RWS 48 Eats its 5th scope today!

[dwood5]

I'll admit I've just about had it with scopes on my 48 [.22]. Over the last 8 months it has destroyed 2 BSA Essentials, 1 Leupold VXIII 6.5-20, 1 EoTech holographic, and now my precious Hawke Sidewinder Tactical 10X.

I'll  be getting in touch with Hawke tomorrow. I hope their customer service is as good as I've read about on this forum.

I put the open sights back on this evening and think I'm just going to leave it that way for the foreseeable future.

I've got other airguns that are less "hostile" <g>

DON

[TOM aka critter99]

what are you using for a mount?

where in the scopes range of adjustment are you running the scopes?  if you are near the end of the adjustment range the scopes tend to get damaged by springer kicks.

Is you breech sealing up the cocking arm should over center at the end

is your piston slamming due to cut seal?

How old is this rifle???  They tend to damage the seals sometimes at the factory jamming them in there...seals are much cheaper than scopes 

like this one the cut would lead to piston slam and broke scopes

[Mark 611]

yep it sounds like a mechanical issue with the rifle!

[glassman98]

Don,
Hawke is very good to deal with.

[dwood5]

Don,
Hawke is very good to deal with.

Thanks for the encouragement g-man98!

Concerning the other posts, my 48 was purchased new approximately 8 months ago. I've had it apart and the piston and seal are perfect. No burrs were found anywhere. The breach seal is also perfect. The cocking arm goes 'over center' approximately 2" away from the stock. The gun actually has a smooth firing cycle as felt by the shooter.

The scopes were mounted on a UTG droop-compensating mount. The rings are steel Leupold quick-release. All screws are tight and the scope has never moved due to recoil. I don't know where the elevation/windage adjustments were, but I do know they were not anywhere near the extreme edge of adjustment.

The Hawke scope's damage was not as severe as some of the others. Several of the others lost all control of the windage/elevation adjustments. The Hawke's problem was that the crosshairs, which I think are etched on a glass plate, had rotated about 20 degrees. So holding the scope level and looking through the scope, the crosshairs formed an "X" instead of a "+".

DON

[Mark 611]

have you ran it across a chrony? if the breech seal isn't doing its job it will cause the issues your seeing, and the chrony #'s will give you an idea

[dwood5]

have you ran it across a chrony?

Hi Mark,

Yes, I keep accurate records of chrono readings. I know what they were when the gun was new and what they are currently running. No significant change.

I'm really surprised at how little this scope saga is bothering me. Usually I'd be really PO'd. I'm not. Like I said in my original post I'm [probably] going to relegate this 48 to an open-sight airgun. I've got a couple of other brands/models that are my actual favorites anyway.

DON

[amb5500c]

I have 2 model 48's and luckily I've never had a single scope problem yet. I use the cheap Center Point 4-16x40 on both of them.
Richard

[Onebaddj]

Man that thing has killed some high end optics. Ive got 2 leapers 4-16x40 scopes the have taken 1000's of rounds through my 350 with no problems. Hopefully you get it figured out. Make sure ya post what the problem was.

[dwood5]

Man that thing has killed some high end optics.

The most expensive was my Leupold VariX-III 6.5-20 E.F.R. I had it on my Feinwerkbau [which has zero recoil] for years until I bought the 48.

I paid around $600 for it years ago. Now the same scope runs around $750.

After the 48 destroyed the BSA's [4-12], I figured the Leupold would hold up w/o any problems. AOA still sells them and considers them airgun rated. [The original was not purchased from AOA]

Big mistake. I don't recall how many shots it took to wipe out totally the elevation/windage controls, I think less than 100. They no longer moved the crosshairs.

To their credit, Leupold's lifetime warranty fixed it for free. But it cost me something like $15 to ship it to them.

After the Leupold, I tried the EoTech 552 which I bought 10 years ago and never used. I went through a night-vision phase and the 552 has an NV setting. It took less than 100 shots with it until the controls became flakey. Not totally gone, just not reliable. EoTech fixed it for a flat rate of $79. I had to pay shipping to them. On the plus side, they updated the internals to a better system.

Finally, the Hawke Sidewinder Tactical 10X seemed like the one that would finally put up with the 48's recoil. It did through 1000+ shots. Then the "X" appeared in the scope's view!

Now one of the BSA's [a new one exchanged for one of the damaged ones] rides on my 601, the other BSA was returned for credit, another Hawke Sidewinder Tactical 10X is on my HW97K, the repaired Leupold is on my HW100K PCP, the EoTech 552 is on the shelf.

A new BSA Essential 3-9 is on my Ruger Air Magnum and, surprisingly, seems to be holding up just fine.

The Gamo 440 has the cheap BSA AO 4X - 32 scope on it that it came with. I'm thinking I will put the repaired Hawke on the Gamo when I get it back.

DON

[TOM aka critter99]

Scope mounts!!!!  Which Leapers mount I did the math the 34 one has 65.8 MOA droop the 460 has 54 MOA.   The RWS Lockdown mount is right at 18 MOA

Scopes hate being near their end of adjustment.  I'll bet since you rifle seems fine the adjustment range of your scope is nowhere near the center third of adjustment range.

try this 3 shots one with scope optically or mechanically centered, then one full up and one full down.

With that much droop many scopes adjustment range will be eaten up get it to zero...too much droop correction is just as bad as the original droop IF you had any.  Some scope have as little as 60 MOA full up to full down.....I think many of the Hawke line is about 75 MOA range and some models/brand have as little as 40 MOA range

I believe the trouble is not the rifle, nor the scope but the mount..if you investigate this I'll bet you have been running all the scopes in the top third of adjustment range.

At least mechanically center a scope mark a target at 10 yards and look at how far down the POI is in relationship to POA

I have the math formulas around here somewhere

also look for my thread on my barrel droop on my new HW97K Stainless finish 20 cal I was looking at droop and its closely related to what you want to know

[TOM aka critter99]

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,22745.0.html

[dwood5]

I'll bet you have been running all the scopes in the top third of adjustment range.

Hi Tom,

I can't check the previous scopes because I either no longer have them or they are mounted on other rifles.

But to put this matter to rest I just now checked the Hawke scope, the latest failure. I have a set of rollers that are designed to balance model airplane props. It provides a perfect essentially frictionless way to spin a scope and check for optical center.

The Hawke scope was optically centered left/right and was about 1/4 turn of the elevation turret off optical center up/down.

So for all practical purposes, the scope was optically centered, certainly within 1/3 of center.

Thanks for the suggestions though!

DON

[TOM aka critter99]

When they send you the new scope please try the 10 yard target routine.  I still think its the Leapers mounts have way too much droop

[dwood5]

Hi Tom,

I'm not going to scope the 48 for awhile. I have others I'd rather play with.

On another subject, how are you liking your 97K? You and I bought ours at approximately the same time although mine's a .22. I absolutely love it. It is not as powerful as my 48 but it is consistantly accurate and not nearly as "hold" sensitive.

I followed your ups and downs [no pun intended] over barrel droop with your 97. I never worried about mine. I stuck the Hawke scope on it without any compensation, dialed it in [didn't require much adjustment from optical center] and it hasn't required any adjustment since. It liked H&N Sport Field Target Trophy 14.66 gr. best.

Regards,

DON

[TOM aka critter99]

Well the HW97 required a 18 MOA barrel angle for a 30 some yard zero so I used a droop mount.  The HW97 is quite easy to shoot even though it has some twang it seems to occur after the pellet has left the barrel.  Holding off till summer to install a Vortek kit in it.  Is yours blued or silver finished?  Right now I am stuck inside Jan in Michigan not worthy. 

I am ona sidetrack with the 11/94 produced D48 right now.  I have a Vortek kit on order for it.  Right now it is using a RWS lockdown mount 18 MOA droop and a old Sportsview 3-9x32AO. 

I do not understand why Leapers made them mounts with that amount of droop if you rifle had that much droop you could easily see it.

[dwood5]

My 97K is the blued [standard, not "blue"] version with a beech stock. If it has barrel droop it is not enough to be noticed. It required very little adjustment to bring it in.

My 48, on the other hand, when I first mounted one of the BSA scopes, required just about all of the "up" adjustment to get it zeroed. That's when I installed the UTG compensating mount made for the 48. From then on, all the various scopes required little adjustment from center.

I'm not familiar with Leapers mounts [unless it is a re-branded UTG or vice-versa].

Sorry to hear about the weather. Here in California we've had nice weather except for a little rain the past few days. I have a 14-yard indoor range so weather doesn't stop me.
DON

[samTN]

I used to own a 0.22 RWS 48 and liked it very much.  I was shooting it using iron sights after it broke 2 scopes but I myself enjoy using open sights.

[dwood5]

samTN,

Interesting timing on your post. Today I decided to continue to use open sights . . . but didn't care all that much for the factory ones. It is not that there is anything wrong with them, the problem is my eyesight. I just have trouble with those sights.

Digging around through my junk drawer, I happened across the original target sights [peep sight] that came with my Feinwerkbau 601. I had never installed them on the 601 because I immediately mounted a scope.

The dovetail on them was identical to the RWS48. The height was suitable for the factory 48 front sight also, which I will continue to use.

It tended to back up under the recoil so I mounted the sight in my mill and machined a small recess for a stop pin. Now it stay's put.

Most of my groups @14 yards are around an inch. I have progressive lenses in my glasses and it is critical what part of the lens I look thru. I did happen to shoot one 5-shot group with all 5 shots touching. Probably will never happen again.

Two nice things about using the peep sight: 1) it is very unlikely that it will break, and 2) the gun is lighter.

I finally got my RMA from Hawke today and shipped the scope. I have definitely decided to mount the repaired Hawke on my Gamo Hunter 440. The Gamo is one of the older ones, I've had it apart and it seems to be fairly well made. It is quite accurate for an inexpensive rifle. I have already installed Tuna's trigger. "THAT" made all the difference in the world!

DON

[TOM aka critter99]

I wear progressive lenses ...are they a problem shooting better??

This whole barrel droop and trajectory angles has me revisiting where the scopes are sitting even on my PCPs to try and get everything living in its center 1/3 of adjustment ranges.

First time you mount a scope investigate how much droop there really is on that specific rifle.   Then you WILL KNOW if you selection of scope and mount is the "best" choice...there really is no other way.......If not the selection is just a guess