Walther LG55 spring and seal recommendations needed

[Kragman1]

Hi all,

Bought a really nice LG55 at the Carlisle show this past weekend, but I only got 8 or 10 shots through it last night before the seal fell apart. 

No, I did not keep trying to get it to shoot.... 😅

Now, I'm looking for a new original, or the closest things I can get for the rebuild.  Not looking to uptune or downtune, just to make it "right".

If you can point me.in the right direction, it would be appreciated!

[Yogi]

Hi all,

Bought a really nice LG55 at the Carlisle show this past weekend, but I only got 8 or 10 shots through it last night before the seal fell apart. 

No, I did not keep trying to get it to shoot.... 😅

Now, I'm looking for a new original, or the closest things I can get for the rebuild.  Not looking to uptune or downtune, just to make it "right".

If you can point me.in the right direction, it would be appreciated!

David Slade.

-Y

[Stinger177]

Hi all,

Bought a really nice LG55 at the Carlisle show this past weekend, but I only got 8 or 10 shots through it last night before the seal fell apart. 

No, I did not keep trying to get it to shoot.... 😅

Now, I'm looking for a new original, or the closest things I can get for the rebuild.  Not looking to uptune or downtune, just to make it "right".

If you can point me.in the right direction, it would be appreciated!

David Slade.

-Y

^^^^
Yup!!

I own an early '60's LG55, leather seal of course (in those days) and it's a very fine shooter.

 

[Kragman1]

My serial# suggests a 1962 production date.
I wonder what kind of seal I'll find in there...

[HectorMedina]

My serial# suggests a 1962 production date.
I wonder what kind of seal I'll find in there...

Congrats on the find!

If I may inquire what was the price?

For your case at hand:

Read This:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/eine-grossartige-dame

and some of the ideas here:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/noch-zwei-weitere-grossartige-damen

and here:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/noch-zwei-weitere-grossartige-damen-part-2-c

may also apply.

It IS possible to return the guns to the leather seal status, using the slotted nut and a special "filler" / support for the leather seal.

So, you COULD return the gun to OEM condition as of 1955, use the available OEM synthetic seal, OR you could setup the gun to work to its potential for the next 70 years using an ORing seal head. Your call.

Wonderful little guns, congrats again on the find!

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM

[Stinger177]

So Hector - Could I be wrong in that my LG55 does NOT have a leather seal? All of my Weihrauch from those years had leather.

It's been a while since I had mine apart, so my memory is not quite accurate. Did Walther use synth seals in '62-63?

 

[Motorhead]

No they did not ... it will be a Leather Cup type seal.

[Kragman1]

Thank you everyone.

I have a Diana 65 that needs to to Slade for revealing, so I'm really hoping to keep the LG55 to a basic parts swap.

From the looks of it, this seal could be intended to replace a leather cup.  Can anyone confirm?

Thanks!

[HectorMedina]

So Hector - Could I be wrong in that my LG55 does NOT have a leather seal? All of my Weihrauch from those years had leather.

It's been a while since I had mine apart, so my memory is not quite accurate. Did Walther use synth seals in '62-63?

 

I THINK the years that the industry adopted synthetic seals was 1964-1965, but it could be a matter of a year or two difference for each brand.
DIANA started testing some synthetic seals by 1962 and in 1963 they introduced the first "nylon" (it just wasn't called that) seals with the presentation of the DIANA 60, which was the first recoil-less model under the "Giss" design.

But the others did NOT use the same material, so it could be a matter of a year or two difference between the brands.

In any case, Dennis, the 55 still kept the oiling holes for a while, so a leather seal could be the perfect replacement if you ever need it.

HTH, keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[HectorMedina]

Thank you everyone.

I have a Diana 65 that needs to to Slade for revealing, so I'm really hoping to keep the LG55 to a basic parts swap.

From the looks of it, this seal could be intended to replace a leather cup.  Can anyone confirm?

Thanks!

Nope!

That seal is for the use of the conical washer depicted in my article.
Look at part in position #27   in this drawing:



That is the conical washer. Seal is #26 and the nut is #28

IF your gun has an intact slotted nut and an intact conical washer, then the reseal WILL be a straight swap of parts. MOST of these seals are severely oversized and need to be sized quite dramatically.



My objection to those seals that are available, is that they do NOT give you the performance the gun deserves.

The leather seal is a "cup" in the sense that it is hollow :



so, a "filler" is used; this is usually a cylindrical nut with either holes for a pin wrench or some other sort of very fine tightening device.
Leather in the leather seals is really thin, sometimes less than 1/8" for it to be really "moldable" under wet conditions, it needs to be thin.

It is important to understand how a leather seal works:

The leather itself does NOT seal the process of compression.
What seals the process of compression is the OIL in the leather seal.
Leather is porous by nature, without the oil it would be like a sieve.
But once impregnated in oil, it becomes a "solid" barrier.
It also allows for the "cushioning" and "absorption" of small variations in the ID of the compression chamber, acting like a ring in a car piston. And in that case, it is also the thin film of oil what actually seals the compression in the piston. When the difference in diameters between the rings and the cylinder become larger than the surface tension of the oil used, then you need to re-sleeve that cylinder.

1" leather seals are still available, so if you have one of the "small engined" air rifles that use 25mm/1" pistons, do not fret, leather seals are available.
They DO NEED a custom "filler" to support the walls of the leather seal. And that filler needs to be/be attached by a nut that creates as little "dead space/lost volume" as is possible.

HTH, keep well and shoot straight!




HM

[Stinger177]

Here are some pics of my (I think, it might be my HW35) my Diana 34. The holding nut was slotted, and I had to make a special (albeit crude) tool to remove the nut, but I think this is similar to what Hector has described.






I was actually able to revive that leather seal, and it's one of my best shooters. I am a true believer in leather seals.

I just can't remember what rifle those pics came from, but I'm pretty sure that it was my D34, as Hector was very helpful along the way of information to me in restoring it.

Hector - Does that look like a Diana retaining nut, or maybe it's my HW35?

Losing my memory here, yet again.

 

[spevie]

Here are parts left over from several LG55 I have done.
Shown is one of the JG/Knibbs reproduction seals: it needs to be fit to the receiver bore and is quite expensive?
If you are confident in sizing the seal, it works well.
If the piston stud is damaged it's an unusual thread pitch. If so, consider to machine the piston face to accept a Vortek seal (I think is same as HW30?).
If any of these parts (freebies) will be useful in your project send a pm.
The LG55 is a sweet little airgun, maybe not a Diana 65 but of course it's a very old design?

[Stinger177]

Spevie - that's a very generous offer.

Is that a Synth seal or leather, and is that a special tool that I see in your pic?

 

[Kragman1]

Very generous indeed! and I am in his debt.
I did promise to pay the extras forward after I get mine sorted out.
He's going to end up helping multiple people. 👍

[HectorMedina]

Here are some pics of my (I think, it might be my HW35) my Diana 34. The holding nut was slotted, and I had to make a special (albeit crude) tool to remove the nut, but I think this is similar to what Hector has described.






I was actually able to revive that leather seal, and it's one of my best shooters. I am a true believer in leather seals.

I just can't remember what rifle those pics came from, but I'm pretty sure that it was my D34, as Hector was very helpful along the way of information to me in restoring it.

Hector - Does that look like a Diana retaining nut, or maybe it's my HW35?

Losing my memory here, yet again.

 

Dennis;

To my knowledge, DIANA has never used cast iron piston bodies. They were the domain of Walther and, to some extent, HW.

Of course, the reality is buried in the fog of history (and war). So, unless I could compare the STEM to the known DIANA architectures, I cannot tell.

Very good, pictures! THANKS!




HM

[HectorMedina]

Here are parts left over from several LG55 I have done.
Shown is one of the JG/Knibbs reproduction seals: it needs to be fit to the receiver bore and is quite expensive?
If you are confident in sizing the seal, it works well.
If the piston stud is damaged it's an unusual thread pitch. If so, consider to machine the piston face to accept a Vortek seal (I think is same as HW30?).
If any of these parts (freebies) will be useful in your project send a pm.
The LG55 is a sweet little airgun, maybe not a Diana 65 but of course it's a very old design?

Thanks, Stephen! That is what I like about airgunners, LOL!

As mentioned in my article, the thread is M7X0.75, which is a "fine" Metric thread.
In those cases where the thread has been abused or compromised, I prefer to turn a head of Nylon 7 with a letter "G" drill in the center, affix this to the piston (it will self tap into the screw in the piston head), and then turn everything concentrically to fit in the bore, and hold an ORing.
In these low velocity airguns I have found Urethane ORing to perform best.

Hopefully, these notes will be useful.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

[Stinger177]

FWIW - here's a pic of my 62 - 63 LG55. Just for viewing to compare stock styles.



 

[Stinger177]

Hey Brian - Can you send us some pics of your LG55?

 

[Stinger177]

This is the referred to "crude" tool that I used to remove the seal nut.

.

I soaked the leather seal in an empty pellet tin for about two months (not intentional, that's just how long it took me to get back to the project). Soaking oil was 20w silicone R/C car shock oil as per Mike Driskill's advice (thanks Mike). Anyway, it worked out great. Somewhere I have a pic of the reassembled piston and seal inside a piece of tubing that allowed me to reface the seal.