Recoil and scopes, are there issues with this?

[Mark@]

It has been a while since I was shooting airguns, but I recall that the recoil of an airgun is more like whiplash, in that it actually recoils more toward the muzzle.  That whiplash was hard on even the most expensive firearm scopes, so much so that airgun scopes were coming with lifetime warranties.

Keep in mind, I'll be using springers, at least for a while.

Has this recoil issue changed?

Is it worse with 22, vs 177?

Am I off my rocker and it never existed?

Just tell me what the deal is.

Thanks

[gene_sc]

Use only a one piece scope mount springers and nitro pistons. Always use stop pin hole if possible. On .177 or .22

[lizzie]

If anything, the issue has gotten worse with higher velocity air rifles, so yes, it still exists. Fortunately, there are some very good inexpenseive scopes that will withstand the recoil of springers. Leaper's is the one that gets my vote.

[SAADE]

jw: you are not halucinating, the double recoil on magnum springers can be a scope killer, as gene said, one pc mounts, stop pins as needed and you have to weave your way through the jargon of "airgun rated" scopes to find out if they really hold up. A fine Bushnell or Leupold scope that would do ok on a .400 cal nitro express elephant killer, might just fall apart on an RWS Model 48 or 52 in .177 cal.

If you find  a brand and features you like, post here and elsewhere to get feedback before you buy.

[Mark@]

Thanks guys.  Yes, that was my point about firearms scopes - they won't necessarily be better.  Besides, I'm a bottom-feeder when it comes to scopes.  Not buying junk, but there are better values than a Leupy - no offense to anyone. Lifetime warranties aren't cheap.

I had a Simmons Whitetail Expedition - these were made at a different factory than other Simmons and they were crisp.  If you ever see one, grab it.  I've held them side-by-side with a VIII and there was little difference and possibly an edge to the Simmons - They were $150 retail.

My Bushnell 4200 Elite is a good value and I really like the glass on that.

Right now, for air rifle, I'm looking at Leapers.  They seem to get a good rep on these forums and aren't a ton of cash if things go wrong.  I'm considering a 50, since my eyes are getting up there.

I do have a Mueller that I really like on my 17 Mach II, but would be concerned about ruining it on an air rifle.

[SAADE]

Hawke, Leapers and even NC Star scopes (kinda low end-ish) seem to do well on many spring guns. There is also Crosman Center-Point but, I would call Crosman and talk to someone who actually knows about durability and airgun applications cause they market their scopes for firearms too and that's a bit of a red flag to me.

[william71743]

OK, I understand use airgun rated scopes, but what are stop pins ?

[SAADE]

william: A stop pin is just that, a small pin or in some cases threaded pin that is inserted through the rear mount lower cradle down into a small hole or counterbore in the receiver. Think of it as a "nail" that has been staked through the mount into the top of the gun, it keeps the mount from moving under recoil.

PS not all air guns have a stop pin hole but all stop pin mounts have a pin.

[william71743]

OK, dowel pin more or less. Thanks

[Meann-Machine]

Josey,
    your 4200 will easily handle the two way snap of the most powerful springer or gas ram as well the 3200 a good Weaver and several other good quality powder rifle scopes.

[daveshoot]

The CenterPoint at Walmart is the bottom-feeder special- not top drawer optics, but plenty good enough, and known to hold up well on springers for about 70 bucks.

I don't believe the caliber has any direct effect on the recoil the scope experiences. The high energy guns just have more whiplash, as you put it, than the milder stuff. I think the same bolt and spring in a given model are going to have about the same effect, regardless of the size of the hole at the end. I am open to correction on this but that's my take.

[Mark@]

The CenterPoint at Walmart is the bottom-feeder special- not top drawer optics, but plenty good enough, and known to hold up well on springers for about 70 bucks.

I don't believe the caliber has any direct effect on the recoil the scope experiences. The high energy guns just have more whiplash, as you put it, than the milder stuff. I think the same bolt and spring in a given model are going to have about the same effect, regardless of the size of the hole at the end. I am open to correction on this but that's my take.

I was simply thinking the springs were stronger on 22s, but I'll wait to hear the experts on that as well.  Of course, the pellet being heavier, one would think the whiplash would be the same.  Now I'm guessing that the whiplash energy will onyl change from one make/model to the other, not by caliber.  We'll see what they say...

[amb5500c]

Ha! I just noticed your signature line.
"Honey, when I die, sell my guns for what they're worth and not what I told you I paid for them."
You might ought to wait till you're on your death bed before you use that line. LOL.
Richard

[Mark@]

Ha! I just noticed your signature line.
"Honey, when I die, sell my guns for what they're worth and not what I told you I paid for them."
You might ought to wait till you're on your death bed before you use that line. LOL.
Richard

You know.  The wife is pretty good about toys, as long as I play with them.  If they sit, out the door they go.  She's even climbing onboard the SHTF wagon and letting me stock pile some canned goods, ammo, etc. 
She saw my IZH 46M the other day and thought it was really neat.  I never lie, so thank goodness she never asked how much it cost!  I'm pretty good about selling something to buy something, but some tiems I pull the trigger early. 

[supertech77]

don't forget the blue loc-tite,on the ring screws,and mount screws,and let set 24hr,s min,i use nc star freedom series scopes on both my magnum springers,3x9x50 and 3x12x56m,they have lifetime warranty,s and are spring gun rated, 

[RedFeather]

.177's and .22's use the same internals.  One reason you see the same gun but different caliber listed as "1000 fps in .177" and "800 fps in .22", actual speeds notwithstanding.  What happens in a springer, especially so in a wound-wire springer as compared to a gas ram, is that the piston shoots forward and then abruptly stops (forward recoil), then rebounds (rearward recoil) and, with the wire spring, there's a lot of residual oscillation since all of the energy can't be released to the pellet.  So you get the whip lash which sort of repeats slightly for several milliseconds.  Most scopes are not built to take two-way recoil.  Cheaper, heavier scopes get the worst beating since they tend to be less robust internally and the weight soaks up more shock.  One reason those "bottom feeder" WalMart Centerpoints don't do quite so well.  (No, they are really a nice scope but heavy and there was an issue with the set screws for the scope adjustments on early models - discussed here on the GTA.)  Leupolds are not air gun rated - out right.  They have always been air gun rated and backed by the company.  Don't know about Bushnells but the Leupolds will take it or they will give you a new one, if you ever need it.  Downside is they are pricey.  But you get what you pay for.

[uncle paulie]

Sure there are lots of really nice scopes($$$) out there but do you need one of them to shoot at a target less than 50yds. away?  Sort of like buying a Ferrari to go back and forth to the grocery store. Almost any scope AG rated and under $250 will do the job.

pv

[hafontenot]

This might help,
I have Centerpoint 4-16 x40 AO scope mounted on Beeman RS2 in 22 caliber. 1,000 shots so far and no problems. Clear, accurate, holds zero. 59 bucks at airgundepot.

[AirScopes]

I did a pretty extensive testing of these issues a while ago which actually got me into selling scopes... Double, and even TRIPLE recoil in a springer (front, back, and rotational) can shake apart a scope built for use on a firearm. Most of the time it means a scope actually has to have better internals to hold together on a springer -- especially of the magnum type. Bad mounting can exacerbate any potential issues.

There are good inexpensive scopes available, but I really think that going below $100 is taking a chance. Realize that if you are buying it for $40, it cost about $2.50 to make. At some point the lack if interest in quality parts is going to show up as a failure of one sort or another. If you are buying a cheap scope with a lot of features, it is even more likely to fail. The low cost also gets filtered into lack of quality control which means results can vary widely from one scope to the next in the same model by the same manufacturer.

Hawke makes a nice product, and I distribute both my own brand (AirScopes) and Vector Optics. All of these are made in China. All will surprise you with the quality for the price. All will hold up to springers.

The scope that I think is best among the 'inexpensive' is the Bushnell Banner 6-18x50, which you can get for just under $100 if you are diligent. Strangely enough, I recommend it but I don't sell it. The normal price of this scope brings it into the range of the Hawkes, VO and AirScopes models.

I am a dealer for Leapers, but also do not sell the scopes... There are a few good models in the bunch, but I think there are too many bells and whistles, and I have personally had some bad experiences. Leapers replaces a scope for $8 likely because that covers their cost.

I can tell a lot by my 'junk' bin where I store failed scopes, and it is laden with old Gamos and RWS scopes that come with rifle packages. Sometimes these are added to increase the value of the package, and other times they are a gimmick to just sell more.

'inexpensive' is different than 'cheap'. And 'spinger rating' is not anything but a claim by the manufacturer -- there is no industry standard except for individual testing. I test scopes on a scope-killing RWS 54, and I only sell what passes the test.

Hope that helps!

Richard

[Fisherdude]

As sai .177 and .22 have the same recoil because they have the same internals.  FYI, Natchess shooter supply sells the BSA airgun rated scopes at heavily discounted prices - better prices than anywhere else I know of.  I have used the 4X and 3x-12x scopes and shot thousands of rounds on different springers without any issues.  They also come with  lifetime guarantee.  No mater what scope you get, get one with a lifetime guarantee - I hear stories of incidents where every brand of airgun scope can have trouble and it never hurts to have that guarantee.