Plain lead, copper clad (FMJ) or zinc alloy pellets?

[Mk2]

I'm just about to run a sample of 35 different brand/type/weights pure lead pellets (packs of 20) through my recently purchased used, Stoeger X20 suppressor mk1; To see which pellet (brand/shape/weight) gives me the tightest groups at 25yrds.

I was wondering if anyone has done any experiments with different material pellets, and what results they had.

What I mean is, imagine you buy 15grain pellets- all the same basic shape. Only thing different is the material they're made of. So a hollowed out lead pellet, almost solid zinc (or other less dense metal pellet), and copper clad lead pellets.

Lead deforms slightly when travelling down the barrel (not talking about the rifling, but the skirt flares out slightly). Copper may have less friction? Zinc is harder, so won't deform much.

And then there would be discussions on barrel fouling, but I'll leave that to another thread!

Any links to some science on this subject? Just curious...

TIA 👍🏻🇬🇧

[Nvreloader]

Some info here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=149581.0

IMHO, soft lead is the best, seals the bore and provides the best accuracy,
also depends on what it's being shot out of.  ymmv

[HunterWhite]

I only tried copper clad once. I had the same pellets in lead and copper clad lead.

The copper clad was noticeably worse than the lead pellets.

Had hoped that the copper would reduce fouling but they just didn’t shoot straight.
I not really surprised now that I think about it. There are very few copper clad offerings available. My guess would be that if they were accurate then more of us would buy them.

I look forward to reading your results.


Hunter

p.s. 
is Reading in England pronounced REDing like here in Pennsylvania, or like REEDing?

[Blowpipe Sam]

The copper pellets sure are pretty!

Pretty sure that’s why I bought them.  I’ve had no luck with the Crosman or Gamo copper plated pellets in any of my .177 caliber air guns.  Not sure why. I weighed some on a Lyman reloading scale and the variation between pellets was slight.  Didn’t seem like enough to cause problems.  I suspect hardness is the culprit.  Pure lead pellets have always worked best for me.

Plastic composite pellets like the Crosman’s are also NOT WORTHY!  Plastic fouling of the bore is a real thing!

The various super lite  alloy pellets I’ve tried have all been wildly inaccurate.  Maybe I just don’t have a gun that prefers that sort of pellet but I’ve never heard from anyone who does.

[Mk2]

Hunter

p.s.
is Reading in England pronounced REDing like here in Pennsylvania, or like REEDing?

Yep, "REDding", like the colour red. Another classic English name pronounced in the wrong way... In Berkshire. Pronounced Bark-sha. 👍🏻

[Mk2]

The copper pellets sure are pretty!

Pretty sure that’s why I bought them.  I’ve had no luck with the Crosman or Gamo copper plated pellets in any of my .177 caliber air guns.  Not sure why. I weighed some on a Lyman reloading scale and the variation between pellets was slight.  Didn’t seem like enough to cause problems.  I suspect hardness is the culprit.  Pure lead pellets have always worked best for me.

Plastic composite pellets like the Crosman’s are also NOT WORTHY!  Plastic fouling of the bore is a real thing!

The various super lite  alloy pellets I’ve tried have all been wildly inaccurate.  Maybe I just don’t have a gun that prefers that sort of pellet but I’ve never heard from anyone who does.

I was going to ask about composite pellets as I've never even seen them for sale- only read about them in discussions. Thanks for the heads up.

So it seems that good ol' lead is still the best. Makes me wonder if pellets made out of depleted uranium would work. Same softness, nice dense metal... Not that they exist, but it'd be interesting.

A big general "no" to copper clad pellets then. I agree, they do look good.

[HunterWhite]

Yes, or Norich ( Norwich )
I really enjoyed my trips to England. I saw the club where the Beatles played, (but sadly it was closed down),the statue of Elenor Rigby ( actually that was her pen name) I stayed at the Albert dock, and the road to Strawberry Fields but no time to visit there. I went to speakers corner on a Sunday there in Hyde Park for n the Thames ( Tim’s) river.
Fun times.

Hunter 

[Nee Zee]

I've used H&N Field Target Trophy Power Copper .22 out of my Bandit and they shoot as well as the lead, but have better penetration. Only glitch is I've found a handfull of mangled skirts in the can. Have also used a variety of the budget H&N Excite series (lead) and rarely find a defective one. Go figure. 

[Berserkeley Mike]

I too look forward to the results of your testing!
I keep track of such things in a lab-type notebook, but I guess a spreadsheet would also be handy.
From back in 2010, when I first got into airguns:

Daisy 856, open sights, 7 pumps, 40 feet, rested "artillery" hold:
Crosman wadcutter 1/2"
Crosman hunter 1 5/8"
RWS wadcutter 1 1/8"
Gamo wadcutter 1 1/4"
Gamo masterpoint 3/4"
Gamo magnum 2 1/2"
Gamo hunter 3/4"
Crosman hunter again 1/2"

The groups sizes don't really matter as that last entry, repeating the Crosman hunter pellet, suggested that my aim was more varied than any pellet performance.  Since then I found that gun did well with Beeman "coated" hollow points out to 40 meters, and the Gamo gold-colored alloy pellets (the kind that come in the bullet-shaped plastic container) to 25 meters, and later found that different guns prefer different pellets, and some even like a pellet that no other gun shoots well.  Case in point, I have a HW that will lob these tin Sig Sauer 6.8 grain "hollow point" pellets into the same hole at 25 meters, but all my other guns just scatter them.  I guess it may be something about how the spring piston can blast the skirts into an optimal shape like no CO2 or PCP can, but who knows?  At any rate, the best pellet may not be what it is made of but what your particular gun can make it do. 

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

I too look forward to the results of your testing!

Ditto!
 It has been my experience strait lead shoots the best.
JSB / RWS / H&N
I cast 99.9% pure lead from Roto-metals.

Whatever alloy Crosman used was harder by the "Bite Test" and never shot great for me.

I always avoided copper jackets because air gun barrels aren't hardened like a P.B.

But what do I know.

[Back_Roads]

I have cast and shot pellets and slugs from tin and bismuth alloy from roto metal. I will spare the details to keep life simple.  Many variables but it can work.

[TorqueMaster]

"What I mean is, imagine you buy 15grain pellets- all the same basic shape. Only thing different is the material they're made of. So a hollowed out lead pellet, almost solid zinc (or other less dense metal pellet), and copper clad lead pellets."

My first thought is that each of these "basically the same" pellets will have different centers of gravity, which will affect stability, for better or worse, in different ways.  By all means, test as many types as you can at the range you intend to shoot.

I've not tried hybrids or copper clads.  Generally I've found the softer less shiny "pure" lead pellets do a bit better than the shinier alloys, and once the best shooters are determined, often it's the consistency of manufacturing that tips one pellet to be the better choice over the others.  My best shooters are usually JSB or H&N. Or RWS (wadcutters.)

[subscriber]

Copper and zinc being harder than lead would shoot pellets that are slightly tight or slightly loose rather poorly.  Specifically because of the difference in friction between materials; and the percentage of available power used to overcome friction.  Also, the ability to blow out the skirt and seal the bore, and reduce total rattle before running into the choke at the muzzle.

The energy used by the choke would also be much higher for copper and zinc pellets that lead.  In lower power airguns some pellets may "stack".  Not on target, but in the barrel....

[Hoosier Daddy]

I assumed that is why Crosman pellets aren't as accurate as higher quality pellets in the majority of guns I own.
 They are a harder alloy... not pure lead.

[subscriber]

I think Crosman use a high antimony lead alloy because fewer pellet  skirts are damaged in shipping.  Some airgun have been very accurate with some single die Crosman pellets.  Some of those airguns have gotten their barrels badly fouled at the choke, probably due to the antimony.  See: 

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=208797.msg156458819#msg156458819

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=205577.msg156409977#msg156409977

[sonnysan]

What about powder coat?  I'm in the testing phase.

[subscriber]

Sonny, there is quite a lot of powder coating experience and discussion to tap into on GTA.  The google search below shows lots of threads and posts on the topic:

Just scroll past the AI generated text.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.gatewaytoairguns.org+powder+coating

[sonnysan]

Thank you.  I got into powder coating since two customers needed .001 -.002 build-up for slugs to fit in their magazines.  What I'm really looking for is an accuracy test bare lead vs. PC.  I'm still waiting for customers feedback, as they just received the shipments.  What I'll probably do is post this product line on ebay so people can pay and judge for themselves if the process is worth it.  The cost will probably be 30% over bare lead pricing.  I think it's a worthwhile exercise.   

[subscriber]

This search string looks for posts that include accuracy:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.gatewaytoairguns.org+powder+coating+%22accuracy%22

I would assume that consistent lead slugs that are consistently coated would shoot better than slugs that are incositently made, or inconsistently powder coated.

I happen to have seen a youtube video of guy shooting power coated bullet using black powder as propellent out of a revolver.  Accuracy was good until he pushed too hard:  At higher velocity the powder coating tended to strip off the bullets and leave flakes and ribbons of plastic in the barrel.  I don't know if the same affect might occur with airguns, but you might want to test for that, in case some shooters complain about poor accuracy at max power and blame your products.  Now, if they are shooting only to 1000 FPS, using sufficiently long barrels, chances are no such stripping of the PC would occur.

I am not sure what type of PC the guy was using, but will PM you the video, if I can find it.

Good luck with your endeavor.