Hatsan Mod125 Spring Camo Combo New from HatsanUSA

[mikeyb]

I stumbled across a closeout Mod125 deal for $110 on the HatsanUSA website and got LUCKY guessing a free shipping code. I tried using same code on another deal rifle but the code was deactivated shortly after I placed my Mod125 order. Doh!

I documented the rifle project here.

https://michaeljbernard.wordpress.com/2023/11/12/2023_11_09_hatsan_mod125-177/

Hopefully the post may help fellow airgun enthusiasts who enjoy shooting and working on bargain springers.

:-)

[Ronno6]

Care to share the free shipping coupon code?

[mikeyb]

I finally learned the best way to get images embedded within text the way I want using bbcode so here is a version of my Wordpress post. Hopefully my Wordpress posts won't go away like various photo storage sites, but just in case this is all contained on the GTA site so it should survive as long as the GTA does :-)

I am a big fan of Hatsan spring-piston break-barrel air rifles. IMO they are NOT top quality but are appropriately priced "bargain" air rifles. Sometimes there is sloppy factory assembly, occasionally some broken parts, and in general mediocre quality control. Yet I'm STILL a Hatsan FAN

I don't recommend anyone NEW to air rifles start with a Hatsan, but for anyone WANTING a bargain air rifle that responds VERY WELL to a little home repair/tuning effort these rifles are ideal.

I've had a couple of their MAGNUM SPRINGERS in 177 caliber for a few years. Mod125, Mod135, and Torpedo155 are all nice rifles NOW after a little work. The 177 is NOT a good caliber for these rifles. The potential Muzzle Energy in the LARGER calibers is up to 34 fpe but I've never been able to get any of these rifles above ~27 fpe ME in the 177 caliber. I believe the large powerplant just cannot BREATHE fully with the small bore/pellets. I had promised myself that I would NOT buy another one of these MAGNUM springers in 177 caliber.

For several reasons I BROKE that promise a couple weeks ago when Hatsan had a CLOSEOUT sale on NEW Mod125-Spring-Camo-Combos (scope & mounts included) for $110 with a free shipping coupon. One reason was to SEE if there were any design changes. Another reason was because at that price it was worth getting one "just for the parts"! Third and final reason was I simply wanted another "project" rifle to satisfy my AG addiction

NONE of my Magnums has a scope mounted and I don't think the included scope would survive for long with the large recoils this rifle produces. Scope and mounts will be saved for some OTHER rifle that won't shake it to death.

I received the rifle on 11/09/2023. Brand NEW box, shipped straight from Hatsan USA, in absolutely the BEST condition I've ever received a Hatsan rifle. All the (weak) styrofoam blocks were INTACT! That is a big first time for me because all previous rifles arrived with the styrofoam blocks pulverized into small beads. This rifle was also still sealed in a poly bag. FACTORY FRESH  was my first thought, but I was only half right !

There were some recent questions/complaints on the GTA forum about NEWER Hatsan springers arriving with modified transfer ports.

2023/09/26
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=210458.msg156478811#msg156478811

2023/09/30
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=210536.msg156479657#msg156479657

2023/10/12
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=210711.msg156482010#msg156482010

2023/10/21
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=210860.msg156483692#msg156483692


In general this modified transfer port seems like it could be useful for anyone interested in experimenting with different transfer port sizes. Making a series of threaded inserts would allow such testing.

I'm comfortable with the old style Hatsan transfer port dimensions and have no current desire to perform TP experiments. I'm fairly certain the simple (drilled, not threaded with an insert) 4mm dia x 11mm long transfer port on my other Mod125 rifles is a "best compromise" for that powerplant in all the calibers offered (177, 22, 25).

NOT MY rifle… this transfer port with the threaded insert doesn't look too badly damaged to me but the damaged hole for the lockup-wedge looks pretty horrible.

2023/10/13
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=210458.msg156482223#msg156482223
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=210458.msg156482222#msg156482222

I suspect that the rifle in these 2  posts may be a "customer HACK return" that didn't properly go back through the Hatsan refurb process?

The only issue out-of-the-box for my rifle was the date of manufacture. If I'm interpreting correctly the numbers 0514 most likely mean the rifle was made in May 2014. So I got a brand new OLD STOCK rifle. That scraps my hope to examine a recently made Hatsan with the modified transfer port.

I can confirm that this rifle has the simple transfer port hole 4mm dia x 11mm long.

First step for me is cleaning the bore. One wet patch came out very clean followed by 2 dry patches to clear out the solvent (I use WD40). Checked tightness of the SAS bolt and stock screw… all good.

I KNOW this rifle can send pellets with a very LOUD BULLWHIP SUPERSONIC CRACK so the first 10 pellets went point blank (~1") into a deep cardboard trap. No data. That dieseled out some factory lube and the short distance prevented the LOUD supersonic crack from forming which saved my hearing. LOTS of SMOKE and acrid burning odor as expected from the factory "rust prevention" lubrication.

Next 10 pellets were right over the chronograph for a Muzzle Velocity baseline. The 7.9 grain CPHP averaged 1220 fps MV (~26fpe ME). Still LOUD and smoking but I can tell the dieseling is slowly fading. During those shots the rifle was held at arms length but I could sense a REALLY HARSH shot cycle with TONS of spring "twang" (spring vibrations) lingering after each shot.

I dropped back to 30' and began a baseline accuracy test. I chose to use some of my older Winchester HP pellets from the yellow-print tins. These are the no-longer-available 9.7 grain pellets.


Image of Chronograph results (@30') and group size...


Rifle was still smoking and shot cycle was HARSH. With the rifle properly shouldered I was surprised at how well the hollow stock amplified the shot noise and spring vibrations right into my cheek & ear! Yikes!

That's ENOUGH! Time to go inside and make this rifle shoot to its FULL POTENTIAL.

Removed stock and strapped the action with barrel onto my spring compressor.

Images of disassembly...




Removed endcap stud and anti-beartrap-link. Used short dummy pin to replace main latch pin in the Quattro trigger group. Disconnected the safety lever link and pushed out two front endcap cross-pins. This allows the Quattro trigger group assembly to be gently pried out INTACT. No need to disassemble the Quattro trigger group.

With a little force from the spring compressor the single remaining cross-pin holding everything together was easily pushed out. Relaxing the spring pressure showed the preload on this giant spring is 3"!


Cleaned out the factory grease (& swarf), deburred comp tube, relubed (sparse application of my favorite moly and marine grease), and installed NEW CUSTOM spring guide.

Image of spring, old guide, new guide, and endcap...


For reference THIS rifle contained a coil spring that has 44 active coils, 0.840" OD, and 0.142" wire. I have previously measured these springs with 42 active coils. I can't confirm if this is an actual change or my previous coil counts were in error. Transfer port is confirmed to be simple drill hole 4mm dia x 11mm length. Piston seal is the "hard white polymer" version as expected and was surprisingly NOT damaged during factory assembly. I kept that seal in place. No need to change it.

I reassembled the action and went to work on that hollow stock TWANG AMPLIFIER. I removed the rubber butt pad (2 screws) and then the stock endcap (2 more screws). Filled the hollow cavity with heavy weight poly beads (blanket weights) and added a poly-foam plug carved from Pyramid pellet packing. Reassembled the stock. MUCH BETTER! Stock now feels SOLID.

Fired a couple shots point-blank into a cardboard trap to clear (burn-off) any of my new lube that got in front of the piston seal. Surprisingly NO more smoke! Dropped back to 30' for some more testing. Right away the shot cycle was MUCH IMPROVED. Still has significant recoil but the shot cycle is now a single large THUMP! No more spring vibrations felt or HEARD from the stock to my ear.


Image of chronograph results (@30') and group size...


The 2 lower-left shots were during sight-in adjustment of the open sights. The remaining 8 shots went into a nice group. The rifle did loose some velocity/energy when shooting the Winchester HP 9.7 grain pellets. Some loss due to LESS dieseling certainly. Also some loss due to new longer snug fitting spring guide. However, I can now actually ENJOY shooting this rifle without wincing in anticipation of a painful and loud shot.

Image of chronograph data tabulated ...


There is something odd going on with this rifle using the OLD heavier Winchester HP 9.7 grain pellets. The pellet energy at 30' seems too low. The NEW lighter Winchester 7.8 grain Round Nose pellets have the muzzle velocity and energy I expected from this rifle. Maybe this rifle simply does not LIKE the Winchester HP 9.7 grain pellets? I'll need to run some more chronograph tests. Will update results when I can get data on some other pellets.

FWIW the Quattro trigger came with screws fully seated. I have NOT made any changes to the trigger yet. It is actually pretty-darn-good-as-is and I may choose to NOT make any trigger adjustments.

Note:  There is a microfine crack just starting to form through one of the SAS holes in the plastic stock. I've heard several complaints about this on the CAMO stocks but have never seen it on any of my plain black stocks. IMO Hatsan has not considered the added thickness of the CAMO layer and how it may affect the SAS bolt/washer fit. I think the SAS bolt/washer fit is TOO TIGHT with the CAMO layer added and the increased stress on the stock holes has created a fracture forming through those holes. IF I'm right that might explain why I read more complaints about broken CAMO stocks.

Since my rifle is NEW I will contact Hatsan about possibly sending me another stock under warranty. I'd accept another CAMO stock but I'd drill out the interference layer (like I did on this stock) before assembly. A plain black stock would be acceptable as well since I don't really need CAMO stocks on my air rifles.

mjb

[Toxylon]

Mikey is the Hatsan guy, no two questions about it.

FWIW, I don't think the new type of serial numbering in Hatsan springers denotes the manufacturing date, at least in a decipherable way. The new serial numbers I've seen in guns bought this year or in 2022 don't make any sense, date-wise. It's too bad, since date of manufacture is useful info.

[tripiy]

FWIW the Quattro trigger came with screws fully seated. I have NOT made any changes to the trigger yet. It is actually pretty-darn-good-as-is and I may choose to NOT make any trigger adjustments.

Hi Mike,  i got my Mod 95 few weeks back with the screw fully seated in as well. I typically do not mess with ootb settings on any of my rifle. The Mod95 is better as is from my EDGE and its working out it roughness as I shoot. However would like to know what are the implications of "fully seated screws on Quattro". Is it possibly a hair trigger or it means there is still lots of improvement possible

[H95Kidd]

FWIW the Quattro trigger came with screws fully seated. I have NOT made any changes to the trigger yet. It is actually pretty-darn-good-as-is and I may choose to NOT make any trigger adjustments.

Hi Mike,  i got my Mod 95 few weeks back with the screw fully seated in as well. I typically do not mess with ootb settings on any of my rifle. The Mod95 is better as is from my EDGE and its working out it roughness as I shoot. However would like to know what are the implications of "fully seated screws on Quattro". Is it possibly a hair trigger or it means there is still lots of improvement possible

Not wanting to step on Mikey's toes, but I think Hatsan's idea here is that the factory trigger adjustment screws are really too short for "green" owners to get themselves into serious trouble, that is, to make the trigger totally unsafe. The fact that Mikey's adjustment screws were completely bottomed out on his 125 kinda confirms this. It is possible to adjust these triggers (the Quattro) to a somewhat finer release, but requires longer screws, possibly smoothing of trigger components, and proper lube as well. And, most importantly, extreme caution while doing so. If you don't understand the inner workings of the Quattro trigger, and do not have any experience working on triggers (be they air rifles/powder burners) I would strongly recommend NOT fooling with it at all.   

[tripiy]

Joe, thanks for the information. It seems I got mostly un-adjustable trigger or one that could be made only heavier  .
I get the idea to keep things safe but then other triggers do allow it to get lighter w/o changing oem screws, just a thought.

[Yogi]

Joe, thanks for the information. It seems I got mostly un-adjustable trigger or one that could be made only heavier  .
I get the idea to keep things safe but then other triggers do allow it to get lighter w/o changing oem screws, just a thought.

Hatsan's are cheap.  When I look at your collection, your Hatsan cost 1/2 or 1/3 of your other guns.  I bet they are at least 1/2 the rifle that your big buck rifles are.
Hatsan's are the best cheap breakbarrels around.   Better than Benjamin breakbarrels, better than Chineese BeeMAN'S, better than Gammos...

-Y

[tripiy]

Hatsan's are cheap.  When I look at your collection, your Hatsan cost 1/2 or 1/3 of your other guns.  I bet they are at least 1/2 the rifle that your big buck rifles are.
Hatsan's are the best cheap breakbarrels around.   Better than Benjamin breakbarrels, better than Chineese BeeMAN'S, better than Gammos...

-Y

You are right Yogi, bit spoilt by T-06 triggers but my Hatsan Edge helps keep things in perspective. As far as the guns go Hatsan are every bit fun as the Dianas I own. In fact I have to admit over period of time the cocking and firing of my Edge has been smoother then others.
Just wondering why limit the already capable and advertised Match trigger.

[Ronno6]

The Welsh Willy trigger does wonders for the Edge and Striker Hatsans, akin to what the CDT triggers do for other rifles.
But, most people can't justify spending the $$$ on lower end rifles.

[mikeyb]

FWIW the Quattro trigger came with screws fully seated. I have NOT made any changes to the trigger yet. It is actually pretty-darn-good-as-is and I may choose to NOT make any trigger adjustments.

Hi Mike,  i got my Mod 95 few weeks back with the screw fully seated in as well. I typically do not mess with ootb settings on any of my rifle. The Mod95 is better as is from my EDGE and its working out it roughness as I shoot. However would like to know what are the implications of "fully seated screws on Quattro". Is it possibly a hair trigger or it means there is still lots of improvement possible

Not wanting to step on Mikey's toes (not a problem = all input welcome :-), but I think Hatsan's idea here is that the factory trigger adjustment screws are really too short for "green" owners to get themselves into serious trouble, that is, to make the trigger totally unsafe. The fact that Mikey's adjustment screws were completely bottomed out on his 125 kinda confirms this. It is possible to adjust these triggers (the Quattro) to a somewhat finer release, but requires longer screws, possibly smoothing of trigger components, and proper lube as well. And, most importantly, extreme caution while doing so. If you don't understand the inner workings of the Quattro trigger, and do not have any experience working on triggers (be they air rifles/powder burners) I would strongly recommend NOT fooling with it at all.

I was crafting a longer response but it was mostly just a repeat of what Joe posted. Well said/written :-)

Some Quattro triggers need slightly longer adjustment screws OR carefully file the trigger blade under the screw heads to allow them to sit ~0.5-1mm deeper.  Since other members have reported broken trigger blades (weak pot metal castings)so  I don't recommend the filing method even though it has worked well for me.

These triggers have manufacturing tolerances so some can be "nice" with the factory screws while others will need more work. My preferred trigger is a light first stage to a well defined second stage wall, followed by a short crisp 2-3 lb snap to fire. I've been able to get ALL my Striker/Edge and Quattro trigger groups to fall in that range.

[ER00z]

Awesome work with your 125. Those closeouts sold out quick. Currently I have one 125 (Sniper, spring .22) which is much smoother than the 125th .25 referb I had years ago. Wish I knew about spring guides and tuning then, it was a very strong shooter. The "push" these guns produce into one's shoulder before the piston reaches the end of compression chamber is always surprising to me. Happens quick, but not something expected from an airgun. Tinkering with Hatsan's is fun/educational, but I prefer working with the smaller Alpha's, Lol. If you ever get bored I highly recommend tuning an Alpha, you'd be surprised of how nice they can turn out. (kind of a super budget, lower powered R7-ish plinker)


I'm curious if the spring in your particular gun, having 44 active coils was left over or mixed up from a model 135 or 150 assembly? Also, did you make the new spring guide or purchase? Anyways that gun still has power to spare, if you find a 10.5gr pellet it likes you might have yourself an affordable long range 177 springer.

[mikeyb]

Awesome work with your 125. Those closeouts sold out quick. Currently I have one 125 (Sniper, spring .22) which is much smoother than the 125th .25 referb I had years ago. Wish I knew about spring guides and tuning then, it was a very strong shooter. The "push" these guns produce into one's shoulder before the piston reaches the end of compression chamber is always surprising to me. Happens quick, but not something expected from an airgun. Tinkering with Hatsan's is fun/educational, but I prefer working with the smaller Alpha's, Lol. If you ever get bored I highly recommend tuning an Alpha, you'd be surprised of how nice they can turn out. (kind of a super budget, lower powered R7-ish plinker)

I'm curious if the spring in your particular gun, having 44 active coils was left over or mixed up from a model 135 or 150 assembly? Also, did you make the new spring guide or purchase? Anyways that gun still has power to spare, if you find a 10.5gr pellet it likes you might have yourself an affordable long range 177 springer.

I have several "old" Alphas the look like a mini-Striker. They are super-fun and accurate shooters right out of the box. Very easy to cock with a very gentle recoil. Something one would expect fron a 500fps 6fpe springer. I have not needed to work on any of the internals but I did open one up to inspect/adjust the trigger. The "new" Alpha that looks like a mini-Airtact shoots closer to 10 fpe according to some GTA members that own one. I don't have one to test myself.

Regarding factory Hatsan springs...

This Mod125-177 spring has 44 active coils.


This Mod125-25 spring has same dimensions and 44 active coils.


My confusion on coil count is likely over Hatsan springs verses Vortek springs. The Vortek has max 44 coils "open end" which becomes 42 active coils when the end coils are collapsed, ground, and polished.

I'm fairly certain the factory "Hatsan" coil spring for all Mod125, Mod135, and Torpedo 15x series rifles are all the same as pictured above.
The reason the Mod135 rifles "may" make more ME and can shoot 30 cal pellets is the larger piston diameter (swept volume) and piston mass.

I don't show the details but try to describe how I make my Mod125/135 spring guides here.

https://michaeljbernard.wordpress.com/2020/02/24/2020_02_23_hatsan_mod125_spring_25_refurb/

I have a Mod125-Sniper-177 and a Mod135-177. Tried both with several different weight pellets including some (now discontinued) heavy H&N Sniper-Magnum 15 grain pellets. I was unable to get them above 27 fpe with any pellet. It is "my opinion" that these large powerplants cannot breathe properly with the small bore and 27 fpe is the maximum for the 177 bore.

I KNOW the powerplants can do better as I've reached 33fpe with the larger calibers. While I can't get above 27fpe it doesn't mean no one can. I'm open to new data which contradict my results.

[ER00z]

Thanks for posting that link, the description on building your spring guide is straight foreword and seems easy enough to replicate. For springer 177's I have no idea what the upper limits are, though I do have a couple hatsan 135's and 150 in the tiny caliber. Usually I figure anything over 19ftlbs as having power to spare (being too powerful), not meaning there's more on tap for a given platform, just to clarify Didn't want you or anyone else to think I'm asking why these 177 hatsans aren't making a gazillion fpe, Lol.

Anyways, great job with the new 125 and hope you have fun with it.