Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10

[coax]

I think you may be having issues with the pellets.  The FTS pellets look great, but as an example I sorted 6 200 count tins of JSB Monsters and had pellets from 23.9 to 24.9 grains.  That can throw a monkey wrench into long distance accuracy and could contribute to funky chrono readings also.  You don't want to hear this, but you may need to SORT SOME PELLETS.  Also, if they are bigger than 5.52mm, the rifle may not like them.  When I put 5.53mm thru my Pnuema at 45-50yds I'd get 3 in one hole, and two that formed their own group off to the side.  Occasionally, I even got a hey! flyer that was unexplainable.

[darryl]

I'm always open to listening. I'd have to buy a scale to sort them. I do think you may have a point about the pellet head size, though. The FTTs I'm using are 5.53mm, and the are one-holer-ers in the Prod, but it's known for having a loose choke (Mrod barrels too) so that pellet is a perfect fit. But maybe  not so in the Pneuma. I still want to pursue the trigger, nad try to see what else I can do. I really suspect there may be some drag on the sear, and that might be the cause of the FPS variance I see. In past strings  the bow or curve was more consistent, even with the FTTs (and the 5.52mm Jumbo Heavies). Im basically trying to get back to that point, but the trigger adjustments really tax me. I did manage to reduce the variance as seen in the spreadsheet I posted. There is one other that looks even "spikier" before I did some adjusting to the trigger and got where I am now. Thegroups even closed up a bit as a consequence. I'll run out and get some CPHPs. Ive read that they are 5.52mm head diameter.

[aack73]

interesting info on how the trigger affecting your groups and shot strings. besides the obvious trigger pull weight.

[darryl]

aack, I've seen and documented the change in how the spikes change with my trigger adjustments. That's why I'm thinking there may be mechanical drag in there. somewhere. I'll try to post three sheets for review. They are each set the same, except for trigger adjustment. Each using pellets from the same tin. Maybe H&Ns pellets are inconsistent enough to make this sort of difference. I can't say I know what the reason is for sure, but I think, therefore I shoot.

[aack73]

i didn't mean to sound as though i was doubting you. just thought that to be interesting. not something i would have thought to check or even consider that it would affect the shot consistency like that. i'm sure you'll keep with it til you get it to where it likes the trigger and you too.   good info. definitely a problem out of the box, to me anyway.

[darryl]

Well guys the final thing I want to do is buy a new barrel. Then I'm done (if it's a decent barrel). I have the rifle shooting the way I want it now; the curve looks very good over 30 shots compared to the last few days. I did finally manage to get the rifle to cock with the new hammer. Of course a lot of trigger adjustment with that. If I can post this last sheet, there's a surprise conclusion it it. Oh, I tried some of Wally's CPHPs in the Pneuma today (with the new hammer) and it sprayed them like buckshot. I went back to the H&N FTTs and got much better grouping. Not brag-worthy, but at least one hole, if a little bigger than I"d like. That's why I'm considering a new barrel.

[darryl]

please check out this link. I posted two spreadsheets in this post I made. It's a before and after look at where the rifle is right now. The sheet at the top is a bit fuzzy, but if you look at the curve you can see the little spikes in it. Then page down and look at the other sheet I posted, with the new hammer. I'll say it now. It wasn't the pellets, and it was not all in the trigger adjustment. Some of it surely was, though. But it wan't the whole picture. I did not see until I installed that new hammer. Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. I still think I'll try a new barrel.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1324262828/need+a+PCP+tuner%27s+opinion

btw, aack, no offense taken on this end.

[coax]

Huge difference now Darryl.  I still think you need to use other heavier pellets.  Check with the 18.1s, but I bet it'll do good with some Barracuda 5.52mm.  I think you'll find with distance you get some wow and then some hey! with the 5.53mm FTTs, but maybe no.

[darryl]

yes coax, a big difference. I had already shot several tins of the 18.1 grain Jumbo Heavies, and the rifle likes this pellet more so than the 15.9 grain Jumbos; so far as groups go. The lighter 5.53mm H&N FTTs are more accurate but that could be due to my lapping the barrel, and inadvertently opening up the choke a bit. I wanted this rifle to toss some decent weight anyway. I mainly use the H&Ns in my P-rod where I get 17FPE with them. I want it to do so with accuracy like what you're getting. I'll decide on the new barrel after I get my order of 18.1 Jumbo Heavies from PA. They're on the way right now.

I really had a time with that new hammer; trying to get the rifle to cock. I was beginning to think again that I could not make it work. But after a while I started getting some encouraging results. A random cocking failure (leading to a double-loading of pellets), but still encouraging. I kept at it until I was rewarded with the 30 shot string in the link. One thing i did find out about the new hammer is that 3 turns out on this one did not yield anywhere close to the same FPS results of the old one. The threaded area inside must be just a bit deeper. It took 6.5 turns to get similar results. Fun stuff, but I'm close to completing this journey. I hope a new barrel will seal the deal.

[coax]

Keep it up Darryl.  You will get there.  As I stated, the string is looking good now.  My rifle shoots the Barracudas and Monsters better than the JSB 18.1s though.  They have a better ES and SD with the Monsters having the best. Perservere and it will come!

[darryl]

coax, my pellet order came today. I should be able to do a small test today. I'm sending you a PM about another matter.

[darryl]

just a heads up on ordering Pneuma barrel from UMAREX. I'm working with it now because the one it sent is apparently not for a repeater, but (and I'm guessing) is for a single-shot rifle. It has no inner-barrel o-ring as the one on my repeater does. Plus it comes up short by about .250" when inserted into the "mechanism". That barrel is part#85 on the drawing UMAREX sent me. I'd have thought it would be the same barrel for both versions. but I'd have been wrong to think that. So be forewarned to be specific when you order the barrel. Meanwhile UMAREX is trying to find the right part number (part #85 is all that shows on it's system for now), and will get back to me.
darryl

[darryl]

For the new  year, I wanted to get a new perspective on the Pneuma. I filled it to 2750 PSI/190 bar, and shot it down to 1300 PSI/90 bar. I recorded 40 shots (not counting the three wasted shot results due to chronograph  errors). Used the H&N FTT 14.66 grain pellets, and 6.5 turns on the hammer spring (new hammer seems to have a deeper threaded cavity than the original.  Results not too bad. I'll be glad when UMAREX gets the correct new barrel to me. I'm hopeful to improve the accuracy beyond where it is now; suitable for hunting.

[coax]

26 shots within 96% of peak velocity and all 40 within 90%.  That's looking pretty good.  I think you can take some game with that when a new good barrel gets in.  What happens to the shot count if you turn the hammer spring back down some more?

[darryl]

I'm out of air!! both tanks down and my fill source is on vacation. The new hammer is turned out farther (iirc) because it seems to have a deeper interior threaded area than the original. I figure it's the equivalent of 4 turns on the stock unit (6.5 o the new one). But I think the shot count should go up if I back the power down. There is a lot of adjustment left to lower the power settings. I filled to 190 bar and shot down to 90 bar. I need to move the highest FPS to the right in the curve, and flatten it out a little. But I've posted this spreadsheet on the classifieds here (and elsewhere) as data for selling the rifle. Now that I've got it to this point I'm almost loathe to sell it. But I've found an FX Timberwolf and I'm trying to raise a few funds (unless something comes up). i sold the Scout to a good friend. He says I can come drool on it any time. It won't hurt my feelings if no one buys it. We've both invested a lot of effort in our Pneumas. I'm hoping the new barrel will get mine to shooting like yours for Who ever buys it (or if I keep it). It's a quiet summabidge with that LDC on it.

[melvin]

How many here has one,and are they Accurate right out of the Box.Please and Thanks?  My wife wants to buy me one for Christmas and I can get the .22 cal,,(which I prefer) so as long as it's a Good rifle,I'm gonna let Mrs.Claus do her thing he he.

Bandit... Did you get the Pnuema?  I want to know how it turned out for you if you did.

Melvin


Thanks in Advance.

[darryl]

Not to rain on the Pneuma Parade, but the word from Airguns of Arizona (told to me by it) is they've been getting reports from the field about the Elite 10 having accuracy issues. Yet they still sell them. I sold mine. I should have bought the single-shot version. The person I sold mine to says he will re-crown the barrel right off. One can always buy a LW barrel for it but that adds quite a bit to the cost, and the money would be best spent on a PCP more known for it's accuracy (like the single-shot version of the Pneuma!). Who know? I may one day buy the single-shot version.
darryl   

[Pipewelder]

I bought a second one myself just to see if my 1st one was a fluke. Plus to have a spare tank. Doubles my shooting time and trips back to the nitrogen bottle.

[melvin]

Not to rain on the Pneuma Parade, but the word from Airguns of Arizona (told to me by it) is they've been getting reports from the field about the Elite 10 having accuracy issues. Yet they still sell them. I sold mine. I should have bought the single-shot version. The person I sold mine to says he will re-crown the barrel right off. One can always buy a LW barrel for it but that adds quite a bit to the cost, and the money would be best spent on a PCP more known for it's accuracy (like the single-shot version of the Pneuma!). Who know? I may one day buy the single-shot version.
darryl

So why would the single shot be a better shooter?  Why not make Umerax send you a different barrel if it shoots like poops? 

[darryl]

I don't know why the single-shot would be a better shooter. I don't know why I got a repeater with accuracy issues. UMAREX declared it OK. AOA said it got bad reports. I ordered a new barrel, and was sent the wrong one. I sold the rifle, so I have moved on. I've always found the famous AT44 appealing. So maybe one day I'll take another look; but only at the single-shot.