S&W 78g and 79g Production Dates by SN

[78gCollector]

I caught the Smith 78/79g bug over a year ago when I found my father's old pistol and successfully resealed it.  I was curious about the history of the line and details about the various changes in production and packaging, but it seemed like all sources have exactly the same, somewhat limited info.  So, for the past year I have been working on a database that includes the serial numbers of Smith and Wesson 78g and 79g pistols that I have been able to find online.  (I've also been keeping track of Daisy 780, 790, and 41 lot numbers.)  By tracking the serial numbers and noting changes to the pistols, packaging, and accessories, I was able to see interesting trends that took place during the span between 1971 and 1984. 

My eventual goal is to get all this info into a website that will feature lots of details and pics of the pieces from my collection.  Tonight I am working on estimated ranges of serial numbers that were produced during the Smith run from 1971-1978.  Unlike Daisy and Crosman pistols that have lot numbers that indicate moth and date of production, Smith started at 0 and went up mostly sequentially throughout the run.  Serial numbers prior to 141,000 have a Q prefix and those after have a G.  Numbers are fairly continuous up to just over 175,000 but then there are several jumps, first to 200,000 and then on up to around 287,000.

The following estimates are based on assumptions in production being relatively consistent from year to year.  I have two pistols in my collection with exact dates of purchase and another with dated paperwork narrowing down possible production dates to a particular year.  All three of these pistols fit into the ranges below, so I know they are relatively accurate.  If anyone out there has a pistol with a known date of purchase (receipt, warranty card, writing on box, etc.) would you mind seeing if that date makes sense given production during the following years?

1971: 0-11,000
1972: 11,000-27,000
1973: 27,000 - 43,000
1974: 43,000 - 73,000
1975: 73,000 - 103,000
1976: 103,000 - 133,000
1977: 133,000 - 163,000
1978: 163,000-175,000,  200,000-205,000,  287,000-300,000

Notes:
1.  In 1971 only 78gs were produced.  The first 79gs were post 11,000.
2.  In 1973 production moved, and the adjustable trigger was dropped at around 43,000.  This was used to determine the rates for 1972 and 1973.
3.  The bulk of production occurred from 1974 until 1978, and if consistent, resulted in about 30k per year.

[bantam5s]

Mine 79g is number 6297288, and the receipt taped to the box indicates it was sold on Nov.30 1982
It has the blue box with blue foam inside,  but the box is a much darker less vibrant color.

I have always believed it to be a very late '78 production example based on the SN and the '82 sale date

[78gCollector]

Mine 79g is number 6297288, and the receipt taped to the box indicates it was sold on Nov.30 1982
It has the blue box with blue foam inside,  but the box is a much darker less vibrant color.

I have always believed it to be a very late '78 production example based on the SN and the '82 sale date

That should actually be G297288.  The SNs on the later pistols are far less crisp than the early ones, so the G doesn't always look like a G.  It would seem based on this SN that yours was part of that last batch from 287k-300k that S&W produced in '78.  These did have the darker box and came with a "starter kit" of pellets and 2 CO2 cartridges in a two-compartment ziplock bag.

[bantam5s]

Mine 79g is number 6297288, and the receipt taped to the box indicates it was sold on Nov.30 1982
It has the blue box with blue foam inside,  but the box is a much darker less vibrant color.

I have always believed it to be a very late '78 production example based on the SN and the '82 sale date

That should actually be G297288.  The SNs on the later pistols are far less crisp than the early ones, so the G doesn't always look like a G.  It would seem based on this SN that yours was part of that last batch from 287k-300k that S&W produced in '78.  These did have the darker box and came with a "starter kit" of pellets and 2 CO2 cartridges in a two-compartment ziplock bag.

Yes that's right it's G297288,I looked at the picture I have on my phone instead of getting up and looking at the gun itself.

[bantam5s]

The image hosting site I use was temporarily down, but it's back up so here's some pictures.
I'm guessing this was sold by a sporting goods store that primarily sold firearms and only had this because it's a S&W product,  the way they stamped dates and wrote the serial number all over everything screams FFL and AFT records / procedure.






Here's a number found on the bottom of the box.

[78gCollector]

My father bought his 78g at a local gun shop in February, 1976, and had to go through the same Massachusetts registration process as if he bought an actual pistol.  He wanted to buy the 78g and a .22 LR pistol, but the FFL wouldn't sell him both in one day.  I still have the registration slips that were completed a day apart!

The foam in your pistol's box is cut out in the shape and size of a CO2 cartridge box, and many times people place a box in there when these are sold.  Up to around SN 97000, the pistols did come with 5 carts and a tin of pellets.  After 97000 the box mentions that a starter kit is included, and the cutout for a pellet tin was eliminated.  That foam cutout is also the right size for the starter kit packaging which included 2 carts and a batch of pellets.  These don't show up very often.  (Once I hit my post count, I'll throw up some pics of a starter kit!)

[bantam5s]

My father bought his 78g at a local gun shop in February, 1976, and had to go through the same Massachusetts registration process as if he bought an actual pistol.  He wanted to buy the 78g and a .22 LR pistol, but the FFL wouldn't sell him both in one day.  I still have the registration slips that were completed a day apart!

The foam in your pistol's box is cut out in the shape and size of a CO2 cartridge box, and many times people place a box in there when these are sold.  Up to around SN 97000, the pistols did come with 5 carts and a tin of pellets.  After 97000 the box mentions that a starter kit is included, and the cutout for a pellet tin was eliminated.  That foam cutout is also the right size for the starter kit packaging which included 2 carts and a batch of pellets.  These don't show up very often.  (Once I hit my post count, I'll throw up some pics of a starter kit!)

That's just insane to require that for an airgun.
I'd expect it to sell like any general merchandise from a pair of boots a pocket knife or a fishing rod, but then I don't know Massachusetts law.

[78gCollector]

That's just insane to require that for an airgun.
I'd expect it to sell like any general merchandise from a pair of boots a pocket knife or a fishing rod, but then I don't know Massachusetts law.

Agreed!  In '76 I was far from being old enough to buy my own bb/pellet guns, but I think at the time MA had different rules for rifles and pistols.  It also could have been a matter of the gun shop where my father bought the pistol erring on the side of caution.  Luckily, though, I have the small paper used for registration to provide me with the exact date he purchased it.  This was one of the data points I used to validate the production dates I came up with.

[78gCollector]

The image hosting site I use was temporarily down, but it's back up so here's some pictures.
I'm guessing this was sold by a sporting goods store that primarily sold firearms and only had this because it's a S&W product,  the way they stamped dates and wrote the serial number all over everything screams FFL and AFT records / procedure.

By the way, sometimes paperwork is hidden in 78g/79g boxes.  Under the blue foam in factory boxes there is a cardboard flap that can be lifted.  There's a small half rounded tab at the rear of the box that is barely visible.  Lifting on this reveals a compartment between the flap under the cardboard and the bottom of the box.  It's the perfect place to find paperwork stored such as Owner's Maunal, warranty card, pink barrel wrap, and store receipt.

[bantam5s]

I looked when I got the gun, and sadly didn't find anything.
I'm lucky that the sales slip was taped to the outside of the box at least.

[JayDee24ca]

I don't have a sales tag to date my 78G, but according to your table, G078262 places it as a 1975 production date.

[78gCollector]

I don't have a sales tag to date my 78G, but according to your table, G078262 places it as a 1975 production date.

Pistols in this range usually feature a parts diagram dated 5/74, and my father's pistol purchased in 2/76 is SN 89754, so 1975 production makes sense.  At this time pistols were coming with the blue warranty card.  The yellow ones started showing up a little later in production, right around the time the "Owner's Manual" switched names to "Instruction Manual".  It's not uncommon to find extra or incorrect paperwork in these boxes!  (I always like finding extra!)

[78gCollector]

BTW, the parts diagram is in the Owner's Manual.  The parts list in the manual doesn't have prices in this range, and instead uses a separate sheet with prices effective Feb 1, 1974.

I have one similar to 78262.  SN 72507 was bought at "Leslie's Bargain Land" on 7/21/77 for $35.95.  It sold 17 months later than my fathers that was manufactured after it!  It seems like these may have sat on the shelves for a while, so there can be years between manufacture and purchase!

[bantam5s]

BTW, the parts diagram is in the Owner's Manual.  The parts list in the manual doesn't have prices in this range, and instead uses a separate sheet with prices effective Feb 1, 1974.

I have one similar to 78262.  SN 72507 was bought at "Leslie's Bargain Land" on 7/21/77 for $35.95.  It sold 17 months later than my fathers that was manufactured after it!  It seems like these may have sat on the shelves for a while, so there can be years between manufacture and purchase!

Definitely,  mine obviously sold a few years after it was made.

[78gCollector]

Definitely,  mine obviously sold a few years after it was made.

I've got to think price played a role in this.  These pistols cost quite a bit more than other typical Daisy and Crosmans sitting on the shelves at the time.  For the price of a 78g, you could buy two Daisy 1200s or two Crosman 454s!  Holding both in your hand and shooting them is night and day of course, but I bet they were a harder sell due to the price.

[bantam5s]

Or the marketing,  if they were generally intended to pair with the model 42 I imagine that s lot of people probably didn't need an expensive air pistol to go with their .22lr.

[Swissairgun]

Nice post and good work. I also collected some 78/79G serial numbers the past year or so. Happy to share them with you if you want - just drop me a PM.

My records have a couple of 79G pistols under 11k, one at 4k and one at 10k.

For production numbers per year, I am inclined to believe that numbers would be skewed and not consistent, meaning that numbers tailed off as years went by. I've see this too with Slavia air rifles.

My own 79G is Q120097, which your range would date to 1976. There's a date of July 1978 handwritten next to the stamp of the hardware store on the back of the manual, so I presume that's when it was bought. Box says it includes the starter kit and the foam has the one square-ish recess. Warranty card is blue, manual says Instruction Manual.

I think that the reason that so many of these pistols are still with their boxes and in great condition (bar the seals) is that they never saw much use once the pack of CO2 bulbs that came in the box were used up.

[IOWOLF]

I have one of those that says daisy on it.

[78gCollector]

Nice post and good work. I also collected some 78/79G serial numbers the past year or so. Happy to share them with you if you want - just drop me a PM.

My records have a couple of 79G pistols under 11k, one at 4k and one at 10k.

For production numbers per year, I am inclined to believe that numbers would be skewed and not consistent, meaning that numbers tailed off as years went by. I've see this too with Slavia air rifles.

My own 79G is Q120097, which your range would date to 1976. There's a date of July 1978 handwritten next to the stamp of the hardware store on the back of the manual, so I presume that's when it was bought. Box says it includes the starter kit and the foam has the one square-ish recess. Warranty card is blue, manual says Instruction Manual.

I think that the reason that so many of these pistols are still with their boxes and in great condition (bar the seals) is that they never saw much use once the pack of CO2 bulbs that came in the box were used up.

I'd be interested in seeing your data!  I'm up to 263 pistols in my database right now, and always looking for more.

Regarding the early 79g's, I have the following serial numbers:
0004248  (France)
0004345  (UK)
Q006563
Q008148 Sold at an old auction from 2008  No pics

The first repeatable serial numbers are 4 I have in the 11k range, which coincides with information I've seen regarding 79g production beginning after the first year of the 78g.  The first parts diagram to show .177 caliber parts have a 4/1/1972 date on them.  These appeared in the second version of the Owner's Manual.  (I've come across five variations so far between large and small differences in content!)

Those two SNs that showed up in Europe are strange, and I haven't figured them out.  All early pistols have a Q prefix, while the two 4k pistols do not.  They also have later grips, the F in pentagram, and non-adjustable triggers.  Even the serial number markings look like the later G serial number pistols that have deep text that is much more rounded than the crisp markings of the early pistols.  In all ways they look like a 150k pistol rather than a typical sub 20k.

I'm inclined to agree that there wasn't a constant 30k per year production throughout the later run, but in absence of data points, it provides a starting point!  I plan to shift numbers around as I find definite sale dates that don't coincide with the current numbers.

Regarding the paperwork with your 120k pistol, it appears someone may have swapped out some of these items on you!  All pistols that I've run across in the US as well as overseas have used the same blue and yellow warranty cards over the years.  By 120k they had switched to yellow cards with Springfield address.  (This after blue with Springfield, blue with Springfield crossed out and Tampa typed in, and finally blue with Tampa!.)

[78gCollector]

I have one of those that says daisy on it.

Smith sold the rights, machinery and extra parts to Daisy who started to sell the Powerline 780 (.22) and 790 (.177) in 1981.  (I'm up to my ears in 790s at the moment, but looking for a nice 780 or two.  If anyone has one for sale, please send me a message!)

The earliest of these pistols (Phase 1) look exactly like the 78/79g, right down to serial numbers that picked up where Smith left off.  From late in 1981 up until the end of the run , sometime in 1984, Daisy added a progressive series of modifications that resulted in pistols that looked similar to the Smith designs, but lack the Smith quality.  I have a later pistol with a Daisy "drop safe" trigger that has a pull weight of 7.5 pounds!  Coupled with a plastic bolt, this thing is not as much fun to shoot as it should be!

Daisy also made the Powerline 41 in 1983, and this was a shiny chrome version of the 790.  It's valve body is completely different, but it retains a familiar outward appearance.