We all love German springers, but...

[JimmyD.]

I can’t say I enjoy a TO1 trigger blade or system compared to the Rekord or CDT.
In fact it is the only reason I am considering selling my 52 .25 although I have to test against the English Patriot and HW90/RX2 .25’s.
The 52 can print sub 1/2” at 72 yards with 20.14 FTT in no wind, rested, at what should be more like 740 but is probably only 680 at most right now. At least John in PA said that the longer stroke TO1 should be able to with 20 grain.

I’m just starting my airgun tip, mod, realities, group shooting and discussion channel on YouTube and Instagram. Yes I have been around over 15 years but just getting into anything Social Media other than these forums.
  I’m grateful for the opportunity to learn and experience all because of these forums. No great real airgun store around me lol. Never would have seen them otherwise!

  I’m considering going to the biggest show in VA this March/April. 1300 tables and an older Air Force friend really needs help watching & getting all his archery equipment in.
I’m wondering if anything airgun related would be there. If it’s worth bringing airguns that I would need bigger money for. Like maybe a .257 Scandalous or something. I don’t think people start paying 2700+ for any “toy.”
Sad that they think that. I’ve shot more from my porch out to 300 than most ever get to. If I had to go to a “range” to be hit with hot brass as a lefty? Nope

[Hoosier Daddy]

Yes, I have gotten some fine deals on AirGuns at Gun shows because people look at them as "toys".

[buellm2]

I'm somewhat interested in lots of springers, including German springers but the only one I really want is the FWB 124.   I'm still kicking myself re the last auction.   There was a FWB 124 that went for $180.  It had some cosmetic issues but was probably well worth the price.

[Yogi]

I can’t say I enjoy a TO1 trigger blade or system compared to the Rekord or CDT.
In fact it is the only reason I am considering selling my 52 .25 although I have to test against the English Patriot and HW90/RX2 .25’s.
The 52 can print sub 1/2” at 72 yards with 20.14 FTT in no wind, rested, at what should be more like 740 but is probably only 680 at most right now. At least John in PA said that the longer stroke TO1 should be able to with 20 grain.

I’m just starting my airgun tip, mod, realities, group shooting and discussion channel on YouTube and Instagram. Yes I have been around over 15 years but just getting into anything Social Media other than these forums.
  I’m grateful for the opportunity to learn and experience all because of these forums. No great real airgun store around me lol. Never would have seen them otherwise!

  I’m considering going to the biggest show in VA this March/April. 1300 tables and an older Air Force friend really needs help watching & getting all his archery equipment in.
I’m wondering if anything airgun related would be there. If it’s worth bringing airguns that I would need bigger money for. Like maybe a .257 Scandalous or something. I don’t think people start paying 2700+ for any “toy.”
Sad that they think that. I’ve shot more from my porch out to 300 than most ever get to. If I had to go to a “range” to be hit with hot brass as a lefty? Nope

Trying to get your 15 minutes are you?

-Y

[Sqwirl57]

I have several of both and definitely prefer the Weihrauchs over the Diana but that little D34 is probably the most versatile gun in the bunch. From 12ftlbs up to 20ftlbs that gun just shoots great. That being said neither are really my favorite German springers. I'd probably say Feinwerkbau is #1 with Walther as a close second. Then again Diana and Weihrauch both make my two favorite guns, the D75 amd th HW55.

The more I type here the more I'm realizing I really couldn't pick an absolute favorite German springer company. They've all added a ton of value to the industry and I appreciate them all.

[Kragman1]

Jon, when I wrote the first post I was limited in my scope, as FWB really doesn't have a "line up" and Walthers are awfully scarce in my circles.  But it  could have been, and maybe should have been, more open ended.

[Yogi]

Jon, when I wrote the first post I was limited in my scope, as FWB really doesn't have a "line up" and Walthers are awfully scarce in my circles.  But it  could have been, and maybe should have been, more open ended.

Brian,

Since both Walther and FWB are out of the springer market, at present, you were correct in not including them.
If somebody asks, "what is the best American made car?" the answer should not be Packard!

-Y

[Kragman1]

Springers last a long time Yogi.

I really wanted to know if people had changed their preference over time, and in which direction.
I wasn't trying to stick to current production, though it seems pretty natural to assume that.

If someone were to say that they've sold off all of their other springers for old Walthers because of design and/or quality differences, that would be right on the mark.

[Sqwirl57]

Jon, when I wrote the first post I was limited in my scope, as FWB really doesn't have a "line up" and Walthers are awfully scarce in my circles.  But it  could have been, and maybe should have been, more open ended.

Brian,

Since both Walther and FWB are out of the springer market, at present, you were correct in not including them.
If somebody asks, "what is the best American made car?" the answer should not be Packard!

-Y

The reason why Weihrauch and Diana are still in the game is because they make guns to a cheaper standard and therefore have kept prices a bit more reasonable in a day and age where PCPs are king. Their performance is great but the build quality is lacking in comparison to Walther and FWB. Walther with their double walled tube and that spring loaded synthetic cocking arm guide and FWB with basically everything including the engineering. The new Sport may be the best engineered break barrel to date. No matter where that gun recoils it puts a pellet in the same spot every time. I know some people will say "Oh but the plastic trigger guard on the Sport and trigger on LGU/LGV" but my response is a simple "who cares?". I've seen just as many broken metal triggers as I have plastic ones.

I bring this up in the hopes that Walther and FWB get back in the game. Their products were nothing short of fantastic and deserve to still be made. Same reason I will still say the ASP20 is the best hunting break barrel. I hope SIG sees the positivity and decides to take another shot at it even if the price is higher.

[avator]

Jon, when I wrote the first post I was limited in my scope, as FWB really doesn't have a "line up" and Walthers are awfully scarce in my circles.  But it  could have been, and maybe should have been, more open ended.

Brian,

Since both Walther and FWB are out of the springer market, at present, you were correct in not including them.
If somebody asks, "what is the best American made car?" the answer should not be Packard!

-Y

The reason why Weihrauch and Diana are still in the game is because they make guns to a cheaper standard and therefore have kept prices a bit more reasonable in a day and age where PCPs are king. Their performance is great but the build quality is lacking in comparison to Walther and FWB. Walther with their double walled tube and that spring loaded synthetic cocking arm guide and FWB with basically everything including the engineering. The new Sport may be the best engineered break barrel to date. No matter where that gun recoils it puts a pellet in the same spot every time. I know some people will say "Oh but the plastic trigger guard on the Sport and trigger on LGU/LGV" but my response is a simple "who cares?". I've seen just as many broken metal triggers as I have plastic ones.

I bring this up in the hopes that Walther and FWB get back in the game. Their products were nothing short of fantastic and deserve to still be made. Same reason I will still say the ASP20 is the best hunting break barrel. I hope SIG sees the positivity and decides to take another shot at it even if the price is higher.

Well, since we're going off the rail here... I've only owned a couple German airguns and and neither one hit the bullseye any different than any other springer I own. Hitting the bullseye is the goal. I have some really great shooting springers that make me smile every time and none of them are German made. But if it really matters to you what you use to hit that bullseye that's fine... use it. That's why all the cars parked in the parking lot at the mall aren't the same brand. 
Sorry, back to your comparisons among the German guns now.   

[Sqwirl57]

Jon, when I wrote the first post I was limited in my scope, as FWB really doesn't have a "line up" and Walthers are awfully scarce in my circles.  But it  could have been, and maybe should have been, more open ended.

Brian,

Since both Walther and FWB are out of the springer market, at present, you were correct in not including them.
If somebody asks, "what is the best American made car?" the answer should not be Packard!

-Y

The reason why Weihrauch and Diana are still in the game is because they make guns to a cheaper standard and therefore have kept prices a bit more reasonable in a day and age where PCPs are king. Their performance is great but the build quality is lacking in comparison to Walther and FWB. Walther with their double walled tube and that spring loaded synthetic cocking arm guide and FWB with basically everything including the engineering. The new Sport may be the best engineered break barrel to date. No matter where that gun recoils it puts a pellet in the same spot every time. I know some people will say "Oh but the plastic trigger guard on the Sport and trigger on LGU/LGV" but my response is a simple "who cares?". I've seen just as many broken metal triggers as I have plastic ones.

I bring this up in the hopes that Walther and FWB get back in the game. Their products were nothing short of fantastic and deserve to still be made. Same reason I will still say the ASP20 is the best hunting break barrel. I hope SIG sees the positivity and decides to take another shot at it even if the price is higher.

Well, since we're going off the rail here... I've only owned a couple German airguns and and neither one hit the bullseye any different than any other springer I own. Hitting the bullseye is the goal. I have some really great shooting springers that make me smile every time and none of them are German made. But if it really matters to you what you use to hit that bullseye that's fine... use it. That's why all the cars parked in the parking lot at the mall aren't the same brand. 
Sorry, back to your comparisons among the German guns now.   

The comment wasn't off the rails at all. The original post asks "Which German springers are your favorites and why?" My response leans heavily on the "why".

[avator]

I read that. It ended in a "but". Then I read the first line in the actual post that continued the statement.   

Then farther down in the thread the OP kinda opened it up to go off the rail as others already had. I wasn't thumbing my nose at you, or anyone else for that matter.

[Sqwirl57]

I just wouldn't call it "going off the rails" is all. The original question had been asked and answered for 12 pages. Expanding to other German manufacturers is just a natural progression of things. Weihrauch is the best currently made collection but the best German springer period? Not at all in my opinion.

[HectorMedina]

The reason why Weihrauch and Diana are still in the game is because they make guns to a cheaper standard and therefore have kept prices a bit more reasonable in a day and age where PCPs are king. Their performance is great but the build quality is lacking in comparison to Walther and FWB. Walther with their double walled tube and that spring loaded synthetic cocking arm guide and FWB with basically everything including the engineering. The new Sport may be the best engineered break barrel to date. No matter where that gun recoils it puts a pellet in the same spot every time. I know some people will say "Oh but the plastic trigger guard on the Sport and trigger on LGU/LGV" but my response is a simple "who cares?". I've seen just as many broken metal triggers as I have plastic ones.

I bring this up in the hopes that Walther and FWB get back in the game. Their products were nothing short of fantastic and deserve to still be made. Same reason I will still say the ASP20 is the best hunting break barrel. I hope SIG sees the positivity and decides to take another shot at it even if the price is higher.

Hello Jon!

Nice to see another spring-gun dedicated airgunsmith. Nice website.

Sadly, SIG is going to be too busy with military contracts for the next decade or two, to even think about airguns.

Walther "jumped the gun" and got out of the spring-piston market a year before the Century Varmint (a gun built to a reasonable budget) could take hold and start selling in substantial numbers.
FWB decided to concentrate on the high end, Match style, PCP's, same as Anschütz.

Now, in a somewhat impolite honesty, I would not consider the ASP-10 a German springer. Designed and made in the USA it carried a lot of practical, Yankee style, engineering. The brand may be part of a German group; same group as DIANA and, MAYBE one of the reasons the TOP-TOP-TOP brass decided that one company should not tread on the toes of a "sister company", plus the fact of the long term liability of the complex service issues, and cut the ASP-10's wings.

In any case, the REAL point is that it seems that we, airgunners, want to have our cake and eat it too because we want "quality" (whatever that is for each one of us) at UN-reasonable prices. And that is why I say that we are our own best enemies.

:-(

Congrats on your website, keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[Sqwirl57]

The reason why Weihrauch and Diana are still in the game is because they make guns to a cheaper standard and therefore have kept prices a bit more reasonable in a day and age where PCPs are king. Their performance is great but the build quality is lacking in comparison to Walther and FWB. Walther with their double walled tube and that spring loaded synthetic cocking arm guide and FWB with basically everything including the engineering. The new Sport may be the best engineered break barrel to date. No matter where that gun recoils it puts a pellet in the same spot every time. I know some people will say "Oh but the plastic trigger guard on the Sport and trigger on LGU/LGV" but my response is a simple "who cares?". I've seen just as many broken metal triggers as I have plastic ones.

I bring this up in the hopes that Walther and FWB get back in the game. Their products were nothing short of fantastic and deserve to still be made. Same reason I will still say the ASP20 is the best hunting break barrel. I hope SIG sees the positivity and decides to take another shot at it even if the price is higher.

Hello Jon!

Nice to see another spring-gun dedicated airgunsmith. Nice website.

Sadly, SIG is going to be too busy with military contracts for the next decade or two, to even think about airguns.

Walther "jumped the gun" and got out of the spring-piston market a year before the Century Varmint (a gun built to a reasonable budget) could take hold and start selling in substantial numbers.
FWB decided to concentrate on the high end, Match style, PCP's, same as Anschütz.

Now, in a somewhat impolite honesty, I would not consider the ASP-10 a German springer. Designed and made in the USA it carried a lot of practical, Yankee style, engineering. The brand may be part of a German group; same group as DIANA and, MAYBE one of the reasons the TOP-TOP-TOP brass decided that one company should not tread on the toes of a "sister company", plus the fact of the long term liability of the complex service issues, and cut the ASP-10's wings.

In any case, the REAL point is that it seems that we, airgunners, want to have our cake and eat it too because we want "quality" (whatever that is for each one of us) at UN-reasonable prices. And that is why I say that we are our own best enemies.

:-(

Congrats on your website, keep well and shoot straight!





HM

Hey Hector! Long time no see. Hope all is well! Looks like you got that LGV of yours kicking some butt the last few matches before winter.

Sadly I know you're right on all accounts. Not many people are willing to spend $1k+ on a springer and truthfully I can't blame them. I think thats how Weihrauch and Diana have managed to stay in buisness all these years. An overall excellent product with production costs cut where they wouldn't matter so much. My one hope for the future is that FWB decides to once again go back to their roots and put out something. Maybe in a decade or two 😆

I hadn't actually considered the ASP to be German although that logic would check out. As far as I knew the were designed and made here in the US. I was unaware of their parent company and appreciate the correction there.

[SpiralGroove]

Jon, when I wrote the first post I was limited in my scope, as FWB really doesn't have a "line up" and Walthers are awfully scarce in my circles.  But it  could have been, and maybe should have been, more open ended.

Brian,

Since both Walther and FWB are out of the springer market, at present, you were correct in not including them.
If somebody asks, "what is the best American made car?" the answer should not be Packard!

-Y

The reason why Weihrauch and Diana are still in the game is because they make guns to a cheaper standard and therefore have kept prices a bit more reasonable in a day and age where PCPs are king. Their performance is great but the build quality is lacking in comparison to Walther and FWB. Walther with their double walled tube and that spring loaded synthetic cocking arm guide and FWB with basically everything including the engineering. The new Sport may be the best engineered break barrel to date. No matter where that gun recoils it puts a pellet in the same spot every time. I know some people will say "Oh but the plastic trigger guard on the Sport and trigger on LGU/LGV" but my response is a simple "who cares?". I've seen just as many broken metal triggers as I have plastic ones.

I bring this up in the hopes that Walther and FWB get back in the game. Their products were nothing short of fantastic and deserve to still be made. Same reason I will still say the ASP20 is the best hunting break barrel. I hope SIG sees the positivity and decides to take another shot at it even if the price is higher.

While the FWB Sport, Walther LGV/LGU and SIG ASP 20 had some new, revolutionary qualities - they were frankly discontinued because they couldn't sell them.  Apparently, not good enough.
Kinda like the DeLorean - big splash when they hit the market  ..... then a financial dog because those qualities were not appreciated by enough people.

While Weihrauch has pedestrian internals, overall - they're pretty fine rifles.  You're right though, adding basic inflation - going back to the 1980's, their current offerings are well below what they should be.  There relatively (unchanged) designs are very simple which has been one of the reasons they're so durable.
Beeman obviously pick them for his R1 design for a reason.

I see your website offerings are pretty much Cometa springers from Spain.  I wouldn't exactly call this inventory quality German rifles, but you're trying to eat. 
I think if you sold what your exposing, you'd be out of business ...... which is why Diana is now selling Chinese guns.   

[Novagun]

The title of the thread to me makes a statement that is qualified with the but .  The first sentence then goes on to seek a comparison. I am still hung up on the but.   Yes we do like German springers and the Weihrauchs are good  . As good as you could wish for in what they provide in the HW range .
The information that  Hector and others have offered is enlightening. The path that Diana,seems to be setting up doesn' t bode well for people like me . I am still disappointed at the quality of the D 340 N tech that I had . I wanted a cracker hunting gun and it fell far short of the mark . I was not and still not prepared to buy a very expensive D460 or even a D350. The reports,are just not good enough.
The but for me is that Gamo fills the slot that I am interested in and at a much lesser price .

This is a very good thread that I have appreciated but it does not come up with any useful conclusion because it didn't really set out to do that and it leaves me seeking more . I can-t quite define what that more is.  Just a nice rifle that shoots well and HW fits that criteria but .......if you read this garbage then you now know that your time would have been better spent shooting. 

[Denby95]

if you read this garbage then you now know that your time would have been better spent shooting.

Couldn't agree more after reading all 12 pages!

[SpiralGroove]

This is a very good thread that I have appreciated, but it leaves me seeking more. I can't quite define what that more is, but .......if you read this garbage then you now know that your time would have been better spent shooting.

Like a good pulp novel, it's content may not completely satisfy you, but you can't stop reading .............. .
Some people will always like Weihrauch more and some folks will always prefer Diana. 
Like cigarette ads of the 1970's, some people would rather fight than switch .

As Springer enthusiasts, we have been lucky Weihrauch remains Family owned, because when accountants get involved in something other than numbers, bad things happen.
If Weihrauch sold out to some business conglomerate, the HW 57 would be cut with the first cost/benefit analysis. 

[Sqwirl57]

Jon, when I wrote the first post I was limited in my scope, as FWB really doesn't have a "line up" and Walthers are awfully scarce in my circles.  But it  could have been, and maybe should have been, more open ended.

Brian,

Since both Walther and FWB are out of the springer market, at present, you were correct in not including them.
If somebody asks, "what is the best American made car?" the answer should not be Packard!

-Y

The reason why Weihrauch and Diana are still in the game is because they make guns to a cheaper standard and therefore have kept prices a bit more reasonable in a day and age where PCPs are king. Their performance is great but the build quality is lacking in comparison to Walther and FWB. Walther with their double walled tube and that spring loaded synthetic cocking arm guide and FWB with basically everything including the engineering. The new Sport may be the best engineered break barrel to date. No matter where that gun recoils it puts a pellet in the same spot every time. I know some people will say "Oh but the plastic trigger guard on the Sport and trigger on LGU/LGV" but my response is a simple "who cares?". I've seen just as many broken metal triggers as I have plastic ones.

I bring this up in the hopes that Walther and FWB get back in the game. Their products were nothing short of fantastic and deserve to still be made. Same reason I will still say the ASP20 is the best hunting break barrel. I hope SIG sees the positivity and decides to take another shot at it even if the price is higher.

While the FWB Sport, Walther LGV/LGU and SIG ASP 20 had some new, revolutionary qualities - they were frankly discontinued because they couldn't sell them.  Apparently, not good enough.
Kinda like the DeLorean - big splash when they hit the market  ..... then a financial dog because those qualities were not appreciated by enough people.

While Weihrauch has pedestrian internals, overall - they're pretty fine rifles.  You're right though, adding basic inflation - going back to the 1980's, their current offerings are well below what they should be.  There relatively (unchanged) designs are very simple which has been one of the reasons they're so durable.
Beeman obviously pick them for his R1 design for a reason.

I see your website offerings are pretty much Cometa springers from Spain.  I wouldn't exactly call this inventory quality German rifles, but you're trying to eat. 
I think if you sold what your exposing, you'd be out of business ...... which is why Diana is now selling Chinese guns.

I agree with everything you're saying but I absolutely would not be out of buisness haha. I'm in kind of a unique position here. I'm not in this for the money. My regular 7am-4pm job of turning wrenches pays the bills. This is just a fun side project that started when I ran a group buy for members here and on the other forum. When I sent the group order into Cometa they gave me a second price sheet of what costs would be had I placed a bigger order. The difference was enough for me to throw my own money in on the deal. I could have made an easy $2k on the group buy alone but instead passed the extra savings (that I paid for) down to everyone involved. There are people on this forum who can verify that they did indeed get their guns for $40-$50 less than the original quote. They can also verify that the prices on my site aren't all that much higher than what they paid. Like I said, I don't do this for money. I do this because I love this hobby and I REALLY love spring guns.

I bring that up only because I think that had I been given the opportunity to sell those FWB Sports things would have played out differently for them. A) They wouldn't have left my place with those poorly fitted guides, the one negative thing about an otherwise perfect gun in my opinion. B) I wouldn't have marked them up to a $1k when they were first released. Given what they sell for now I'd say that markup was probably pretty exorbitant.