reply #46 on:** March 23, 2012, 04:52:46 PM »

Paul, the Walther Falcon Hunters in .22 and .25 are actually surprisingly accurate. They have tons of recoil and you'd expect bad groups, but I almost always get 1/2 groups at 15 yards open sites. And I've heard lots of good things from others.

Paul68 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 23, 2012, 05:12:44 PM »

I guess I'm still getting used to the differences between PB's and AG's and how accuracy is defined. I find myself disappointed if mine won't do better than 1/2" at 25 yrds lol.

Smackey54 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 23, 2012, 05:22:39 PM »

I had done a power comparison....or rather an energy comparison between Kaller, Datco, N-Forcer, and one other gas spring and posted it somewhere here about 3-4 months ago....it compares initial (cocked) force and final force (piston extended), but I will be darned if I can find it. It was attached to a post as a graph. The delta equals the amount of force required to cock the gun....and indicates how much is released when the sear is released. The greater the delta, the greater the difference or gain in force. I am going to be going away for the weekend and don't have time to search for it, but perhaps someone else can search for it.

Tarheel · « **Reply #49 on:** March 23, 2012, 06:53:28 PM »

Quote from: Smackey54 on March 23, 2012, 05:22:39 PM

I had done a power comparison....or rather an energy comparison between Kaller, Datco, N-Forcer, and one other gas spring and posted it somewhere here about 3-4 months ago....it compares initial (cocked) force and final force (piston extended), but I will be darned if I can find it. It was attached to a post as a graph. The delta equals the amount of force required to cock the gun....and indicates how much is released when the sear is released. The greater the delta, the greater the difference or gain in force. I am going to be going away for the weekend and don't have time to search for it, but perhaps someone else can search for it.

I found it . . . I saved it when I saw it !

I think there is an ERROR in the final force on the KALLER gas ram . . . KALLER has it as 260 or 270 lbs. Remember, we are talking about 19mm diameter X 125mm stroke gas rams .

That MOELLER M90 looks interesting, but I would be concerned about a 304 lb . load on the Sear, when cocked.

CLICK TO ENLARGE ON ALL PICS . . .

Dave

Mike 4888blues · « **Reply #50 on:** March 24, 2012, 11:45:04 PM »

I am going to wait till other have done them and the ram comes back with good report.

225.00 for a sniper in camo @ American arms, I am not convinced i want one. looks heavy like a bag of bricks the wfh feels great just under 8lbs

i almost bought one 2x i had to clear the shopping cart was at check out.
the 85 x may come in any day so I need to be ready for it.

sawtoothscream · « **Reply #51 on:** March 25, 2012, 02:35:48 AM »

wish I waited a little before I ordered my 125. figures there cheaper now. o well guess ill use that $10 rebate and get a little back. The gas ram conversion sounds interesting. Who could do this conversion?

Mike 4888blues · « **Reply #52 on:** March 25, 2012, 03:49:13 AM »

hi Dave.. i am fighting so hard not to buy the sniper in camo
because it weighs 9 lbs , the Walter falcon hunter feels so good weighs just under 8 lbs.

now what gas ram do you recommend Dave ? do you have any ideal on price and info on the rams body length, and rams piston length?

if i ram this right it will be as powerful as the sniper 125.
Mike

Mike 4888blues · « **Reply #53 on:** March 25, 2012, 03:53:54 AM »

Quote from: Lambchops on March 23, 2012, 04:52:46 PM

Paul, the Walther Falcon Hunters in .22 and .25 are actually surprisingly accurate. They have tons of recoil and you'd expect bad groups, but I almost always get 1/2 groups at 15 yards open sites. And I've heard lots of good things from others.

well with open sites its hard to tel if you are causing the 1/2 groups may be better off a rest
don't you think? get one of those paint roller with a pipe thru it on a notched v shape platform for the pipe to sit in and se how the groups are/ the fellow who showed us that posted pics and the groups were much better with his rifle

z28rod · « **Reply #54 on:** March 25, 2012, 08:22:47 AM »

Is that so the forearm can roll back and foreward with recoil ?

Tarheel · « **Reply #55 on:** March 25, 2012, 10:14:40 AM »

Quote from: Mike 4888blues on March 25, 2012, 03:49:13 AM

hi Dave.. i am fighting so hard not to buy the sniper in camo
because it weighs 9 lbs , the Walter falcon hunter feels so good weighs just under 8 lbs.

now what gas ram do you recommend Dave ? do you have any ideal on price and info on the rams body length, and rams piston length?

if i ram this right it will be as powerful as the sniper 125.
Mike

Mike,

I am no expert on Gas Rams. The three manufacturers I am currently looking at are Moeller, Kaller, and N-Forcer ( in that order, for the time being ). I need more information about the Moeller gas ram, since it would place the highest load on the Sear and other Trigger components.

They are all basically the same size . . . Price is right around $60 +/- .

http://moellerpunch.com/PDF/M-NE_20Series.pdf ( M90 series - 125 length )

http://www.kaller.com/Catalogue/kap2gb.pdf

http://www.n-forcer.com/content/pdf/Mini.pdf ( MF-19 series )

Dave

Mike 4888blues · « **Reply #56 on:** March 25, 2012, 01:35:35 PM »

ok. thanks for letting me know.
225.00 for the sniper @ American arms 19.00 shipped/ Personally i want the wfh with the quattro trigger, I am beginning to realize how lucky I was to been able to grab this one for 125.00

only way I get a sniper is if I sell mt rws 350 it has the vorteck kit in it, iam tempetd to do that

Mike 4888blues · « **Reply #57 on:** March 25, 2012, 01:40:23 PM »

Quote from: z28rod on March 25, 2012, 08:22:47 AM

Is that so the forearm can roll back and foreward with recoil ?

hi bret.
yes. the post was in hatsan gate or china gate the guys shots groups were even better then he ever got, he said it wasn't his idea.l he saw it some where else maybe on another site he has pictures of it too.

Paul68 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 25, 2012, 01:44:00 PM »

Quote from: Mike 4888blues on March 25, 2012, 01:35:35 PM

ok. thanks for letting me know.
225.00 for the sniper @ American arms 19.00 shipped/ Personally i want the wfh with the quattro trigger, I am beginning to realize how lucky I was to been able to grab this one for 125.00

only way I get a sniper is if I sell mt rws 350 it has the vorteck kit in it, iam tempetd to do that

While the 125 is nice, and I too succumbed and ordered one last night, no way would I sacrifice an RWS 350 for one. I would wait awhile. You already have a WFH, and who knows, the Snipers might appear in classifieds before long

Mike 4888blues · « **Reply #59 on:** March 25, 2012, 01:54:24 PM »

Thanks Paul.
You know how it is, everything is so tempting I probably get to the rws to take picture of it and go gracious *(&^ no , i am not getting rid of this this, when its out of site its out of mind type of thing.

Your right now whats buggng me is I want the wlater falcon hunter with the quattro triger that.s really bugging me.
If i buy one, what do you think I should sell the one I have for it has the sas but not the quattro trigger

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Update On WFH .22 bought used with bad triger 125.00( It works fine!)958 fps

Author Topic: Update On WFH .22 bought used with bad triger 125.00( It works fine!)958 fps (Read 33764 times))