We all love German springers, but...

[avator]

Glad to see someone give mention to AA even though the topic is German specific.
I'm not into heavy upper crust springers but if I were I'd have to take a long hard look at a TX200.

[Kragman1]

" Diana, which I still appreciate and consider a standard for quality, has switched a few of they're parts for plastic to most likely cut costs. It's completely understandable but I still hate seeing it. "

This statement is a much better worded summation of how I feel.  👍

[triggerfest]

All that being said, I love Walthers the most, and would happily trade a bunch of Dianas and Weihrauchs for them. They got 'em right.

I am glad that you're calling out the Walthers. I have shot the LGV, LGU and owned a Terrus (still regret selling it). Weihrauch is not even in the Shadow of a Walther. Btw. to me an airgun is more than a trigger, so don't call out the Rekord trigger pls. What about ergonomics, the Lother Walther barrels, the internals etc. Walther wins hands downs from Weihrauch.

[Kragman1]

Guess who missed out on an early LGV earlier this year....  🙄

[north country gal]

Maybe no secret that I shoot mostly the lighter HW springers, now, or when I get the craving for shooting small groups with a gun that gets your attention with snappy recoil, the FWB Sport. If Diana offered more in the lighter break barrel HW30/50 class, I'd take a look, but not much there. I've never had an interest in the huge Diana side levers because I'd need a golf cart to move them. Great guns - no arguments there - just too darn big for my shooting. The older I get, the more I question a 10 pound gun to shoot a 10 gram pellet.

[north country gal]

Maybe no secret that I shoot mostly the lighter HW springers, now, or when I get the craving for shooting small groups with a gun that gets your attention with snappy recoil, the FWB Sport. If Diana offered more in the lighter break barrel HW30/50 class, I'd take a look, but not much there. I've never had an interest in the huge Diana side levers because I'd need a golf cart to move them. Great guns - no arguments there - just too darn big for my shooting. The older I get, the more I question a 10 pound gun to shoot a 10 gr pellet.

I should add that I do still have a Diana RWS 45 made in 1987 and I really appreciate it and enjoy shooting it.

[Whirligig]

...how many of us are torn between Diana and Weihrauch?

I ask because I find myself increasingly leaning towards one over the other, and I don't know if it's just a subjective preference or if more exposure to both (I've bought one of each recently, neither purchase planned) has just shown me which manufacturer is "better".  To be sure, I really like both. 

I'm wondering if anyone out there has gone from being "a Diana guy" to Weihrauch, or from Weihrauch to Diana over time.  And if so, why?  Because if you have worked on many of both, and were influenced by what you found internally, I'd surely like to know that.


I'm just a driver, not a mechanic so, speaking for myself:

From the little D27 to the much bigger Diana's, I can appreciate the intention behind all of them and the good work that went into them. Especially the older ones like my D45. 
Great stuff and at good prices, although there are a few product compromises that I wish Diana had never made.  The plastic D460 sight design for example.  Or the plastic end caps on the compression tubes. 
On the plus side, they make good power for their weight, are satisfyingly accurate (or more) and most triggers are excellent.  Even the T05 can be very nice, and that's the one I consider to be the least desireable.  The barrel droop issue is somewhat offset by the performance of the scope rail - no chance to squeeze your comp tube out of round.  And of course, droop can be dealt with.

The Weihrauchs of course have no trigger issues, although the Diana T06 triggers equal them in my book.  Mine are all satisfyingly accurate (or more), so I see no advantage there.  The relative weights of different rifles seems to be a wash too, as are general performance levels until you get to the Magnums.  But the feel of quality for the Weihrauchs seems to be a solid step over the Diana's.  And no disappointing plastic bits to spoil things either.  I do wish the safeties were resettable.

The HW95s and 97s seem to be real standouts to me, but I have been lucky enough to shoot many Weihrauchs, and they all "do it" for me. 

I have developed a preference for one maker.
For me it's Weihrauch by a nose, after a hard race.

For me, both are better than good, and my preferences are dependant on the specific airgun, and even on how I feel that day.

For example, shooting a Diana 54 Air King is A LOT different than shooting a Weihrauch 95 or a Beeman R10. I have two Xisico XS-25 SFB air rifles, which are Chinese clones of the RWS 34 and are much easier to handle than the Diana 54 (or 48 or 52).

The same situation holds true for air pistols.

I've had to give up trying to decide which is better. Most brands have airguns that I like a lot, and other models that I'm just not interested in.

-W

[avator]

...how many of us are torn between Diana and Weihrauch?

I ask because I find myself increasingly leaning towards one over the other, and I don't know if it's just a subjective preference or if more exposure to both (I've bought one of each recently, neither purchase planned) has just shown me which manufacturer is "better".  To be sure, I really like both. 

I'm wondering if anyone out there has gone from being "a Diana guy" to Weihrauch, or from Weihrauch to Diana over time.  And if so, why?  Because if you have worked on many of both, and were influenced by what you found internally, I'd surely like to know that.


I'm just a driver, not a mechanic so, speaking for myself:

From the little D27 to the much bigger Diana's, I can appreciate the intention behind all of them and the good work that went into them. Especially the older ones like my D45. 
Great stuff and at good prices, although there are a few product compromises that I wish Diana had never made.  The plastic D460 sight design for example.  Or the plastic end caps on the compression tubes. 
On the plus side, they make good power for their weight, are satisfyingly accurate (or more) and most triggers are excellent.  Even the T05 can be very nice, and that's the one I consider to be the least desireable.  The barrel droop issue is somewhat offset by the performance of the scope rail - no chance to squeeze your comp tube out of round.  And of course, droop can be dealt with.

The Weihrauchs of course have no trigger issues, although the Diana T06 triggers equal them in my book.  Mine are all satisfyingly accurate (or more), so I see no advantage there.  The relative weights of different rifles seems to be a wash too, as are general performance levels until you get to the Magnums.  But the feel of quality for the Weihrauchs seems to be a solid step over the Diana's.  And no disappointing plastic bits to spoil things either.  I do wish the safeties were resettable.

The HW95s and 97s seem to be real standouts to me, but I have been lucky enough to shoot many Weihrauchs, and they all "do it" for me. 

I have developed a preference for one maker.
For me it's Weihrauch by a nose, after a hard race.

For me, both are better than good, and my preferences are dependant on the specific airgun, and even on how I feel that day.

For example, shooting a Diana 54 Air King is A LOT different than shooting a Weihrauch 95 or a Beeman R10. I have two Xisico XS-25 SFB air rifles, which are Chinese clones of the RWS 34 and are much easier to handle than the Diana 54 (or 48 or 52).

The same situation holds true for air pistols.

I've had to give up trying to decide which is better. Most brands have airguns that I like a lot, and other models that I'm just not interested in.

-W

You got that right. Often times quality is on a gun to gun basis as opposed to brand to brand.

[HectorMedina]

We all love German "Sproingers". True.
But we need to admit that we are a very small and select group of people. Like archery with English Longbows or Steppe Recurves (Traditional archery), it is not for everyone. You need a special frame of mind (some would say masochistic streak) to really enjoy sproingers.

Will they die off? Nope, just like English Longbows and Steppe recurves. The good ones will come up in price as the market gets smaller, more  selective and better educated. We are just beginning to see the seeds of the "thousand's of dollars handmade spring-gun", and  that trend will continue.

The market for toys will always be there, but the power will be lower, the quality non-existent as will be the accuracy.

And, perhaps that will be the "re-birth" of the spring gun.

UMAREX would have kept the LGU and the LGV alive if they had been able to get their target price of $800 for each. FWB the same. The gun that COULD have saved the Walther Sport line (the Century Varmint), came along too late and with too little units to really make a difference. BTW, the Century Varmint is mechanically different from the Century.

HW has increased their prices, AA has increased their prices, DIANA simplified the manufacturing with the EMS system and so the prices are pretty stable. But core inflation, worldwide, has just begun to subside, which means that there is a "stress" built into the economic tectonics that will need to be released at some point in the future, and the way to release that is with an economic quake.
Just facts of life.

In the same way that some like blondes and some like brunettes, we all have different physiques, minds, needs and wants.

For specific purposes, certain models are very well suited. But another shooter may never need to perform that specific duty and so, that other shooter will like more one model over another.

As a gunsmith, I can make the DIANAS perform to the lower power levels and accuracy levels of HW's or AA's, with more ease than I can make HW's or AA"s perform to the power level and corresponding accuracy levels of a DIANA.

Calibers also matter. Walther, HW, AA are basically 0.177" designed guns for the European Market. DIANA mostly bases their designs on the 0.22" for the World market.

"We the People" of the USA are privileged in the sense that we have the opportunity to shoot all forms of the sport.  From Plinking/Pesting to FT to Long Range, we do not have any limitations (yet). Other places are not so fortunate, either by law or by weather, limitations are imposed on the shooter.

Bugatti vs. McLaren vs. Lotus.... different strokes for different folks.

Thanks for all the candid opinions here, they are very valuable.

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

[Kragman1]

We are getting some thoughtful and thought provoking responses to this thread.  👍

[aaronc]

I'm not the tuner or the "expert" most of you guys are...but I thoroughly enjoy my plinking and hunting/pesting with my German Air Rifles. I don't post much but spend a lot of time reading here and on other airgun forums. I started with a secondhand Diana 46...I actually prefer fixed barrels and love the side-cockers. I also have a 95 and recently picked up a like new 90 on a great deal. Even though I'm just a plinker and have other interest that takes up my time when I purchase I want quality. What I see in general is imo what we see in many areas of the world....the companies are cheaping out. If they have to do so to stay in business then I understand..it's better than not having them.

 Most of my guns are meduim to higher power and I was in the market to purchase an HW50,..possibly HW30. I've read many great things about both. I've held off on that purchase due to the chance of having to bend a barrel first thing out of the box...I'm not a fan of the new stocks...or the bill-board's on them either....for my $$ HW has quite a few quality issues at the moment. I may would consider an 80 or 97...or another 48 in .177  or 460... but that wasn't really what I was after next. I loved the original Air King and own one in .22.....I wish it was still made. Also I wish the 52 was still in production. I would pay more to get the nicer gun...I have no complaints with my 48..but simply wish the nicer stuff was still being made if only in limited quantities. Given everything I read and have seen over the last several years I think the hay-day is over. I haven't done it yet but been thinking that for anything I really want I would just post up a wanted add for a nice used rifle when I was ready to purchase and be patient.   

...and to the OP's original question...I like both brands and hope they both continue to be made. I've never had any problem with my Diana's. Of the ones I have the 46 and 48 get shot the most. As of late I would say I'm more disappointed in the HW's with the slide in quality I've seen posted by other shooters.

[Yogi]

We are getting some thoughtful and thought provoking responses to this thread.  👍

None more than Hector's.  Most of the other were just blowing smoke...

-Y

[tjk]

Just my two cents, I like both Diana and Weihrauch brands. I do have brand model preferences, but comparing the brands themselves seems a moot point. Ex. I think the Diana 34 is the best model of the line up. The side levers don’t thrill me much and the 460 is a 350 underlever that is too strong for my taste. In the same light, the HW35 is a fav for me just as the 95 is ok but not the first springer I go to either. I will say that the weihrauch line up is far superior to Diana’s in model and style selection. 

[Kragman1]

I have to disagree with you Yogi, to some degree.

I think that Hectors response is very.on point, and it prompted me to leave my previous comment.

But I appreciate all the input, because it all helps to tell the story. Speaking for myself, I REALLY like my Diana's, but my best rifle is probably the 35e that John in PA tuned, or maybe my 77k.  That doesn't mean that the HW's are automatically "better", but right now they are what I'm enjoying most.

I haven't had any problems with any of my HWs (luck?) Or my Diana's (luck?) but some of the cost savings which Diana has adopted get under my skin.
Using a single set screw to hold the entire (plastic!) front sight/lever retention unit in place on the barrel of my T06 460 is a joke.  It does not do the job, and no one at M&G should have expected it to.
But it's also an outlier, and I DO appreciate the approach Diana has taken in their product development and and to hokd their prices in a reasonable place.  Good example of how everything in life is a tradeoff.

Again, I am a sample size of one.


ps - I have had problems with my particular 460, but that rifle was a Pyramyd-sold refurb that was never actually refurbed.  It showed up at my door not shooting anywhere near spec due to having 3 or 4 crushed pellets mashed in the workings, and blown seals.
I don't fault the rifle for being first abused by the  previous owner, then neglected by whoever "refurbed" it.  I kept it because I'd like to own a good 460 and I'm willing to deal with the problems.  Someday down the road, it will be a sweet rifle.  But it will also need fat pellets because lesser pellets drop out of the breech.
That and the front sight unit have really taken away from my appreciation of that model, which is a shame.

 

[aaronc]

,...........I'm not sure who's blowing smoke?    OP asked a question on a forum and several people took the time to give their opinion and reply. Carry on gentlemen.

[avator]

Guys, lets try to lighten up on the personal attacks. We're all here for the same reasons.

[SpiralGroove]

Guys, lets try to lighten up on the personal attacks. We're all here for the same reasons. 

Hey Avator,
I don't think anyone is trying to make personal attacks .

Kragman just misinterpreted what Yogi said about Hector.  Yogi was simply saying the only one giving good input WAS in fact Hector.
Now .... anyone who follows the German forum knows Yogi has a penchant for exaggeration or blowing smoke himself - it's his thing ............    .

Lastly, if I was Younger () and Hunted, I would most likely be buying a Diana 350 or Diana 460.  Both excellent guns with hunting power ..... and did I mention inexpensive vs. the market. 

 

[Robert 5mm]

I sold my three Diana's two .22 - M48 & 460 and one .177 K98.

I still have my HW/Beeman's R7, Hw50, R9, 2-R1 and wish I still had the P1. ( If anyone wishes to part with theirs ).

The Diana's were all very nice and strong shooters, I just decided to clear out the inventory and sold the three here on GTA.

Lastly, if I was Younger () and Hunted, I would most likely be buying a Diana 350 or Diana 460.  Both excellent guns with hunting power ..... and did I mention inexpensive vs. the market.

I do wish I would have kept the Diana 460 - one good gun to shoot .22

[Kragman1]

Avatar, if your dog brings you your pellets to shoot when you get home from work, that dog should get bone. 

Maybe a statue! 

👍

[cjtamu]

Been following and thinking about this for days. I own both brands, love the rifles I have. Whats been said previously is very true. There aren’t many models between the two brands that compare apples to apples. Which gun I select depends on what I’m doing. Standing off hand I’m going HW95 or 35E. Although the new to me Diana 45 is awfully nice. Springer bench rest shootout for my life? Diana 56 TH. Have been lucky with the quality of the four 2021-2022 HW we have as well as the 2018 HW35E. What frustrates me, and something Hector mentioned, is that quality has slipped across the board with just about everyone. Economics, newer untrained workforce, supply issues, host of reasons. I’m not sure it’s accurate to say there are more quality issues with HW than Diana. Quick search will reveal people happy with both and complaining about both. Far more aggravating with HW because you’re paying premium prices. I simply quit buying new guns about a year ago. When I compare my MK1 HW77 to my 2022 HW97K long I just shake my head. Wish they still built them that way. If you’re going to replace piston seal, spring, and guide anyway, why not get the benefit of the workmanship they employed 30-50 years or more ago? Thats where I finally ended up. My Diana’s range from 1968 to 2011-2012 I think for the 56 TH? All are excellent. Can’t speak for the newer rifles because I don’t own any. And that’s unlikely to change anytime soon. Just my .02.