Detuning a 48 22 t06

[Escondido1]

As my 48 22 t06 is being assessed by John in PA......we are reviewing whether to do something more radical, yet satisfying. We just finished detuning my 34 t05 177 from 920 to 840 with a PG2....the results are super smooth, highly enhanced accuracy silent machine....very short shot cycle secondary to many rings cut from spring.

Now...back to the 48......I already have the powerhouse 350 22 pg2 tuned machine.....why have 2 mothers when most of what I shoot is in less than 30 yds....with neighbors. We don't hear much about decreased power in magnums like the 48. Why not start to take a fixed barrel and imitate the successes like the 97 or the tx200? This may produce a highly accurate, quiet smooth 48 that you could spend your day enjoying with target or wabbit.

Thoughts?

[Mark 611]

sure why not!

[amb5500c]

Go for it. But i like mine just fine the way they are.
Richard

[lizzie]

I want my 34 detuned.

[Escondido1]

We have all read the many posts from r7 owners falling over themselves on how happy they are now that they are in soft, accurate guns....well, it is an addicting process to experience a softer airgun. Their is much praise for the accuracy and 'out of the box' smoothness of the tx200 or the 97. But....they are the same weight as the 48....just 150 fps slower. So....all things equal....what if the detuning took the 48 fixed barrel to 750....would the accuracy be identical...would the smoothness, quietness and minimal recoil be recognized?

[Mark 611]

Here's the problem when you detune a gun, sometimes they don't respond well due to the the mechanics of the rifle for example the piston weight, if you slow a heavy piston down to much it becomes sluggish and doesn't give you the results your looking for! I detune allot of my rifles to smooth up the shot cycle but I don't go to far I may only lose 20 to 30fps which makes a big difference in the smoothness of the shot cycle even with a pro kit! I took a 350mag one time and did an experiment with shorting the spring length to try to achive a 12lb gun in .22cal it did help some but the recoil was still there! not quite as bad but way more that what it should have been, I think because I slowed the piston speed down so much it made it worse because of the length of travel before it hit home! just something for you to think about!

[Escondido1]

Thanks Mark and everyone.....I guess there are so many parameters to weigh.....I do know that the experience with what John did to the 34 177 recently was phenomenal....so I do want to try to reproduce that.....and unless you are hunting raccoons daily or shooting beyond 40 yds.....I don't need the phenomenal power the 48 provides in 22. I still say.....this is one fun sport! Keeps your mind thinking on how to improve........

[Mark 611]

yes it does! I do allot of tuning on guns and I perfer a smoother shooting gun more than a power house I can do the samethings with a lower powered that I can do with a cannon!

[RedFeather]

I think you will be equally pleased with your detuned 48.  54's have been successfully detuned to 12 ft lbs, so the 48, with the same power plant, should be a natural for it. 

[HWNut]

Well, all Dianas like the 54, 48, 34, 350 Magnum and so on shoot very smoothly with 6ft/lbs. Almost no recoil and very accurate.

The 350 Magnum has a different piston with 6ft/lbs though.

[Nathan]

Here's a suggestion. Contact J Maccari and ask him about a spring for detuning it. He lists on his site this one

http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/7512885.htm

but it's for the M34,36, 38 etc. But it's a 12 ft/lb spring. He maybe be able to wind you a spring for your sidelever along that power level or suggest one already on his site.

Another person you might ask is Hector Medina over on the Dianawerk Collective forum. He's real up to speed (so to speak) on the sidelevers and may have some ideas or input for you/ your tuner.

Nathan

[RedFeather]

John in PA will know what can be done, for sure.  He well knows his way around that platform.

[mze]

As my 48 22 t06 is being assessed by John in PA......we are reviewing whether to do something more radical, yet satisfying. We just finished detuning my 34 t05 177 from 920 to 840 with a PG2....the results are super smooth, highly enhanced accuracy silent machine....very short shot cycle secondary to many rings cut from spring.

Now...back to the 48......I already have the powerhouse 350 22 pg2 tuned machine.....why have 2 mothers when most of what I shoot is in less than 30 yds....with neighbors. We don't hear much about decreased power in magnums like the 48. Why not start to take a fixed barrel and imitate the successes like the 97 or the tx200? This may produce a highly accurate, quiet smooth 48 that you could spend your day enjoying with target or wabbit.

Thoughts?

You will never imitate the accuracy of the HW97K or TX200 MKIII or HC with any 48. T06 or otherwise.

[Escondido1]

Share with us some of the reasons why the terminal results cannot be matched or approached.....

[Mark 611]

I'll give you my opinion, your talk in about the size of the internal components, a 25 or 26mm tube is smaller than a 48 which is 28mm, so your going to have bigger and heavier internal parts, which create a harsher shot cycle compared to a smaller tubed gun, in most cases your also going to have a longer length of travel as well so the lock time is longer which gives the opportunity for more movement in the gun or shooter for mistakes before the pellet leaves the barrel just my thoughts on this!

[bart the fart]

>>>You will never imitate the accuracy of the HW97K or TX200 MKIII or HC with any 48. T06 or otherwise.>>>>

Not sure about that.
My thoughts on detuning a 48 in 22, I'd say leave it alone and enjoy it. Now a .177 would be a differnt story. JMO...for what its worth....

[Bullit]

Escondido1
There was a yellow post (de-tuning RWS), about this very model, Diana 48/52, being detuned with happy results!;)!  PG2 spring trimmed 2 coils, and new guides.  A call to Tom at Vortek should get you and John, on your way.  Keep us Posted.   Enjoy!

[RedFeather]

He never said he wanted to duplicate an HW97 or TX200.  Just tame the gun down a bit for short range work.  It will also make it a lot more pleasant to shoot informal target with, as it will become easier to cock.  There are trade offs when reducing power in these large springers, of course, but no one expects to make a 10M gun out of them, which the HW97 and TX200 are not, either.  I say have at it.  Most high powered springers are over-sprung, anyway.  They could all stand to be dialed down a bit.

But I'll let Mike Driskill say it best:

"The spring-piston "iron triangle"
   June 23 2011, 4:19 PM

WARNING: idle pseudo-philosophical musings by a guy on vacation to follow...

There are many good observations in this string, about not only the venerable 27 and 50, but mid-power springer rifles in general.

For what (very little) it's worth, my pal Lance and I "discovered" the virtues of the mid-size, mid-power springer rifle many moons ago...spurred on by Ladd Fanta's famous 1977 "Gun Digest" article on the Diana 27. While everybody else was braggin' about the power of their R1's and Diana 48's, we were putzing around not only with Diana 27's, but Anschutz 335's, BSA Meteors, Webley Trackers, and such...and feelin' like we'd made some great secret discovery!

Any mechanical device necessarily involves design compromises, and we coined the term "iron triangle" to describe those inherent to the spring-piston mechanism. The three sides of the triangle--i.e., the three things that must all be an at acceptable lever in any springer design--are: size/weight; firing behavior; and power.

Long story short, the 650 to 700 fps spring rifle seems, in general, to be the point where these three are in the greatest harmony. Just about any other class of springer optimizes one quality beyond what you see in these guns--but, always at the expense of at least one other. Think about it:

Pistols in general are even niftier in the size and weight department...but give up velocity, and can be famously hard to control. The few truly junior-sized springer rifles out there also suffer in the power department.

The great classic match gun designs of the recoilless springer era optimize firing behavior in service of hair-splitting accuracy, and are awesomely cool to shoot...but are not exactly over-powered, or easily tote-able.

"Magnum" springers go for the power of course...but are bigger, heavier, harder to cock, and harsher to shoot. Never had much use for these myself...I'm going for a pneumatic or a rimfire if I need much more oomph than my Diana 35 or HW 50 will deliver.

This is all just philosophic over-simplification of course. We can all think of favorite guns that hit a gray area between categories, or have other virtues. And the boundaries are not rigidly defined...is a Diana 25 too small and slow, or an HW 35 too big and powerful, to be "mid-sized?" I for one would certainly include most pre-recoilless target guns (Walther LG 53/55/LGV, HW 55, etc.) in the "magic mid-size" category, for example, but others might not.

Another advantage of mid-sized rifles is that they are eminently affordable on the used market...due to lack of demand from the current "power uber alles" crowd. But--that could change, if you guys don't quit woofin' about how great they are! "

[Escondido1]

All interesting thoughts from everyone......I know that John in PA and Tom Gore talk a lot when doing these 'unusual' variations....so let's see what magic they can produce!

By the way.....on a side note.....I heard from Mr. Manou last night and I was successful in getting the last Cometa Fenix 400 25 caliber walnut.........yea.....when it comes, I'll let you know how it tests.......

Den

[RedFeather]

That was a very generous deal they struck with everyone.  Approximately half price for some fine guns.  Do post in the Gamo/Spanish gate when you test it.