Hatsan Flash-R QE VS Beeman Raider. Budget PCP comparison.

[Blowpipe Sam]

I’m relatively new to PCP air rifles.  I purchased a Crosman 3622 and a hand pump last year to get my feet wet.  This lead me to my first unexpected discovery about PCP’s.  I like them!  My second unexpected discovery was that possession of a PCP pump makes one susceptible to purchasing more PCP’s.
I purchased a .25 caliber Beeman Raider last fall and used it through the last hunting season.  I have just received a .25 caliber Hatsan Flash-R QE refurb that was priced too low to resist.  Being in possession of a couple of recent entry level PCP’s I thought it would be interesting to do a comparison and review of some their features.

[Blowpipe Sam]

These are entry level, budget, PCP air rifles.  They are built down to a price point not up to a standard.  The market for entry level PCP’s is expanding rapidly right now and a lot of manufacturers and retailers are testing the waters.  These two guns are examples of how competitive that market is becoming.  Significantly lighter (5.9lbs VS 7.5lbs) and shorter (39.8” VS 48”) than the Flash, the Raider was introduced a little over a year ago and now is no longer in the Beeman catalogue.  The Flash -R went through a couple of different iterations in foreign markets before arriving on the scene in the USA in the spring of this year.  The two guns were introduced roughly 16 months apart.  The Raider was a step up for entry level PCP’s with a 9 shot magazine and a conveniently positioned fill gauge.  By the time the Flash-R hit the market a magazine and a fill gauge were standard equipment for any competitive Budget PCP.

[Blowpipe Sam]

Here’s my first real comparison.  The Hatsan has a gauge on the end of the pressure reservoir and it is marked in Bar.  The Beeman has its gauge mounted under the forearm nicely recessed into the wood and it is marked in pounds per square inch.  The Beeman’s gauge might be a bit more vulnerable to getting broken in the field but it is far more convenient to use.  The Hatsan’s “Bar” markings threw me at first.  My old eyes couldn’t see the markings and I thought the gun was not getting up to pressure.  I don’t like the posture necessary to read the Hatsan gauge.  I have to take care to keep my face from in front of the muzzle and then I find it difficult to read.

[mikeyb]

Good info! Thank you :-)
Some info/data I found...

Flash-QE refurbished $129.99 "freeship"   https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/_refurbished-flashqe/
200 BAR fill
165 cc fill volume
Unregulated
6lbs
polymer stock
19.4" barrel

Beeman Raider NEW $159.99 (+S&H)   https://www.airgundepot.com/beeman-raider-pcp-air-rifle.html
+ 241 BAR fill (higher pressure)
cc fill volume (can't find spec but it should be similar to FlashQE volume per reviews on easy hand pumping)
Unregulated
6lbs
+ wood stock
" barrel
open sights included (IMO a MUST-HAVE on springers and something I do like to see on PCPs)



FlashR-QE refurbished $229.99 "freeship"   https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/refurbished-flash-r-qe/
250 BAR fill
215 cc fill volume
Regulated
7.5lbs
polymer stock
23" barrel


I don't own a Raider but I do have the Beeman bullpup underlevers (177 $180, 22 $220). Very happy with the performance of those Beeman PCPs. Both shooting HOT right out of the box, but easily dialed down to my preference by adjusting the hammer spring preload..

I know this is what you have on-hand but I think a better comparison here would be the Beeman Raider and the Flash-QE (no R). Both unregulated, gauges under the forearm, cocking bolt action, and prices comparable between Hatsan refurb and Beeman NEW.

I have the Flash-QE refurb and it needed some work before it would shoot well. Something I've learned to EXPECT from most of the refurbs I acquire. But it DOES shoot well NOW. I was initially disappointed in MY Flash-QE but after some repair/fine-tuning effort I think it may be the best(?) "bargain" PCP I own.


I do prefer the feel of a good wood stock but also appreciate the utility of a decent polymer stock.

Flash-QE and FlashR-QE are similar scale but Beeman image scale is APPROXIMATED due to oblique angle. Size and weight for Flash-QE and Beeman Raider are similar while the FlashR-QE is is obviously a larger rifle.

IMO the FlashR-QE is a step UP with the side-lever cocking, larger volume and pressure air tube, and built-in regulator. The longer barrel of the FlashR-QE could be better for slug throwing, assuming no choke.

I'm NOT putting down any of these rifles. Just listing the specs and prices (I found) so buyers can decide which beast fits their needs ;-)

edit: I'm also NOT a fan of tube-end gauges. All my other Hatsan PCPs have the tube-end gauge. Pointing the muzzle at my face to read a pressure gauge goes against all my instincts regarding range/firearm safety!

[splitbeing]

From an aesthetic point of view, the Beeman delivers above it's price point.  I suspect the same is true of it's ergonomics, but I have never shot one. 

The Beeman also matches your work station, Cap.  If there were a photograph of your workspace taken with an artist's eye, the Raider would be a better choice for being the rug that ties the room together.

Like the Beeman underlevers, which I also appreciate along with mikey and a lot of others, I do have concerns and have had to navigate the polymer optics rail, which is not secure enough to survive a torture test out of the box.

No one has demonstrated that more thoroughly than yourself, Cap.  So sorry if I'm jumping the gun here. [chuckling]

[Blowpipe Sam]

Thank you all for pitching in.  I sure appreciate you posting all the numbers for me Mike!

The unregulated Flash might be more appropriate to compare to the Raider but I will be highlighting the differences between the Flash-R and the Raider to illustrate how fast the market is changing.
On to the comparisons!  The Flash-R comes with Hatsan’s proprietary fill probe system.  The Hatsan fill probe requires two O-rings which are easily damaged when installing or removing the fill probe from the gun.  It is necessary to lubricate the O-rings before installing the probe.  Fortunately the gun comes with extra O-rings for the probe.  The probe works well and doesn’t leak but it’s kind of fussy and it’s one more little fiddly piece to keep track of.  The opening in the reservoir for the fill probe is covered by a rotating plastic collar that closes the opening when the gun is in use.  This collar is not very secure and could allow crud to get into the fill port.
The Beeman Raider has a hard plastic cap that snaps over the end of the reservoir.  Removing the cap reveals a regular foster fitting which attaches directly to my hand pump.  The Foster fitting works much better than the Hatsan fill probe with no damaged O-ring issues but the cap is not attached to the gun and could get lost.

[Blowpipe Sam]

There is a great deal of misinformation on the internet regarding the Flash-R’s receiver.  I’m holding one in my hand so this is the definitive truth.

The Hatsan Flash-R QE has a SYNTHETIC receiver.  That should clear things up.


Hatsan’s website and the PA and Airgun Depot websites and Fleabay all claim that the gun has a metal receiver.  I have watched two videos that say the gun has a metal receiver.  Hatsan is going to get sued for false advertising if they don’t watch out.  Perhaps the initial run of guns was built on an older Flash aluminum receiver but the current production are 100% synthetic.  The Raider also has a synthetic receiver.  Not unexpected at this price.

But that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  The Hatsan’s receiver looks monolithic.  It looks and feels very solid.  The plastic cocking lever is a bit disconcerting at first but it is very ergonomic, has excellent leverage, and is smooth as glass.  And it’s a side lever!  That’s a step up at this price point.  The Raider is a straight pull conventional bolt action and it is stiff!  The Raider’s bolt handle is a considerable chunk of alloy and you need it.  It requires a healthy heave on the handle to get the bolt all the way back so the hammer will cock.  Short stroking the bolt can be a problem for the Raider.

The Hatsan receiver is well sealed to keep crud out.  The right handed  safety slides in a slot just above the trigger.  It does not reset with cocking!  Hurrah!  The side lever fills its slot when closed and the magazine seals the breech. There are no other openings in the receiver.  And there are no external adjustment controls.  To adjust the hammer spring tension on the Flash-R I’ll have to take the action out of the stock.  The molded synthetic Picatinny rail is usable.  The (Picatinny?) 11mm rail is not usable.  It’s just a collection of small, weak, sharp, plastic protuberances on top of the gun.

The Raider’s receiver is not quite as impressive.  It only has a flimsy looking 11mm scope rail and a long open slot on the right side where’s the bolt rides.  The magazines seal the breech well enough though.  When I first purchased the Raider it was plagued by a wandering zero which I blamed on the thin plastic scope rail and the synthetic receiver.  In time I figured out that the issue was systemic.  The barrel is actually the problem but if careful attention is paid to the tension of EVERY SCREW on the gun then excellent accuracy is achievable.  I trust it enough now to mount a heavy 50mm scope and NVD on the gun.  The Raider’s safety is in front of the trigger so it’s ambidextrous and easy to find.  It does not reset when cocking.  The rear of the receiver has an easy to access hammer spring tension adjuster.  Just insert a 5mm Allen wrench.

[Blowpipe Sam]

As mikeyb observed the Raider comes with iron sights (well at least plastic).  They are conventional Plastic adjustable sights with fiber optic inserts entirely useable for most folks.  Unfortunately the back sight is positioned too close for me to focus on it.  So I had to scope it to achieve any real accuracy.  And here my troubles began. LOL!  If you don’t want to track down every last screw on the gun and then tune the chassis like a piano stick to the iron sights!

Honestly the Beeman will mount a scope reliably without too much maintenance.  The Hatsan comes without irons so for this comparison they will both wear scopes.  I’ve only had the Flash-R for about a week so it’s  a bit early to report on the stability of the receiver to scope interface but thus far it appears good.f

[Blowpipe Sam]

Moving on to the muzzle ornaments.  Beeman has chosen a stubby excrescence that fits the proportions of the Raider nicely.  Hatsan  apparently opted to increase the length of the Flash barrel for the Flash-R and retain the QE (Questionable Efficiency?) moderator.  It’s a long package.  Not  as long as a Mod 125 QE springer but long enough to effect the gun’s handling.  IMO most moderators found on budget priced air rifles are not effective.  With that said both of these do seem to reduce the muzzle report modestly.  Without the Beeman makes a loud Blaat!  With it is noticeably more civilized.  Without the Hatsan is obnoxious.  With it is slightly quieter, at least to the shooter.  I believe this is because both rifles are .25 caliber.  The big pellet moves slower and it is a closer fit to the bore of the one-size-fits-all baffles (?).  So the can actually provides some moderation in this larger caliber.  The Beeman moderator makes a nice thread protector for the muzzle which is fitted with a standard threaded moderator adaptor.  The shroud is fake and is not connected to the moderator.
The Hatsan moderator also appears to have some modest effect reducing the muzzle report. I didn’t remove the Hatsan’s shroud but it is secured with a nut around the muzzle and can be removed with a socket and a long extension.

[Blowpipe Sam]

Magazines.  They both come with two and a single shot tray.  The Beeman came with two single shot trays probably because they are a little flimsy though they work fine.  The magazines for both guns fit their respective guns snuggly, operate smoothly, are easy to change, and hold the pellets securely.  The Hatsan magazines hold ten pellets in .25 caliber.  The Beeman’s hold  nine.  The Beeman magazines are the easiest to load needing only thumb and forefinger to hold the magazine and advance the follower.  The pellets load nose first through the back of the magazine.

The Hatsan requires a more difficult grip on the magazine that challenges my arthritis.  The follower is advanced by rotating the back plate of the magazine and requires two hands.  The pellets drop in skirt first which can be balky sometimes.  Once the magazine is full the back plate is rotated back to the ready position.  All together more difficult and time consuming.

Both magazines accepted the largest pellets I have, 27gr H&N Baracuda Hunters, easily, and functioned without problems with H&N FTT, and JSP Kings.  I haven’t experienced any problems with the Hatsan Magazines.  They fit securely and operate quietly.  A flat follower tab obstructs the bolt path when the magazine is empty preventing you from closing the bolt with no pellet in the breech.  I’m very gentle with the cocking apparatus of these guns.  There’s no need to be forcing things with this much plastic in evidence.

The Beeman magazines are not without fault.  The bolt cocks at the very end of the opening stroke.  It sometimes requires considerable effort to get the bolt to cock.  If you don’t cock it on the first pull a second effort will often double feed the pellets.  If the bolt slips from your fingers while cocking it will fly forward under the impetus of the unlocked hammer spring, load a pellet, and slam fire.  Very dangerous and something to always be aware of with the stiff hammer spring and high cocking effort of this gun.

These are my first magazine fed repeating PCP’s and I really like this feature.  Follow up shots are anxiety free now.  I had a hectic quarter of an hour squirrel hunting with the Raider last season in which I bagged three squirrels in under fifteen minutes.  I assure you that I would not have got all three without a repeater.

Top photo is the Hatsan magazine.  Bottom photo is the Beeman.

[Blowpipe Sam]

They caught me and made me go back to work so I’ve been neglecting this thread for a couple of days.  I will continue my examination of the two gun’s features this weekend after I get a chance to do some performance comparisons.

Good stuff coming up so stay tuned!

[martrage]

 Cap'n, My first pcp was a Hatsan FlashPup. I never had a lick of trouble with it, never even had to change o-rings on the probe ( which were chewed up a bit) and
 it's still going strong with it's new owner. I used both scope rails at various times with different scopes and rings, no problem. The only thing that got me was the
 tiny bolt & cocking effort ( arthritic hand , I relate). The hammer spring adjustments was positive , but did require lifting the action, a process done to tune up for
 slugs on occasion. I wish the Factor RC would have been as reliable!! I think you will be happy with the FlashR-QE.

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Magazines.  They both come with two and a single shot tray.  The Beeman came with two single shot trays probably because they are a little flimsy though they work fine.  The magazines for both guns fit their respective guns snuggly, operate smoothly, are easy to change, and hold the pellets securely.  The Hatsan magazines hold ten pellets in .25 caliber.  The Beeman’s hold  nine.  The Beeman magazines are the easiest to load needing only thumb and forefinger to hold the magazine and advance the follower.  The pellets load nose first through the back of the magazine.

The Hatsan requires a more difficult grip on the magazine that challenges my arthritis.  The follower is advanced by rotating the back plate of the magazine and requires two hands.  The pellets drop in skirt first which can be balky sometimes.  Once the magazine is full the back plate is rotated back to the ready position.  All together more difficult and time consuming.

Both magazines accepted the largest pellets I have, 27gr H&N Baracuda Hunters, easily, and functioned without problems with H&N FTT, and JSP Kings.  I haven’t experienced any problems with the Hatsan Magazines.  They fit securely and operate quietly.  A flat follower tab obstructs the bolt path when the magazine is empty preventing you from closing the bolt with no pellet in the breech.  I’m very gentle with the cocking apparatus of these guns.  There’s no need to be forcing things with this much plastic in evidence.

The Beeman magazines are not without fault.  The bolt cocks at the very end of the opening stroke.  It sometimes requires considerable effort to get the bolt to cock.  If you don’t cock it on the first pull a second effort will often double feed the pellets.  If the bolt slips from your fingers while cocking it will fly forward under the impetus of the unlocked hammer spring, load a pellet, and slam fire.  Very dangerous and something to always be aware of with the stiff hammer spring and high cocking effort of this gun.

These are my first magazine fed repeating PCP’s and I really like this feature.  Follow up shots are anxiety free now.  I had a hectic quarter of an hour squirrel hunting with the Raider last season in which I bagged three squirrels in under fifteen minutes.  I assure you that I would not have got all three without a repeater.

Top photo is the Hatsan magazine.  Bottom photo is the Beeman.

If you rotate the cover all the way till it stops, then only the first pellet needs to be loaded skirt first.  It also holds the spring tensioned wheel in place while you load the remaining pellets head first from the other side.  It's much easier this way and the only real fiddlely part is getting that first pellet loaded.

[Blowpipe Sam]

Thanks Paul.  I eventually figured it out.  I still takes a rather uncomfortable grip but that is my arthritis.