Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10

[coax]

I know it feels good to make some progress Darryl.  Well done and hang in there.

[darryl]

thanks coax. It's quite the journey. Gary and gophersniper got me to thinking about the trigger from their experiences, and that 3rd screw had baffled me for some time. Now the shot string looks manageable. My next move can't be made until my parts come in. There is a new TP o-ring in there. I think when I replace the thicker-fatter substitute o-ring I have in there now, the FPS will return to pre-substitution levels. I'm hoping so. I feel as if I've been chasing my tail for quite a while with this rifle. No doubt a series of blunders by me has had a hand in my troubles. Fingers still crossed.
darryl

[Allard]

Have you seen this thread?
This really helped me to understand the trigger mechanism.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1301669829/Hatsan+Quattro+trigger+%28lots+of+pics-%29

Also helpful:
http://www.arld1.com/tx200trigger.html

[darryl]

thank you Allard. the animated demo of the TX200 trigger helped me visualize what I needed to understand about the Pneuma's trigger. The trigger-adjustment instructions that came with the rifle do not mention that front screw at all. It's easy for a novice like me to arrive at an erroneous conclusion about it's purpose, and start fiddling with it in total ignorance. Now I'm edjumacated!   I have a different version of the Quattro trigger, but the function of the adjustments is the same. I thank you for both links. Of course I've book-marked them. I really like the explanation that rod2311 gives for the separate screw adjustments. these links a re a great help.
much obliged,
Darryl

[darryl]

the USPS tells me my parts will be delivered tomorrow. Then I'll see where I am with this gift from the gods.

[coax]

Darryl, get those parts in?  Keep working partner.

I got some Barracuda 5.52mm and tried them today.  It was windier than normal today.  My groups were nice and circular at a 0.84" inch average.  I included the 2 five shot groups that I normally use for foulers when switching pellets, before firing for record.  Now I have to see If I can consistently get the groups the way I want.  I have never been able to repeat the average I got that day with the JSB Monsters and they are averaging 0.90" to 1.12" when shot on multiple days.  I think of pulling the trigger on something else, if this thing won't do what I can already accomplish with my Benjamin Trail NP in .22 cal.

[darryl]

life ain't fair. The new parts came in. I installed the new TP o-ring, the new barrel band  (after swapping o-rings from the modified one), and the new hammer and adjustment screw. UMAREX sent them non-gratis. Surprised me, and I'm thankful it did. After installing the new hammer, and putting everything back together, I spent the next three hours trying to get the rifle to cock and fire. I swapped out the new hammer for the old one. The sears on the two hammers are shaped different. NExt time I tear it down I'll take a picture of the two. I don't think that should keep the rifle from cocking and shooting. So with the old hammer back in, I've been trying to adjust the trigger, and it's a fine adjustment point required so far, and I haven't found it. If I get it to where it successfully cocks, I can't pull the trigger. I have to decrease the sear-catch until the rifle fires.  I've tried to adjust the 1st stage travel too. Turning that screw in too far and the rifle cocks but I can't pull the trigger to get the shot off. I've worn myself out tonight. Full day tomorrow, so I don't know that I'll get at it again soon. Besides, I have a new BAM down there too and it needs a bit of familiarity testing. I'll review the trigger protocols on the Pneuma to see if I've missed something. Ood dhow just changing a few parts can throw chaos into the mix.  Exhausting.

coax, at what distance did you shoot that group? Don't tell me it was 30 yards. I'll slit my throat!

[coax]

Darryl, today I was shooting at 50yds, if you're talking about the above averages.  The day I shot the 0.56" inch average for 4 five shot groups with the JSB Monsters was also at 50yds.  Problem is I haven't been able to duplicate it again (not even get close for 4 groups of five shots).  It could be due to a small turn of the barrel when I installed it that time.  I'm chalking that day up as a fluke, as I haven't been able to repeat (even with sorted pellets), and I'm not interested in going crazy over it.  I'll get out over the next few days to see if I can get consistent, repeatable accuracy with the larger head sized Barracudas at 50 yards.  Accuracy without consistency is worthless, unless you're dropping nukes.

[darryl]

well I feel for ya, but I'm slitting my throat anyway. I got the Pneuma cocking and shooting again. But now it has two barrel bands as is original configuration. The groups are alternating along with that buggaboo of inconsistent velocities. It tossed a couple of 14.66 grain pellets at over 1000fps, but then it tossed a few in the 900s and 800s and back to the 900s. At least I know it's in the trigger. Comparatively speaking the BAM B50 is a breath of fresh air. It's not quite as powerful as the Pneuma as it sits now, but it is much more accurate. Consistently. Next to get the Pneuma shooting at a consistent velocity. Such a problem child.
darryl
oh wait! a football game is on!

[coax]

So you're pretty sure the trigger adjustment has something to do with the velocities?  I thought about messing with mine after what Bob was saying, but found that my rifle likes higher fill pressures.   Also, my shot strings were decent, even if they looked like the hammer spring tension had already been adjusted compared to other strings I've seen (my peak velocities are in the 170 BAR range with heavy pellets and my velocities are high peaks- 922 with JSB 18.1, 870 with Barracudas, and 801 with JSB Monsters).

I hope to get some consistent love from this thing soon.

[darryl]

coax, from what I've learned here, the trigger adjustment seems to be the culprit. Once I had the trigger "properly" earlier (see the picture of the group on page 7) I saw some consistency. Today after installing the new parts, and finding that the gun would not cock, it was back into the trigger adjusting. Once I got it to cock, and shoot safely, I saw that the groups were again wide and separate, and the FPS was correspondingly wide and separate too. Am I 100% sure? NO. 98$% Yeah. I'll know soon enough when I can test again. I intend to experiment with backing out both front set screw a bit at a time, and in equal amounts to preserve the relationship that has the rifle cocking and shooting now. I'll watch the chrony to see what happens. Fingers crossed again.

Keep me posted on your results, but it seems you're about done.

[coax]

You might be able to get the Umarex guys or the seller to take a gun they have there and count the turns out from full in (clockwise) and start from scratch again.  It's just a thought and would require effort on their part.  Good luck with the other rifle too. 

I think I'm getting close, if the consistency is there.  I'm still thinking of another .22 for a slightly different purpose, plus the difference in wind drift with the Barracudas and Monsters is impressive.  It is not quite as good with the JSB 18.1, but still better than .177.

[darryl]

Effort on their part? When I first encountered issues with this rifle I called the seller (Airguns Of Arizona), and spoke with Kip. He reminded me that that any issues with the rifle need to be addressed with UMAREX.  End of that pursuit. UMAREX did a very focused test of the rifle, and it's gunsmith deemed it to be operating within the norm. I pointed out that I was getting 4 inch groups and larger at 30 yards, and was told that UMAREX tests at the accepted 10 meters. The rifle was shipped back (at my expense) as OK. So there we are, and that's that. I don't mind working on the trigger myself. I know I can make the rifle cock, and safe to shoot. In there somewhere is the adjustment that returns consistent FPS. I'll find it. It's been a learning experience I'd have never had otherwise.

The BAM B50 experience, so far, is almost the opposite of that with the Pneuma. Accurate out of the box, and almost as powerful without tweaking it, so far.  Aside from a few mods deemed essential By me and friends (full shroud) and aftermarket valve stem (made of sturdier stuff) I just want to enjoy this one. A few pictures: Note the one with the shroud. It's not mine, but is shows how the shroud looks.

[coax]

Okay, so no help there.  The testing was rediculous by Umarex.  Even the lowliest airguns seem to do better than that at 10M.  I still think you'll get'er done with some patience and time.  It's always good to be fortunate enough to have two projects going at the same time.  I'd be thinking one for serious power for long range thumping/target shooting and the other a higher shot count more mellow all-arounder.  I'll keep ya' posted. 

[darryl]

OK, good plan. Because of the better accuracy of the BAM B50, that will be my long range destroyer. The Pneuma will be my...oh wait...I'll sellit once it's performing correctly, and use the P-rod for for higher shot count and as the mellow all-arounder. Someone will get a good deal. Good luck on your efforts too.
Darryl

[coax]

I'm pretty much done with the Pneuma.  It does it's best work with both barrel bands off.  Though it has it's good days where it will average 0.56" to 0.84" inches at 50 yards, those are only one day for every four days it gets shot.  It for the most part is a 1.0" to 1.35" inch gun.  Which really isn't bad for cottontails and jack rabbits out to 60 or so yards and it's a hammer stock.  I'll use it within it's limits and enjoy it, as it didn't cost me large folding money. 

I'll look for something else for longer range shooting.  Randy from R&L Airguns (he is in the GTA Mall and a heck of a guy [they are big time into the Talons and Condors]), is building me up a Marauder to go out and shoot next week, to see what I think. He uses a LW barrel on his personal Marauder and the guys down his way don't seem to have the accuracy issues that have plagued the .22s.  I hate the stock on that thing, but look at it as more of a recreational and pest tool.  If that works out it may keep me from spending bigger bucks on a FX or something.  I'll be watching your BAM 50 progress!

[darryl]

You're done, coax. Coincidentally I am too. I've got the trigger catching safely, and the rifle cocking as it should with no issues. I've eliminated the wide shot-to-shot FPS variances, the the rifle is now performing consistently. Accuracy is as good as it will get with this barrel. Not great either. The BAM B50 out-performs it in that category. I could tweak the power by turning out the hammer adjustment, but as it is, using H&N FTT 14.66 grain pellets I'm seeing an average of a bit over 27FPE across 40 shots, from a fill of 190 bar down to 85 bar. Not too bad. I also have both barrel bands back in place. I'll leave well enough alone.Yep, next the BAM B50. Jay and Gary are standing by to work their mojo on it for me. 

Good luck with your Marauder trial. I hope you'll post your decision on which way you'll go. I don't think you can lose with the LW barrel. But what sort of rifle are you looking for, if you're parking the Pneuma? Long range and accurate to do what?

[coax]

I'll post what I end up doing.  I don't know for sure if he's building up a seperate one with a LW barrel, letting me shoot his, or just tuning up one with stock parts.  The guy has earned my trust and I'm willing to consider any suggestions he has.  He does a lot of custom stuff.  I'm not really parking the Pnuema.  It could end up with a bunch of plugged valve holes and a good shot count, which would put it more in line with the barrels capabilities.  I'm looking for something with accuracy, power for long range targets, thumping Praire Dogs, and that can push heavy pellets to buck the wind.  However, I really don't want a .25 cal at this point and I'm not sold on the Condors, at this point.  I will take those into consideration though on sound advice and I prefer not to have a loud bark (anything louder than the Pneuma is out).

[darryl]

My latest Pneuma test. Any thoughts on the rough-looking curve?

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae324/Flyby1/PneumaDec17FTT.jpg?t=1324262799

[aack73]

graph looks fairly flat ? can't see/read it well enough to see the numbers and what kind of spread your getting.? how does it shoot?