Hatsan Flash-R QE question

[billygee]

Paul

Sent you a pm

Bill

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Paul

Sent you a pm

Bill

I just sent you my e-mail address.

Mine is still holding air this morning!  YAY!  I just finished up on today's project in the garden, so after grabbing a bite too eat, I'm going to test the new shroud less set-up and see how quiet it is and if hanging a Huma MOD30 off the end of the barrel has any affect on accuracy! 

[Deadrise Skiff]

I have the flash R qe in .22 as a refurbish, out the box it was shooting FX 18.1 grn at about 824 fps.
One thing I noticed was first shot or 2 the poi was off compared to the rest of the group.
I chrony tested and found the first shot to be close to 900 fps then fall off.
I took the air tank off and removed the valve end which has the regulator attached.
Part of the regulator stayed in the tank and part on the valve body.
The adjuster nut & screw were exposed in this position.
 I had to use needle nose vice grips around the adjuster nut to work & pull the rest of the regulator out of the air tube.
This led to moving the adjustment of the regulator setting. I had no idea how it worked or where the default setting was.
I reassembled to have it shooting at 400fps 
So I take it apart again and give it a maybe 1/8th turn, now I am shooting at 220 fps
So I reverse my adjusting and get to shooting at 900 fps...
During these tear downs the regulator would come apart when I removed the valve, so I had to really tighten components
for it to stay on the valve block. I went and removed the tapered cone valve of the regulator and refaced it on the lathe,
it had deep machining grooves and I believe it was energizing the first shot unregulated because it was leaking while setting.
I then reduced hammer tension a little and now shooting FX 18.1 IN THE  870'S Sometimes 880'S fps
The first shot now is not as far high as what I was seeing, so I believe I fixed regulator creep I had.I also now only fill to 200 bar instead of 250.

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

I have the flash R qe in .22 as a refurbish, out the box it was shooting FX 18.1 grn at about 824 fps.
One thing I noticed was first shot or 2 the poi was off compared to the rest of the group.
I chrony tested and found the first shot to be close to 900 fps then fall off.
I took the air tank off and removed the valve end which has the regulator attached.
Part of the regulator stayed in the tank and part on the valve body.
The adjuster nut & screw were exposed in this position.
 I had to use needle nose vice grips around the adjuster nut to work & pull the rest of the regulator out of the air tube.
This led to moving the adjustment of the regulator setting. I had no idea how it worked or where the default setting was.
I reassembled to have it shooting at 400fps 
So I take it apart again and give it a maybe 1/8th turn, now I am shooting at 220 fps
So I reverse my adjusting and get to shooting at 900 fps...
During these tear downs the regulator would come apart when I removed the valve, so I had to really tighten components
for it to stay on the valve block. I went and removed the tapered cone valve of the regulator and refaced it on the lathe,
it had deep machining grooves and I believe it was energizing the first shot unregulated because it was leaking while setting.
I then reduced hammer tension a little and now shooting FX 18.1 IN THE  870'S Sometimes 880'S fps
The first shot now is not as far high as what I was seeing, so I believe I fixed regulator creep I had.I also now only fill to 200 bar instead of 250.

Interestingly, the Flash 101, the Turkish Version of the Flash-R is rated to a 200 BAR fill, not 250 BAR like the U.S. Version.  Makes you wonder if we are overfilling the Flash-R's/

[Deadrise Skiff]

Another issue on my refurb was the first trigger screw was really short, and it had a really hard pull weight. I took a screw almost 4mm longer to get set-up like my non regulated flash.

[Blowpipe Sam]

That Quattro screw is deliberately short.  It is the first thing I would advise anyone to replace on this gun.  Mine is too short as well but I have a stock of replacements and at some point the trigger will annoy me enough that I replace it but I’m still sorting out other issues with the gun like adjusting the hammer spring tension.

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

I didn't have to swap the trigger grub screw and I got mine almost perfect!  It's not perfect, because it will never be an FX Match Grade Trigger like the trigger on my Impact, but it was also way cheaper! 

Today I polished the barrel and dressed the crown.  It's making nice clover leafs at 50 yards now shooting the 10.65 grain H&N Baracuda pellets.  That mouse better beware!   

[avator]

I just had my Flash QE .22 out to check zero. My BIL shot it exclusively last Friday and I told him to sight it to his liking. Plus it rode home in a soft case in the back of the rental car. I also feared he may have double loaded it and trashed the baffles.
The scope was only a couple clicks low and right and the baffles are fine.
This has been one of those guns that you can just be confident that it's good to go ever since I got it. It likes my cast NOE 217 24 RF Magnums as well as tinned CPUM 14.3.

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Here's a picture Bill (billygee) sent me of the air cylinder and regulator broken down.  This is a great illustration of how the regulator is assembled.  I just wish there was a way to tell what the regulator is set to so it could be tuned easier!

[Deadrise Skiff]

Thats what my regulator looks like, that nut that has the indexing dimples machined in is way loose on the threads.
It's so easy for it to move around (maybe mine was deeply overly threaded)  
I mark with a sharpie the index hole in which the adjuster screw lines up best with also measure how many threads are showing above the nut with calipers.
I was able to de-gas it the very first time with that slotted screw on the side, but now it barely lets any air out at all.
I have cleaned the area and passageways, but it takes almost 2 hours to get the air now. ( I shoot it down now, and then remove the tube
with about 100 bar then press the  valve tip ever so softly into a beach towel folded many times)

[billygee]

Thats what my regulator looks like, that nut that has the indexing dimples machined in is way loose on the threads.
It's so easy for it to move around (maybe mine was deeply overly threaded)  
I mark with a sharpie the index hole in which the adjuster screw lines up best with also measure how many threads are showing above the nut with calipers.
I was able to de-gas it the very first time with that slotted screw on the side, but now it barely lets any air out at all.
I have cleaned the area and passageways, but it takes almost 2 hours to get the air now. ( I shoot it down now, and then remove the tube
with about 100 bar then press the  valve tip ever so softly into a beach towel folded many times)

Danial

PCP regulators use Belleville washers to maintain consistent air pressure. These washers are cupped and produce force when compressed, providing a high spring rate with very little travel.

You most likely loosened the nut with your needle nose pliers when trying to remove this regulator,
making it loose, which now has No Regulated Air.

When adjusting the pressure of a PCP regulator, be cautious as a little change can go a long way. For example, a 0.010-inch shim can increase pressure from 1400 psi to 1600 psi in a JDS regulator.

Hopefully you didn't damage those washers

Since I'm having issues posting PIC's

my suggestion is try and match up your regulator spec to the pic posted

Bill

[Deadrise Skiff]

Oh yeah,, I moved the nut
Then I took the nut off and took the valve out and trued it up in the lathe and assembled & disassembled
probably 5 times fine tuning to get it to where I wanted it. Way too many strokes on a hand hump   
Even at the spot where is shoots at a desirable FPS, you can easily move the nut around it you touch it much before you get it back in.
Thats how I found out how loose the nut was to the valves shaft. (hopefully mines was just a defect as I hate to think
a item that needs great precision is that loosely made)

[avator]

Here's a picture Bill (billygee) sent me of the air cylinder and regulator broken down.  This is a great illustration of how the regulator is assembled.  I just wish there was a way to tell what the regulator is set to so it could be tuned easier!

You can't tell where it falls off the reg by shooting it over a chrono?

[billygee]

Here's a picture Bill (billygee) sent me of the air cylinder and regulator broken down.  This is a great illustration of how the regulator is assembled.  I just wish there was a way to tell what the regulator is set to so it could be tuned easier!

You can't tell where it falls off the reg by shooting it over a chrono?

True

It is a guessing game, but at best, have to start some where

Some come with two monometers, which one reads plenum
Hatsan usually factory set there's around 125Bar
but give or take when having a production Rifle
at least one can index a starting point   (assuming it's factory set at 125bar)   then crony it for fall off

Bill

[Deadrise Skiff]

Just got a flash R in .25 yesterday (I did this one new, my .22R was a refurbish)
Vortex Strike 24.7 grn. 824 fps
jsb 33.95 grn. 730 fps
Put longer screw in trigger,
 3D print baffle in the QE but had to remove over a 1/8th inch of plastic off the length of 3d print
The flash r .22 I have It fit fine, so the shroud is shorter or the threading on the barrel is not the same placement.
Hatsan put a crazy steep angle crown on the barrel,,, most I have ever seen.
I have not pulled it out the stock yet for any adjustments.

[mikeyb]

Some of my acquired air rifles have had bad crowns. A couple Crosman break-barrels, a Beeman CO2, and revently several Hatsans (break-barrels and PCPs) Some "bad crown" Hatsans were older refurbs, some new/old (>5years), and some new/recent (<3 years).

I would not call them crowns. Half-fast attempts at deburring maybe?

Muzzles were factory prepped(?) at different angles, different depths, had large chatter marks, and moderate to LARGE burrs shaving passing pellets. Accuracy and consistency were really poor.

In my exprerience with airguns shooting under 50yards the crown angle and depth are not critical. A UNIFORM crown with NO BURR shaving/deflecting pellets IS critical.

When I rework the muzzles to get a uniform chamfer with no detectable burr the pellets push easily, have crisp rifling marks with no "smearing", and accuracy/consistency returns to normal.

[avator]

Maybe I need to play the lottery...
The only barrels I have had to crown are barrels I chopped.