Artemis PP-800 /Diana Bandit

[Racing]

That IS neat.
Sounds kinda violent, what power level is that?

On the PP-800.





I´ll tell you what this is.
It´s different, that´s what it is. Doesn´t it weigh a ton? No, not really. Plan to put it on the scales come tomorrow.
But isn´t it really nose heavy? No, not really and by any margin MUCH less so than you´d think.
Shotcount must be insane then?
Per usual that of course depends.
What i can tell you though is that this is just a first cast. I will be making that much more slim steel version ready to go as well.
I appreciate it looks kind of over the top and rather weird in itself, i really do, but plz keep in mind that this buddy bottle is REAL small to begin with.
In short it doesn´t strike you in person as it does in a picture.

What it DOES do though is work. There´s no arguing that and what´s more it sure does away with the issue of "not enough air to support anything appreciable".
Also keep in mind that it´s all reversible. Ie; unbolt that thing there and you´re back to stock.

It´s been, and really is, a rather cool tech exercise. Let´s for now sum it up as that.

[louigi600]

I like that ... not sure what the threads are in your bottle ... but would you make it for other people with standard M18x1.5 bottle thread ?
Is the external diameter of the bottle 60mm ?

[Racing]

Making a drop block isn´t an issue.

No. The stock BSA bottle is on M14*1.5, but a regular M18*1.5 could be made just as well really. Just takes the drop block being a bit wider.

The stock BSA R-10 bottle in turn is on a 50mm diameter and a volume of 200cc´s total.
In short it´s a "small" buddy bottle, hence why i opted for it.

None the less i´ll as stated above go ahead and make that on 30mm dia steel cylinder for it too. Basically just to have an option. That cylinder is on 120cc´s total.

In other words using the BSA bottle now hands 240cc´s total and the to be steel version will hand 160cc´s.

The point to that is that in full power mode (approx 40J/30fpe) this way you still have a shot count and the thing sure takes to the power.
In low power setting, and this is where the steel cylinder really comes into play, at say 10-15J you can basically "shoot forever".

[Back_Roads]

 Jesper, to answer your question, it is shooting at 20 fpe with most ammo I have feed it.

[Racing]

@ Backroads.
Hm.

"Conducted" a trial of sorts today.
We´re all aware that barrel length is imperative to pcp performance. On the flipside of that coin, so is pill weight.
Of notice here is that the stock PP-800 barrel is on a mere 250mm (10") i believe. Shooting 16´s.. sure.
Replacing that with 25,4´s came to render approx short 37J. Loading 34´s in turn, a full 42J. Tried 40´s, power went down to approx 40 flat.
42J is approx 31fpe.

To be kept in mind is that we´re talking vast amounts of hammer bounce too but none the less, seems the performance level is there alright. Also take into account what the new poppet setup brought to the table.
None the less, for those so inclined i´m absolutely positive that the level of power could be increased wish be.

That being said 42J out of that very compact little package is certainly pest territory for real.

[louigi600]

Jesper, to answer your question, it is shooting at 20 fpe with most ammo I have feed it.

My PP800 is shooting 12fpe and the only mod I did to is was replace the original .177 cal barrel with a slightly shorted .22 barrel from an old Muzzler  CP1M.
Maybe the 4.5mm valve has smaller transfer port or something ... but until I get more air in it 16J is fine: at that barrel length it's a considerable improvement over the CO2 driven CP2.

[Racing]

Transfer ports, all of them, on the 22 is pn 3.5mm

[louigi600]

Well my one was .177 origilanny ... did not measure the TP ... maybe it's also 3.5mm in any case on all the guns on which I have dual barrels (without any other adjustments) when I switch from .177 to .22 I generally get 50% more power. I expect the .177 was making about 8 fpe out of the box. I've done nothing to is as 8 to 10 shots it already uncomfortably low and any less power I might as well be using the CP2 on CO2.
I need to see what kind of small bottle I can find before concidering to attempt make something similar to what you did (but without lathe) or ask if you would make me one too.
What did you do to yours to get the 40+ J. You mentioned you left the air passages the same so did you use a stronger hammer spring ?
I might want to do the same if I'll get a bottle for mine too.

While we are at it: how many of you guys can open the silencer on these guns ?
I have 3 such silencers but only one opens ... the other to won't open without brute force to the extent of causing aesthetic or physical damage.
I have tried soaking them in wd40 or other penetrating oils, heating them to 250 C in the oven, wrapping them in rubber to get a better grip: nothing worked so far on the 2 that don't want to open.
I suspect the have 2 types:

• the ones that open and have nice turned baffles
• the ones that don't open, that have crappy pressed baffles and are machine tightened to the point fo partially stripping the threads to make them stick

I hope to move soon to some place where I can have a lathe!!!

[Racing]

On a general whole many pcp´s are made up the same way.

Ie; a hammer that knocks a poppet off its seat, to let air through the valve.

One manner in which the PP-800 is restricted is that the actual stroke the poppet can reach within the valve is severely restricted. Where we usually want to see the poppet shank protrude out the valve body with 4mm +/- like 1.5mm (especially plus) the stock setup hands a lift from flush of approx 0,8mm.
This of course limits not only poppet lift but dwell as well.

For the most part it seems hammer weight comes in between 30 and 55 grams, all depending. Indeed the hammer on the PP-800 carries great resemblance to what we find on the Stormrider and what have you not too. I´d even wager they´re REALLY alike all said.
In the case of the PR/CP/PP and so on guns it seems Artemis/Snowpeak comes to a rest at making hammer springs on 1.00mm wire.
The stock hammer spring is still in my gun, just handed a shim for more preload.

An issue is that this 1.00 spring deal is rather soft by pcp standards which hands that as the poppet is moved shut vs its seat the shank will send the hammer backwards, into the already preloaded hammer spring... return to lift the poppet, just less.. back to the hammer moving.. and so on and so on.
Hammer bounce in short.
A SSG setup is in my world rather thought through, while many just settle for a SSS. Short Stiff Spring. Often times installed such that the hammer gets an ever so slight amount of free flight before striking the poppet shank to get the poppet off the seat.
Spring ratio is now such that it´s WAY harder for the poppet on its return to send the hammer on the rebound by any appreciable amount... and so the story goes.

All pcp´s get hammer bounce. Some designs are better than others, but these days we get to see rather nifty solutions to the problem.
Take for instance the setup on the Reximex Meta. Rather thought through IMO, where it by in essence mechanical means bring bounce down severly by simple locking the hammer up.

Long story short the main reason for the "power up" on this 800 is no doubt massive increased poppet stroke.
That.. and a slightly increased hammer spring K value.
Yeah.. that and assuring the thing hands it all behind the bullet. No leaks in other words.