LDC for Benajamin 392 and 397, Interested?

[CharlieDaTuna]

Just about any of them can be adapted to a . 17, .22,  or .25 and probably a .32 caliber firearm with ease.    If there is a way that they can adapt it, they will find it and that's where they can get you.   And I would think that eventually TKO is going to get nailed and surprised that it hasn't happened yet. It it were me, I'd probably be in jail by now and a whole lot poorer.

CDT

[Lambchops]

Well then, I better stock up on TKOs!

[CharlieDaTuna]

Right Lambchops... good idea    and then pray that he doesn't get nailed and that he doesn't have a customer file data base with you in it.    If so, you (and maybe a lot of other people) could quite possibly be keeping him company and sharing the same room for quite a number of years. 

CDT

[1377x]

so it takes an administator and 3rd generation air gunsmith to get people to listen
i am not the one who brought this to their attention.i am glad someone else did though
no one wanted to listen to what i was saying
all i am doing is looking out for my fellow air gunners
i would never own a removable ldc myself.if i did want a ldc it would be permenantly attached to the barrel showing the intent is for airgun only.at least then if any thing did go problematic i would have a leg to stand on
thanks for stepping in big wigs

[MustangMike]

well if half of us on this site go missing then you guys most likely will know the reason why.

ive never seen a firearm with a barrel as thin as a crosman barrel so thats why i figured tko's were safe to use. because they only fit on a crosman barrel

[Lambchops]

Right Lambchops... good idea    and then pray that he doesn't get nailed and that he doesn't have a customer file data base with you in it.    If so, you (and maybe a lot of other people) could quite possibly be keeping him company and sharing the same room for quite a number of years. 

CDT

I'm studying law in school, so i'll be able to talk my way out of a predicament.

[MustangMike]

if he gets popped, they will find out he took payments via paypal and then the feds can get the records from paypal..

[badredbird]

he does more than sell ldcs tho , id thin k they would have to find one on a gun in your house , i thought same as mustang mike , thought too thin to fit anything else but i havent ordered one because of this thread , i live rural so really not an issue as far as being a bit louder , but i thought about it
 

[Tpatner412]

Did it occur to anyone that Mike of TKO has gone through the proper steps and had been cleared like Tim was talking about?  I don't know of he has or hasn't but it might help to ask. To adapt a TKO to a firearm would be nearly impossible IMO. You would have to essentially destroy it to get it on most barrels. And at the end of the day the adaptability of these devices to firearms is the issue.

IMO all this posturing on the legality or illegality of some of these devices is a bit much. You either buy one or not. The likelihood of the ATFE coming to your house is very small. They are after the distributors and manufacturers not consumers.

Just a few thoughts. Like many of us that shoot in our backyards (which is illegal in most areas) we take the law into our own hands when we shoot. The decision you make is your own. I bought a tko because I wouldn't have been able to shoot without it, I realized the potential for problems and took that upon myself. Some areas are lucky enough to have these devices legalized for firearms if you go through the right channels and have the money. I suppose the question is,does the ATFE regulate Airguns or not?  In Illinois that could be construed as a yes, in many other states I would contend that they might care less. Maybe it's just smarter for us to ask the questions and get responses from the horses mouth. In any case, we won't Really know until someone gets cuffed and charged with something.

[TimmyMac1]

Did it occur to anyone that Mike of TKO has gone through the proper steps and had been cleared like Tim was talking about?

I think most people think of the BATF as a threat but I don't take that view. They are doing a very tough job applying the Federal law in practice. It has nothing to do with States as the aproval process is all DC as is the testing for devices they find in use. There is the letter of the law and then there is how They apply it in real circumstances.
Technically you would be in violation to submit a device for evaluation but there is NO PENALTY for a products confiscation and failure of the BATF tests. With that in mind anyone could submit a device to DC for evaluation and possible approval.
I have been rejected a half dozen times and it is a very polite letter basically telling you "nice try but that was an illegal device and we will not be returning it. You are free to submit more devices at any time for our evaluation."
There are some pretty severe penalties if you disrespect their authority and zero downside if you go through the approval process. You only lose the pieces you send if they don't pass.
At no time in the process did I feel threatened. I felt at risk not knowing where the line in the sand was. They appreciated and accomodated my need to know.
I see them as a resource available, to make sure I don't step in it BIG!
Your mileage may vary.

[Tpatner412]

Did it occur to anyone that Mike of TKO has gone through the proper steps and had been cleared like Tim was talking about?

I think most people think of the BATF as a threat but I don't take that view. They are doing a very tough job applying the Federal law in practice. It has nothing to do with States as the aproval process is all DC as is the testing for devices they find in use. There is the letter of the law and then there is how They apply it in real circumstances.
Technically you would be in violation to submit a device for evaluation but there is NO PENALTY for a products confiscation and failure of the BATF tests. With that in mind anyone could submit a device to DC for evaluation and possible approval.
I have been rejected a half dozen times and it is a very polite letter basically telling you "nice try but that was an illegal device and we will not be returning it. You are free to submit more devices at any time for our evaluation."
There are some pretty severe penalties if you disrespect their authority and zero downside if you go through the approval process. You only lose the pieces you send if they don't pass.
At no time in the process did I feel threatened. I felt at risk not knowing where the line in the sand was. They appreciated and accomodated my need to know.
I see them as a resource available, to make sure I don't step in it BIG!
Your mileage may vary.

I like your approach very much Tim.  Personally, I don't see a reason why Mike couldn't have done that and been approved but I haven't asked him so I do not know.  My other question for you would be, concerning the ATFE, do they regulate devices for airguns since they are not considered firearms on a national level?  When they test a product that is intended for an airgun do they only test it on similarly sized firearms or are they actually looking at its effect on airguns themselves?

[TimmyMac1]

They don't regulate anything related to airguns except to test the airgun related muzzle devices on Actual Firearms.
They could care less what it is doing for the Airgun as that isn't the issue. The Issue is what that device is capable of doing on a Firearm. That is all they are in the business to care about.
If a Motorcycle Muffler could be fitted to a Firearm and make it quiet it would fall under the BATF's juristiction because they are mandated to enforce a law to make sure devices capable of reducing the report of a Firearm are not available to the American Public. It is a monumental task, they do not have adequate enforcement to apply, because a device could be so broadly defined and made from so many things and for so many things unrelated to firearms.
Airguns just represent a single source of their aggravation trying to enforce a bizarre set of rules (as law is so often) the best way they know how.

[Tpatner412]

Thanks for the added info here Tim.  Always good to get info from someone who has actually gone through the process and proper channels.

[roj]

Forgive me for resurrecting this ancient post, but I came across it in searching for a suppressor for a Crosman 2240 and was a little disturbed by it.  So, have things changed at all since 2012?  Are things a bit more reasonable and responsible with a change in administration?  (I seem to recall the previous administration purposely running guns to Mexican drug cartels in an outlandish attempt to discredit our 2nd amendment.  Fast and Furious, if you recall.)

TKO was mentioned several times as possibly being at legal risk, but I believe that their add-on moderators are still available.  (Even though they would also be removable as well.)  What's going on with the legality of this "accessory"?  Are individual citizens still at risk for trying to quietly shoot airguns in their backyards? 

[TimmyMac1]

Forgive me for resurrecting this ancient post, but I came across it in searching for a suppressor for a Crosman 2240 and was a little disturbed by it.  So, have things changed at all since 2012?  Are things a bit more reasonable and responsible with a change in administration?  (I seem to recall the previous administration purposely running guns to Mexican drug cartels in an outlandish attempt to discredit our 2nd amendment.  Fast and Furious, if you recall.)

TKO was mentioned several times as possibly being at legal risk, but I believe that their add-on moderators are still available.  (Even though they would also be removable as well.)  What's going on with the legality of this "accessory"?  Are individual citizens still at risk for trying to quietly shoot airguns in their backyards? 

ANYONE could send a TKO brake for testing and see what the result is. I suspect the thing is frangible as delrin tends to melt when it sees too much heat. If it blows apart it is OK to own.

BATF doesn't care what these things do on an airgun. They want all airgun devices sent to them so they can determine if it is illegal or not but if you don't and it is legal then you are OK. There is no mandate that you must send things to them that can be fitted to Airgun muzzles. It is a wise option IMO, since there is no downside to the procedure, if you follow it. I wanted to be confident I was not stepping over the line they draw.
The penalties are extraordinary, so there is no reason to be putting yourself at risk, since they have a clear path to follow. They asked me why I didn't summit the GEN II and I told them I knew it would pass on two of their three ways and I wanted to take their money rather than send them one free. They said it launched the front end the first shot they took.
TimmyMac1
I never sent them the Gen II brake as I knew it would pass on the permanent install basis alone. IT also passes the frangible test, as they told me when they did test it.