Recoil and scopes, are there issues with this?

[Mark@]

Thanks Richard and Fisherdude.

Yeah, I read years ago about getting lifetime warranties on these scopes.

Rich - The Bushnell Banner - gosh I've passed on a few of those over the years.  I'm not a brand snob by any means.  The Simmons Whitetail Expedition is one of the best scopes I've ever looked through and I'd be tempted to try one on an airgun.

I do have an old (15+ years?) Leaper in 6x32 that came on a rifle I bought over 15 years ago.  I wonder if the qualtiy was better on those back then???

[dwk54rak]

Iam not a big springer fan... That said, Why buy trouble? PCP or Co2 or multi pump have no recoil, so anything you can see through will work.
Darrell

[yoshi800]

The RWS 54 is supposed to be a recoil-less springer.  So for that particular model you don't need to worry either.

[Mark@]

Iam not a big springer fan... That said, Why buy trouble? PCP or Co2 or multi pump have no recoil, so anything you can see through will work.
Darrell

Talk about trouble....  Co2 tanks, hand pumps, valves, tendonitis.  Seriously though thanks for the input.  I'm not knocking Co2s and I have an old Crosman Medalist II pistol, but pumping it just kills my elbows.   

[Bullit]

I'm a fan of the Leapers brand.  The UTG or the 5th Generation brands are the best of their line.  I have used them on Magnums, the Diana 48/52 line.  They're tougher on scopes than the RWS 54.  Look at those 2 lines for the best that Leaper's offers.  Don't know how much magnification you are looking at,,,but for Field Target competition, you are limited to 12x.  I just used that as "my" reference.  I figured that I would be better off going by established rule, and avoid temptation....
For general targeting and hunting, I'm sure you'll see that a lot of folks like fixed power scopes.  Easier for acquisition.  Good Luck to You!

[RedFeather]

Two things I just saw.

Second one first -

The Diana 54 is also called The Scope Eater and for good reason!  Yes, it is recoil-free - to the shooter.  That's because ALL of the recoil is contained in the metal parts which slide on a track.  This is known as a sled or sledge system.  Having all of the recoil remain in the metal, instead of some being absorbed by the stock, makes them doubly hard on scopes.  Mike, the 54 is tougher still than the 48.  ALL recoil into the scope.

First one second -

Talking about air gun scopes is really talking about air guns scopes on springers.  Those are the guns that air gun rated scopes are designed for.  Saying you should skip springers and buy a pneumatic is like saying you should just buy a .22lr.  I see this all too often with pneumatic aficionados.  File that under "I'm looking for an air gun to shoot pesky starlings and only have $100 to spend."  "Skip the springers and buy yourself a FX, shoebox compressor and two scuba tanks.  You will thank me."  (Until the Visa bill comes due.)

Cheap scopes on expensive guns.  Not always the best combination but one too often seen in the shooting sports world.  It's best to buy the most scope you can afford, be it for air gun or powder burner.  Air gunners have been lucky as we can now get some good air gun rated scopes out of China for relatively cheap prices.  But quite a few think they can go as cheap as possible to buy a bit more gun or a few tins more pellets.  Sometimes the cheaper scopes give up a bit like in clarity, useful field of view (edge distortion) and extra weight.  Main thing is to match the scope to the springer.  Mild gun?  You can go with a Centrepoint or Leapers.  Magnum springer like a Diana 350?  Time to spend a few more bucks.  Otherwise, you're spending time removing the scope, sending it off for a refund, and going through the whole search, buy, mount, sight in process over again.

[Bullit]

Sorry Bud, I understand your point of the sliding action, but due to the dissipation of energy,due to the spring loaded shock absorbing system, and in consideration of the damage being done at the end of stroke, and the timing involved, I'm on the other side of the fence on the 54 vs 48.  I hope we can just agree to disagree. 
Josewales, Red makes good point of realizing how much recoil you are actually looking at with your air rifle.  I have one that has an AR15 scope on it, (talk about a rattler),and I like it very much.  But it's on a midpower (800fps) A/G.  It's a Gamo CFX.
Edited:  Sorry I mispelled Joseywales.  Added info I omitted.

[yoshi800]

Sorry for the bad info on the 54!  Guess I was wrong - my apologies.

[Mark@]

OK, so two follow up questions:

1 - Magnum is described as 1,000+ FPS?

2 - You say 12x and I had always read and experienced that most vairable scopes function best in their mid-range, so it seems like competitors are being cheated, since they can't go to 24x.  I'm doing mostly 10 meter in the basement with the .177.  I have friends in nearby states where I can hunt, so I'm not sure what power for the .22 and hunting.

3 - I have a Leapers 6x32 that is 15 years old.  It's short scope and I was wondering what the quality was of Leapers at that time.

[Random Plinker]

If it doesn't shoot worth a hoot with anything but extra heavy pellets, it might be a magnum.  If you are breaking the sound barrier with a "normal" (~8gr 177) lead pellet, it's a magnum.  I've never seen an official power level defining magnum.  In 177, something shooting ~8 gr pellets around 900 fps is approaching magnum status, but maybe hasn't quite crossed the line yet.  This is the the actual power level of most rifles claiming "1000 fps" with lead pellets.

For air gun hunting, I would advise against worrying too much over power and caliber (beyond a certain point anyway).  If you get a springer air rifle that advertises 1000 fps in 177, that rifle, and that same model rifle in 22, will take down squirrels and rabbits just fine.  I've done it with both 22 and 177 rifles of this power level.  Both work.  The important thing is putting the pellet in the head or boiler room.  Any more power than this in a springer takes very careful hold and technique to shoot well because of the recoil characteristics, and makes it harder to do what you have to.  22 seems to have a little more authority, but not by much with good shot placement.  177 has less rainbow trajectory.  Life's a compromise.

Your 6x32 Leapers sounds fine for 10M in the basement with 177 if it has an adjustable objective to focus in that close.  Be fine for hunting distances too.  Unless you want another scope, I'd give this one a try.

For an AO scope, I recently ordered an airgun rated UTG 3-9x32 with adjustable objective (aka Leapers "Golden Image") with medium height UTG two piece mounts with scope stop pin from amazon and have been pleased with both.  The scope was in the mid $40 range, the mounts were ~$10, and shipping was free.  I especially like these mounts for value.  These are two screw, not one screw mounts, plus the scope stop pin.  The scope is working out nice so far too and seems to be a very good value, though I'm not a fan of the flip-up scope covers it came with.

[RedFeather]

"Magnum" is one of those terms that has changed over time.  Used to be anything in the high 800's for .177 was called a magnum.  Then the "1000 fps" guns came out and those were the magnums.  Such power is about where a lot of the guns have settled.  Magnum now can be considered the next level of springer power, being guns like the Diana 350.  I sometimes call these uber-magnums.  Some of the heavy duty gas pistoned guns, too.  You really don't need those for most hunting.  Most are harder to shoot well, particularly the 350, and, if you are using .177's, will require heavy pellets (10.5 VS 7.9, etc).  So, a gun listed as 1,000 fps (meaning it's probably shooting somewhere in the high 800's to low 900's) can be OK for basement plinking and fine for just about all hunting situations.  A gun like the Diana 34 falls into this category, as does the R9.  Heck, if you can find a really clean old Gamo Shadow 1000, 220, 440 or 890, snatch it up.  For $30 you can install Charlie's trigger and have a pretty decent gun for cheap, although these old Gamo's were not built cheap.  Another gun on a budget that's good is the Ruger Air Hawk (BAM25) Diana 34 clones.  See Mike Melick at Flying Dragon Air Rifles for one of these.  Add his basic tune and you're ready. 

[dwood5]

Most scopes are not built to take two-way recoil.  Cheaper, heavier scopes get the worst beating since they tend to be less robust internally and the weight soaks up more shock.

Actually, the heavier a scope is the less damage recoil will do to the inside elements. Although I do agree that the cheaper heavier scopes probably are not as 'robust' inside.

For example, to take it to the absurd extreme, imagine a scope that weighs 500 pounds mounted on your rifle. I doubt that the recoil shock would even be felt by the scope components. The scope would just sit there while the rifle shook itself to pieces.

DON

[condor22]

Two things I just saw.

Second one first -

The Diana 54 is also called The Scope Eater and for good reason!  Yes, it is recoil-free - to the shooter.  That's because ALL of the recoil is contained in the metal parts which slide on a track.  This is known as a sled or sledge system.  Having all of the recoil remain in the metal, instead of some being absorbed by the stock, makes them doubly hard on scopes.  Mike, the 54 is tougher still than the 48.  ALL recoil into the scope.

First one second -

Talking about air gun scopes is really talking about air guns scopes on springer's.  Those are the guns that air gun rated scopes are designed for.  Saying you should skip springer's and buy a pneumatic is like saying you should just buy a .22lr.  I see this all too often with pneumatic aficionados.  File that under "I'm looking for an air gun to shoot pesky starlings and only have $100 to spend."  "Skip the springer's and buy yourself a FX, shoebox compressor and two scuba tanks.  You will thank me."  (Until the Visa bill comes due.)

Cheap scopes on expensive guns.  Not always the best combination but one too often seen in the shooting sports world.  It's best to buy the most scope you can afford, be it for air gun or powder burner.  Air gunners have been lucky as we can now get some good air gun rated scopes out of China for relatively cheap prices.  But quite a few think they can go as cheap as possible to buy a bit more gun or a few tins more pellets.  Sometimes the cheaper scopes give up a bit like in clarity, useful field of view (edge distortion) and extra weight.  Main thing is to match the scope to the springer.  Mild gun?  You can go with a Centrepoint or Leapers.  Magnum springer like a Diana 350?  Time to spend a few more bucks.  Otherwise, you're spending time removing the scope, sending it off for a refund, and going through the whole search, buy, mount, sight in process over again.

+1, I totally agree with all 3 points.

 

[RedFeather]

Well, a heavier scope will shear a stop more easily than a lighter one.  I think it has to do with more mass soaking up more recoil.  Once you've overcome inertia, the energy is loaded into it.  When you reach the end of the directional flow, the scope stops but the energy has to go someplace.  And, on many less expensive scopes, they make up for design or materials drawbacks by beefing up the size of the parts. 

[Bullit]

Joseywales,
Here is a link from some guys, that may help you define power levels of different air rifles. http://www.straightshooters.com/choosing-an-airgun-scope.html    Search around the site, as there's some good reading.

"LEAPERS" makes different grades of scopes.  The UTG and 5th generation are their top 2.   They also offer the "Golden Image" line, which would be the same as the Centerpoint scope, which you can see at many Wmarts.  Many folks are very happy with them.
You can have any powered scope you want in most Field Target...just can't use more than 12x, unless you wanna get upgraded to the unlimited class. A fixed 6x or 8x is great for hunting and general use, as they show more field of view than a high powered scope.   Inside of 50 yards for hunting, I wouldn't hesitate.  I personally would use your existing Leapers scope on most mid/high power airguns, and see for yourself.  If I am missing something, please bear with me, but:
What airgun are you using, or looking at?  Perhaps this could help narrow things down.
You've got some good folks here that may be able to shed insight concerning it.

[dwood5]

Well, a heavier scope will shear a stop more easily than a lighter one.   

Hi RedFeather,

That is true because the scope, being heavier, doesn't like to start moving when the rifle recoils. The scope rings and the stop pin both will be stressed more.

However, the internal structure of the scope will not "feel" the recoil as much so in theory will handle a more heavy-recoiling rifle.

A light scope doesn't offer as much resistance to whipping this way and that with recoil so its internal parts are actually being stressed more, while its stop pin and rings are stressed less.

DON

[Tater]

For an AO scope, I recently ordered an airgun rated UTG 3-9x32 with adjustable objective (aka Leapers "Golden Image") with medium height UTG two piece mounts with scope stop pin from amazon and have been pleased with both.  The scope was in the mid $40 range, the mounts were ~$10, and shipping was free.  I especially like these mounts for value.  These are two screw, not one screw mounts, plus the scope stop pin.  The scope is working out nice so far too and seems to be a very good value, though I'm not a fan of the flip-up scope covers it came with.

Could you tell me where you ordered that from? I've been looking for an inexpensive yet decent scope and that seems just right. I googled but can't find that price.

[Bullit]

He posted "Amazon" .    amazon.com   Prices are always subject to change.

[Tater]

Ooops, sorry, I missed the Amazon part.

[Bullit]

Dwood, I think you'll find that no matter the weight of the scope, that erector tube, suspension, and the optics are gonna get a workout.  I believe the thicker tubing would be more for beefing up the erector adjustment and suspension, as well as the torquing required to mount the scope, and avoid distortion.