We all love German springers, but...

[Mark 611]

Here's how I look at air guns, when you get a new gun? first thing I do is look it over to make sure it not damaged in anyway. then I check the stock screws to make sure their tight! clean the barrel and start shooting it! I check it for mechanical function and accuracy, if all that's good? I'll know with in 30 to 50 pellets! and then after that I'm going to tear the rifle down and clean it up inside deburr it sleeve out lube it properly, I may not install an aftermarket spring kit and seals until I'm ready to! It all depends on what I find after the gun is opened up? I know there's a lot of folks out there who don't have the knowledge or skills to do what a lot of us here do, I get that, this why most of us stress to purchase a quality air gun to begin with! even quality air manufactures make a bad gun once in a while! and believe me you'll hear about it! Warranties go out the window as soon as you alter the rifle! unless you have a really messed up gun to begin with? I'll add more to this later, time for me to eat and I have to work a 12.5HR shift tomorrow!

[Yarddog]

Mox nix to me. I have both. I make purchase decisions based upon the individual rifle, not brand loyalty!

[splitbeing]

I've got a .22 Diana 460 but have been a .177 only household for a while. Maybe I'll try to trade for a .177 HW that fits me (the R7 is too small for me, only HW rifle I have or have shot)

[lowpwrplnkr]

Is it really a question of HW vs Diana or is it more about how many one can keep? And not in a cheeky, "oh I bought another one..." sort of way. I like a gun for this range, a gun for that range, this caliber, that, and so on. There's a lot of variety between the two brands, so much that I spend more time maintaining and organizing than I do shooting, and I usually keep less than 6 rifles.

[Methuselah]

I'm worried saying too much will lead to someone taking something personal or worse.

Let's just say not every Dana, nor HW airgun will be 100% and not every defect will show up during the return window (if there is one). I beat the drum enough this thread considering it wasn't mine.

I just wish others better luck than I've had.

This is a really good thread, if I've disrupted it I apologize.

[Methuselah]

P.S.

Both manufacturers make an airgun of sufficient quality that given "proper attention" they may be passed onto the next generation.

Both have their own special appeals.

Fair enough?

[Kragman1]

All,

To get this nudged back on track, what I'm asking about is how various shooters may (or may not) have started out as fans of one, but with experience shifted their preference to another.

Their are definitely good reasons to do so, in either direction.

That said, this has been a very good thread even with a 10% topic creep....

[Mark 611]

Back to what I was saying earlier, have owned and tuned more air rifles than I can count, you see what different manufactures do and don't do as far as quality, you see their weak and strong points and value for your money, I started off shooting Powerline 880's and Crosman 760 pumpers and Crosman pistols back in the 70's!! when I was a young teenager. so, air guns are nothing new to me, actually my dad started myself and my 2 brothers shooting when we were about 5yrs of age! so, like I said this is nothing new to me! and air guns have come a long way since then. I used to think anyone how paid more than $100 dollars for an air rifle something must have wrong with them! until I purchased my first real air gun, that was a German made 1! and that was an HW, everything else followed. AIRARMS, Diana, FWB, {ETC} and I have had many examples of all of them, and yes, I like them all! But as a whole HW is the best bang for your buck! No feathers ruffled here, no offence take from anyone either! this is my experience from many many years of shooting and owning all of these types of air guns and tuning them and shooting them, and did I say shooting them? I did!!! oh well buy what you want it's your money! I get it I also chased for the ultimate gun and always end back up to an HW air gun YMMV

[triggerfest]

I bet all of that is great and true. For you.

But...

With my Diana's and Air Arms I have never ever had the itch (not even slightly) to tweak and tune my airguns. With a weihrauch... I definitely did. After 10 shots already.

[SpiralGroove]

Just went to the Diana and Weihrauch Website to view their current offerings:

Two things seem pretty obvious:
- Diana is struggling to find their brand - (look at all the models which will be gone in a year or two ).
- Their 5 best guns don't even try to compete with Weihrauch (D54, D460, D48, D34 and D350).

The Diana XR200 is likely going to be their latest PCP failure ...........

The only reason they stay alive is their non-Weihrauch (Springer) qualities (power and low recoil in side levers).

If they didn't go after these market segments they'd be out of business.

[avator]

Agreed. Their rebranded Chinese offerings reaping profits of late.

[splitbeing]

Which Diana models might be discontiued soon? The 34 is sadly gone. I hadn't heard others were on their way out.

[Denby95]

Just went to the Diana and Weihrauch Website to view their current offerings:

Two things seem pretty obvious:
- Diana is struggling to find their brand - (look at all the models which will be gone in a year or two ).
- Their 5 best guns don't even try to compete with Weihrauch (D54, D460, D48, D34 and D350).

The Diana XR200 is likely going to be their latest PCP failure ...........

The only reason they stay alive is their non-Weihrauch (Springer) qualities (power and low recoil in side levers).

If they didn't go after these market segments they'd be out of business.

Do you have any evidence this statement of Diana rifles that "look at all the models which will be gone in a year or two"? You also stated Diana outsells HW and were asked for evidence for that and have yet to provide that. It is time to back statements with evidence.

[triggerfest]

Just went to the Diana and Weihrauch Website to view their current offerings:

Two things seem pretty obvious:
- Diana is struggling to find their brand - (look at all the models which will be gone in a year or two ).
- Their 5 best guns don't even try to compete with Weihrauch (D54, D460, D48, D34 and D350).

The Diana XR200 is likely going to be their latest PCP failure ...........

The only reason they stay alive is their non-Weihrauch (Springer) qualities (power and low recoil in side levers).

If they didn't go after these market segments they'd be out of business.

Do you have any evidence this statement of Diana rifles that "look at all the models which will be gone in a year or two"? You also stated Diana outsells HW and were asked for evidence for that and have yet to provide that. It is time to back statements with evidence.

+1

[SpiralGroove]

Look at the D54 at AOA, it's the only Diana which has held it's value vs. the market.
AOA has the D460 and D350 for $399 ................. only because they can't sell them.

Most other Diana's are made in China and/or have plastic stocks, these models will likely be gone in a couple of years.

In the last 6/7 years, Diana has brought out many different PCP's and Springers into the market .... which have failed.
It's obvious their management lack the ability to design/develop quality guns which customers value.

The only Weihrauch Springer which sell for less than almost all Diana's except the D54 is the HW30S.
This should tell you something ...................

Hector can only do so much .......................

[Methuselah]

Look at the D54 at AOA, it's the only Diana which has held it's value vs. the market.
AOA has the D460 and D350 for $399 ................. only because they can't sell them.

...

This should tell you something ...................

Hector can only do so much .......................

TBH Dana couldn't sell those to some of us period. Not at any price.

(Does that count)

[Crowman]

I have most the current rifles in Air Arms and Weihrauch before I started buying Diana. Missing the HW57. In the last  1 1/2 yrs I bought 7-8 Diana’s.
I found the Diana’s deliver a harder shot with great accuracy. All of them.
When they use sights like on the 460, what happened. It does go with the plastic safety that’s on all their rifles. So sad, so close.
I’m not an expert like a lot of the members, but I know the difference in quality parts in the inside as well. I’ve got 3 or 4 Diana’s that I’m changing springs and piston seals soon as well of other makes.

[Crowman]

Hit the send by mistake.
I like shooting the Diana’s, love the whack.
IMO they’re next in line, they’re not better. Not a chance. Crow

[SpiralGroove]

Just went to the Diana and Weihrauch Website to view their current offerings:

Two things seem pretty obvious:
- Diana is struggling to find their brand - (look at all the models which will be gone in a year or two ).
- Their 5 best guns don't even try to compete with Weihrauch (D54, D460, D48, D34 and D350).

The Diana XR200 is likely going to be their latest PCP failure ...........

The only reason they stay alive is their non-Weihrauch (Springer) qualities (power and low recoil in side levers).

If they didn't go after these market segments they'd be out of business.

Do you have any evidence this statement of Diana rifles that "look at all the models which will be gone in a year or two"? You also stated Diana outsells HW and were asked for evidence for that and have yet to provide that. It is time to back statements with evidence.

I've not been able to access this information.
- Hector may have access.

However, go on-line with AOA and select "Spring Piston Airguns".  They have 2 pages of Springer models.
The first page only includes Weihrauch guns.  Page 2 has a few Diana's at the bottom of the page.

Takeaways:
- AOA would be stupid from a Marketing stand point, if they didn't list their best sellers on the first page .
- Almost all Weihrauch offerings on Page 1 are Pre-Order (aka sold out) -> and require a deposit.
- All Weihrauch models except the HW30S cost the same of more than all Diana offerings, except the D54.
- Every Diana Airgun offering is in stock
- Diana can't sell their more powerful air guns .... even at prices lower than almost all Weihrauch models.

This does not portray Diana as a flourishing business.

This, while not reflecting actual sales numbers, does suggest Diana is becoming irrelevant in the World of Airguns.   
 

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Guys,
Remember .... I don't think (German) Diana guns are bad in any way.
Matter of fact, I think they're quite Good - however, bad management and marketing choices have hurt their desirability.