Turkish Webley Patriot questions

[Guthook]

Hey everybody, just joined the forum but not new to airguns. Several years back I had an original Webley Patriot air rifle in .25 caliber that I regret letting get away from me. I have been looking at the new webley guns made in Turkey and just wondered what some opinions of the rifle are. My old Patriot shot to factory specs pushing 20 grain pellets at 820 fps.
    I have searched here and saw a post or two about the new Webleys which leads me to believe not many have purchased one but I thought I would ask anyway.
    Thanks

[NitroGary0]

As many of the Webley range of guns are manufactured in Turkey now, I believe that many will by the Hatsan/Kral/Retay versions rather than pay the price hike for the Webley Name. I dont mean that as a critisism just a reality.The price variation is too much in some cases

[Korak-again]

  I bought a Turkish made Webly Longbow.  I liked everything about it except the trigger.  It was the worst trigger I have ever used. I finally gave up trying to shoot it and sold it.

  The new Hatsan's have a trigger that is supposed to be very good.

[grizzlyadams]

i have one of the new patriot quattros in 25 caliber. mine shoots 26.2 grain silver bears at about 750-755 fps(33fpe) it's a beast of a gun and i like the new quattro trigger. i'm accurate enough with it to put the pellets in a half inch bullseye at 25 yards so far. the sas system gives the gun a "ring" to it when it fires but you get used to it. while not up to par with my english patriot, it's definitely useable. very pretty wood on her too! i would like to get one in 22 also and will be doing just that in the next few weeks!

[Guthook]

  Thanks for the replies guys, I do appreciate the feedback. I've heard some good things about Hatsan, but most of the guys who loved the Webley airguns were very biased in their opinions about the Turkish made Webley's. I really want another Patriot in .25 and believe I will give the Turkish made Webley a try.

[GunnerAl]

I have both the Genuine English and a Turkish Patriot and both in .25 cal. The Turkish model had a poor fitting piston seal from new (not an uncommon problem with many Hatsan rifles -- of course you do know that most springer Webleys are Hatsans,, don't you?) and was replaced with a seal made for the English model. Although the English cylinder is slightly larger, the seal fitted into the Turkish model and appears to have done the job. As far as power is concerned, I couldn't say which is the more powerful,, only because I have never compared them side by side with a chrono,, but it might appear that the English model is the one to beat. When fired, the pellets from the English one audibly seem to take that fraction of time less to get to distant tagrets. It's just a powerhouse like no other spring air rifle. The two rifles feel quite different to use and as such, it's quite hard to compare felt recoil and other factors that might lead anyone to believe that either one might be more or less of a gun than the other. I'd have to fire up the Chrony Beta to get a full velocity comparo between the two.

I get a little worried when I see some velocity and energy figures being slung about because I know the Patriot is one awesomely powerful rifle but going by other powerful air rifles I've had or do own, I find it hard to believe some of these firgures. I have been lead to believe that it's capable of about 28 - 30 FPE max in .25 cal,, but that's not to say that this is the "be all - end all" of firgures quoted,, just that I've seem many chrono tests indicating these levels are very realistic and I don't expect any more from mine. Maybe one day I'll get my own results. I'm not a real power freak so any differences to me would be academic only, as I own both of these rifles so I can use whichever I choose on the day. I know one thing... Any poor creature being struck by a pellet from either, can count the milliseconds left to live. If ever you have owned a .177 or .22 springer and had reason to wonder if it was powerful enough to do the job, you never need entertain such thoughts with the Patriot because - It IS...!!!

Cosmetically, the English Patriot is superior to the Turkish. Better looks, better woodwork, better metalwork, better fitting, better finshing in bluing and wood finish (varnishing),, but this not as bad is it sounds for the Turkish model because the Turk is not actually that bad at all,, as a matter of fact it's quite a nice piece in its own right and I'd never tire from using it,, just like the English one. Again, ask mister bunny rabbit which was which and all he'll say is a big OUCH in either case...

Is the Turk worth buying - YES...!!!  Just make sure to have that seal checked out IF it begins to exhibit any signs of a seal failing or not fully doing its intended job...

[Guthook]

Thanks GunnerAl, I appreciate the honest comparison between the two. My Webley was tuned by Paul Watts and was getting 32ft/lbs with 20 grain pellets. Still hate I let it go but I was bit by the pcp bug and needed the cash so my my better half wouldn't throw a total fit when another new rifle showed up at the door.
  I'll be more than happy with 26 to 28 ft/lbs from the Turkish model.
   How do you rate the barrel lock up on the Turkish Patriot, my main concern is accuracy and of course dependability.
Thanks

[GunnerAl]

Thanks GunnerAl, I appreciate the honest comparison between the two. My Webley was tuned by Paul Watts and was getting 32ft/lbs with 20 grain pellets. Still hate I let it go but I was bit by the pcp bug and needed the cash so my my better half wouldn't throw a total fit when another new rifle showed up at the door.
  I'll be more than happy with 26 to 28 ft/lbs from the Turkish model.
   How do you rate the barrel lock up on the Turkish Patriot, my main concern is accuracy and of course dependability.
Thanks

Guthook, sorry for the delay in replying, between work and fishing, I've had to take time away from airguns (just this once of course)...

I'm not 100% sure of what you mean by "the barrel lock up on the Turkish Patriot". Do you mean the barrels fit when closed, ready to shoot - air tight etc...

I've never even thought about it before. I haven't noticed any barrel droop/lift or tell-tale signs of air leaks around the seals etc in either rifle. The Hatsan version is actually quite well made for what it is, and I'd rate it as accurate as the English one, afterall you have to remember that it is a link in the Patriot chain and side by side the two versions do look very similar. Holding either rifle up to the shoulder still gives me a h*rd-on (excuse my french here but this is the best way to say it) knowing just what a powerful beast they both are but even though they look very similar, they do feel a little different in balance to me. Slightly different lengths-of-pull and different angled pistol grips just make them feel like different rifles altogether. The one thing they do share in common is the weight, as bot are very heavy.

Accuracy - Yes,, I think the accuracy of either is about the same for me,, but then again, I am not too good-a-shot. I'm very average and I am willing to bet that either of them is slightly more accurate than I am capable of shooting. In the hands of a good shot I think they can be not much, but definitely, more accurate. Ontop of that I haven't tried that many different pellets in them. Jeeez, I can't even remember which pellets shoot best in each of them. I am sure one of them loves JSB Jumbos at approx 25.4 gr and the other,, oh boy, I'll have to try and find my notes - wherever they are... All I know is that I haven't tried the very heaviest pellets in my collection - H&N Baracudas at 31gr, as I'd say they are just too heavy for these guns... Opposite to you, I got intersted in .25 calibre after owning PCP's in .25 cal but I decided to stick to springers. At first I looked around and could only find very few .25'ers with springs and they were very moderately powered indeed so I temporarily gave to idea away. The Gamos and BSA's in .25 were yielding about 14 - 16 ft-lb and even though a few buddies enjoyed these rifles, I didn't really like the idea of firing them like firing a field gun (cannon), by working out the co-ordinates of where to aim first (I'm being carcastic of course about holdover - hahahaha). Then along came the Patriots, both at the same time. I didn't know which to buy, one costing 3 times the price of the other, so I bought them both, originally one for show and the other for the "Donkey" title... They are actually too much gun for me but every now and then, what fun they are...

[ranedouglas]

i have a bnib .25 patriot quattro for $320 and i'll tune it for $80 extra.   of course not as good as english - but 1/2 the price.   the new patties are much more powerful.   believe it.   i don't throw velocity #'s around - i have a chronograph (cuts right through the b.s.).   i average between 800 fps and 840 fps w/ 20 grain ftt's - each gun varies slightly, they do not all come out the same (nor do they start out the same).   paul   817-986-7767