Author Topic: massive pcp failure, headed to the er (Read 24877 times))

ezman604 · « **Reply #40 on:** November 23, 2011, 12:36:34 PM »

Wow Mike, hope you recover okay brother. Be careful playing with BB guns!!!!
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave

only1harry · « **Reply #41 on:** November 23, 2011, 01:43:05 PM »

Quote from: spysir on November 23, 2011, 11:01:33 AM

I'll try not to say to much here.
You changed some striker(hammer) parts, then "fired it" but no air came out?
Just like most clock's. gauges do not talk, so it cant tell you it's empty.
Air gun gauges (all of them period) are for a general ref. only, you wont find a small one that works well enough to count on. Gauges only read correctly (even top dollar ones) in the middle of the pressure range.
After breaking the fill valve loose (32nd or so of a turn) and then all you needed was light finger pressure to remove it? If you need more force there is air inside (this applys to all airguns).
Say the firing valve was broken-wouldnt fire but darn sure had air in it- you would only be able to bleed the air off using the fill valve. Hook up your pump/tank, fill until the valve IS open then bleed air off SLOWLY, if you JUST crack the bleeder it will drain the entire air-tube.
Think I'll stop there, except glad you got lucky.
John

Yep.. I didn't want to say "too much either", or ask too many questions because of the injuries and recovery period.., but Mike knows what he did wrong, and how he could have done things differently now. I have never owned a pump, but "not being able to pump air into the gun" to me means that you should not be able to push down on the pump, or in the least hear a leak.. If it was pumping normal, then that means air was going into the gun's tank until it got much harder to pump near the maximum fill pressure. I would feel a lot more comfortable with a pump system or hose that has a secondary gauge on it to double-check the pressure and make sure it matches that of the Disco.

Whatever the case might be, the fact is, it takes an enormous amount of force to unscrew or remove a fill valve/adapter from any gun or fill-station/hose, like John said, when it is still pressurized, and the air has not been bled. If it's very difficult to unscrew a fill valve or any device attached to pressurized air, that should be a major clue that there is still air in the tank..

If you run into any kind of problem with a PCP and you are not sure how to correct it, PLEASE get on here or the Shop Talk/Mods Gate and ask for HELP first. We will make suggestions on how you can proceed and what to check in what order.

This is when I really like the design of the Talon/Condor. You can unscrew the tank from the gun/frame in 3-4 seconds and troubleshoot them separately. This does not unscrew the valve or fill valve/top hat, etc., just removes the entire tank intact in a couple of seconds . This also gives you peace of mind when working on or upgrading components in the gun, with the tank safely sitting on a table several feet away, full or degassed if you choose. There is no risk in accidentally discharging the gun because you are just left with the action and barrel.

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #42 on:** November 23, 2011, 01:52:21 PM »

You are right any pressure will make the parts hard to unscrew...and it should have been noticed in the first 1/8 th of a turn

Hindsight is 20/20

look at most of the old Crosman Mark I & II you find most have the knurls screwed up from channel locks. When the pistol started to shoot slow they wanted to change the bulb but the cap would not come off easy so they would use channel locks on them. If they would have read the manual they would know the cocking knobs can be pushed toward the valve at end of fill and degassed. CO2 pressures are alot less

Mike is very lucky this could have been MUCH worse!!!!!!!

MustangMike · « **Reply #43 on:** November 23, 2011, 02:09:05 PM »

yes the fill adapter was hard to unscrew.. the thought of pressure behind it didnt cross my mind and it should have. i thought the threads where damaged or it some gunk in the threads.. this was a highly stupid mistake the 2nd one i made that lead up to what happened.. i trusted the gauge, i got to comfy taking the rifle apart.. i was a stupid stupid man last night.. but i can own up and say this was my fault.. woke today wanting to shoot lol.. but ive got 3 holes to patch and a breech screw to get out so i can pull the valve and get to the bottem of why it didnt fire any air when i dry fired it..

today i still have some ringing in my right ear and my eye hurts about as bad as an eye hurts after it gets poked by a finger..hearing has returned to almost normal minus the ringing, vision is fine i havent noticed any loss of vision in my right eye..

tom- i am very very lucky even my dad kind of jumped on me for this when i told him about it today. i have decided tho to stick with a hand pump for a little while, tanks are a lot more dangerous then the airtube on the disco

but man i want to shoot today, any one know if the fill adapters can find local ? like what kind of place should i look for one at ? or would it be best to just order one from crosman

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 23, 2011, 02:16:25 PM »

Fill nipples at the paintball outlet for the 4500 PSI tanks might be a fit if they clear the endcap recess.

here is an example
http://www.ninjapaintball.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_91_A_subCatID_E_78_A_productID_E_103#

you might need to bring the endcap and make sure it fits.

MustangMike · « **Reply #45 on:** November 23, 2011, 02:19:20 PM »

gonna grab my yellow pages and start calling paintball shops.. id love to finsih the tear down and get to shoot today

Jay · « **Reply #46 on:** November 23, 2011, 03:10:24 PM »

Mike just came on an read your's an other's posting's. Brother I'm glad you seem to be recovering O.K. an all is returning to normal. Take the advice the guy's have given ya to heart when doing "any" type of work that involve's high pressure's. Again Mike glad your O.K.!!!

GSu · « **Reply #47 on:** November 23, 2011, 03:23:25 PM »

Wow Mike, just came on and saw your post. Glad you're OK and trying to get back on the horse asap. Hope you're feeling better and getting better.

Glen

bstaley · « **Reply #48 on:** November 23, 2011, 05:11:05 PM »

Is it possible that no air was coming out when you dry fired it because you were in complete valve lock? Since the gauge wasn't working could you have WAY over pumped it? Before removing the valve, you might just try pressurizing it a bit and see if air comes out when you dry fire. If it does, keep upping the pressure, until it's full, or air stops coming out.

Glad you're OK!

MustangMike · « **Reply #49 on:** November 23, 2011, 05:58:53 PM »

i was shooting the rifle the night before, then hung it up on my wall untill i got my parts in.. thats when i noticed the gauge said it was empty and wasnt shooting.. i did not over pump.. disco's are pumped to 2400psi all the time with the heavy hammer spring.. which i have done my self a few times and it shot just fine

lloyd-ss · « **Reply #50 on:** November 23, 2011, 06:06:11 PM »

Hey Mike,
Just noticed this scary thread. I am very glad you are recovering ok.

I am thinking the soft plastic material you had put in the tank for de-pinging slipped inside the tank and pluged the entrance to the air pressure gauge adapter. That gauge adapter just has a little (maybe 1/8") hole in it, and would be easy to block. That would have let all of the air be shot out of the valve and the gauge read empty, but the tank would still have full pressure in it. What makes that scenario even scarier is that if you had used the degassing tool at the back of the gun, no air would have come out when it pressed on the hammer. So you would have been "positive" the tank was empty, but it wouldn't have been.

Thanks for making us all be more safety conscious. We are playing with fire and need to respect it, because it doesn't care about us one bit.
Lloyd

SAADE · « **Reply #51 on:** November 23, 2011, 06:08:34 PM »

Anyone ever work in a garage or (what used to be) a "fillin station"? Ever pop the QD coupler loose on the compressed air line and let e'r fly? And thats only 150-160 psi!

Powerful stuff compressed air and gases, glad Mike is up and at it and sound enough to blog with us.

MustangMike · « **Reply #52 on:** November 23, 2011, 06:24:14 PM »

thanks guys, im fine well kind.. my right eye is sore about as sore as getting punched in the eye 3 or 4 days ago. best way to describe it.. hearing is slowly coming back little by little.. got a appointment tuesday with a ear doc just to be sure nothing major was damaged and to compare a normal 27yrs hearing to mine to again check for damage..

lloyd, since ive been tearing down the disco ive been suspecting exactly what you said.. (great minds think alike..lol) the first deping i did the tube rolled back the way it was since i had rolled it opposite of how i was before cutting the slit down it.. figured it wanting to unroll would keep it forced in there.. a day or 2 later i heard it sliding around and promptly removed it and used the silicone tubing i went out and bought just for the deping.. larger and thicker tubing... im think a peice or 2 from the first peice of fuel tubing i used came off and plugged things up.. altho i can remember double checking i didnt have any shavings hanging off it before incerting it in the air tube...

i can honestly for as bad as this went down it couldnt have gone better for something going bad.. this was a mike made failure.. a little ashamed of that but hey i can own up to my mistakes..

now i need to figure out how to get the valve out of the airtube and the gauge port peice out of the airtube so i can clean them up and inspect them then rethread my breech bolt threads since i had to drill it out

ive been wantin to do some shooting so so bad today its not even funny... i called every single paintball shop and even sent 2 of the guys pictures of the fill adapter i needed and i cannot find on in austin at all. which not worthy...

lloyd-ss · « **Reply #53 on:** November 23, 2011, 06:55:01 PM »

Mike,
Check out the videos I recently posted in Shop Talk about .25 cal Disco Fever and you'll see how to take it apart.
Lloyd

Bimota · « **Reply #54 on:** November 23, 2011, 07:09:08 PM »

WOW that was close.

Snaab9-2 · « **Reply #55 on:** November 23, 2011, 08:27:37 PM »

Glad you are "OK".... scary stuff.

TOM aka critter99 · « **Reply #56 on:** November 23, 2011, 08:38:24 PM »

Quote from: mustangmike on November 23, 2011, 06:24:14 PM

thanks guys, im fine well kind.. my right eye is sore about as sore as getting punched in the eye 3 or 4 days ago. best way to describe it.. hearing is slowly coming back little by little.. got a appointment tuesday with a ear doc just to be sure nothing major was damaged and to compare a normal 27yrs hearing to mine to again check for damage..

lloyd, since ive been tearing down the disco ive been suspecting exactly what you said.. (great minds think alike..lol) the first deping i did the tube rolled back the way it was since i had rolled it opposite of how i was before cutting the slit down it.. figured it wanting to unroll would keep it forced in there.. a day or 2 later i heard it sliding around and promptly removed it and used the silicone tubing i went out and bought just for the deping.. larger and thicker tubing... im think a peice or 2 from the first peice of fuel tubing i used came off and plugged things up.. altho i can remember double checking i didnt have any shavings hanging off it before incerting it in the air tube...

i can honestly for as bad as this went down it couldnt have gone better for something going bad.. this was a mike made failure.. a little ashamed of that but hey i can own up to my mistakes..

now i need to figure out how to get the valve out of the airtube and the gauge port peice out of the airtube so i can clean them up and inspect them then rethread my breech bolt threads since i had to drill it out

ive been wantin to do some shooting so so bad today its not even funny... i called every single paintball shop and even sent 2 of the guys pictures of the fill adapter i needed and i cannot find on in austin at all. which not worthy...

thats amazing because every single paintball shop here is Detroit area carries them the fit both the 3000 and 4500 regged tanks to fill them. Paintball guys carry spares with them so when the valve fouls they swap it right out at the field and refill.

Maybe you talked to the wrong guy try the biggest field that has its own compressor and talk to the guy who runs it (the compressor) they usually know the most as the rest are just retail sales clerks....

I'll bet you are crawling thru the attic right now with a mag light in your teeth looking for it

Ribbonstone · « **Reply #57 on:** November 23, 2011, 09:05:06 PM »

Hopfully you'll recover and be fine. Good to post the accident, helps make us all more cautious.

I've gotten paranoid about pressure in the tube...although my "whoops" was not nearly as drastic. Hard to be 100% sure there is no pressure in the tube.

If there is a gauge that functions correctly, may still not read that last 200PSI. Normally will manually depress the fill nipple's inner rod..if it is truely empty, should be able to.

But even with all that...gauge reading zero, gun not even making a burp when dry fired, and the fill nipple stem being free to depress...will slowly open the end of the tube a fraction of a turn, and look for air. then if it freely truns, open it one full turn and listen for air.

And even after all that..will be sure to stand to the side and point that end cap at something non-valuable as I turn it out.

My whoops? air tube with no gauge..an experimental valve that wouldn't have let loose no matter how hard you hit it...and a fill probe so i couldn't do the fill-nipple-check. A little dryw all, a little spackling, a little paint, and a lot of griping by the wife.

Rickey · « **Reply #58 on:** November 23, 2011, 09:12:00 PM »

Mike I'm glad your not hurt really bad. Will keep you in my prayers for a complete recovery. Rickey

rsterne · « **Reply #59 on:** November 24, 2011, 12:25:22 AM »

Holy heck!!!.... Just got on to read this.... Glad you're OK for the most part Mike.... There is a lesson there for ALL of us....

Bob

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massive pcp failure, headed to the er

Author Topic: massive pcp failure, headed to the er (Read 24877 times))