R1/Hw80 full power barrel length

[shed tuner UK]

Hi Folks,

I seen lots of threads on the R1 and it's barrel length, but none that specifically answers my query.

I'm building up my .22 R1 to shoot in my "non UK" location, where there are no power limits, so it will run around 18-20 FPE - wherever it lands in this range with good accuracy and a nice shot cycle is fine by me.

I have a choice of barrels, one 16" and one 19.75"  I'd like to know if anyone has tried their R1 with both lengths, with no other changes at all, and can comment on the power and shot cycle feel between the two ? My gut is telling me the 16" should be fine, but if the 19" is much quieter, more stable in the firing clycle, or gains 20fps, that'd be good to know. Even whether the cocking effort advantage is worthwhile.

The gun won't be moderated.

I'm trying to avoid getting both barrels shipped out...

Thanks in advance,
JB

[Toxylon]

Waiting for the HW80 testers to reply, I'll bite.

The general FAC springer consensus is that around 15" of barrel is enough even for the magnums, in the 25 - 34 fpe range. They do need more barrel length than medium power guns, but not by much. The gun in question being a .22 cal also favors the shorter option.

With regards to the HW80, most people report around 20 - 30 fps increase in MV from a muzzle chop. Some have claimed the 80K's shoot slower than full-length 80's, so it's somewhat inconclusive.

The 80K is consistently considered to have improved, excellent balance and handling over the full-length version.

Cocking effort obviously increases with the loss of leverage, but the HW80 isn't a hard gun to cock.

Muzzle report increases with severe chopping, but I don't think the 80K is louder than the full-length 80, as the shorter length is still an effective length.

I have seriously considered getting a HW80, but I only look for the K version, for the improved handling with no penalty in performance.

[Bayman]

I have an R1 that I've tried several barrels between three calibers. I did run a 20 caliber K and standard barrel. I believe the K barrel was defective. Because the distributor was out of K barrels Weihrauch replaced it with a standard length 20 cal barrel. The new barrel made upto one FPE more depending on pellet. I have no conclusive evidence the power increase was from anything other than being cut better.

The gun now has a full length 22 barrel because I found the energy increase from the caliber jump makes the velocity drop between 20 & 22 minor. Maybe some day I'll put the 20 cal barrel back on. Probably not.

All that useless information aside. I like the way the gun looks and handles better with a K barrel. The longer barrel in the same caliber is easier to cock and seems tamer because it's a little quieter.

Duke summed it up well. Pick what's important to you. I'll just say if I were taking it in the woods for occasional shots at squirrels. I'd definitely want the K barrel. If I wanted to target shoot at a table in my backyard all afternoon. I'd definitely go the longer barrel.

My 2¢

[shed tuner UK]

thanks guys, a couple of comments...

Chopping a std barrel will normally yield some MV increase, because the choke is being removed, which obviously releases some energy (but in most cases with HW barrels, doesn;t degrade accuracy). I'm trying to decide between factory 19.75" and factory 16", both chocked.  But you've given me a 3rd option - chop the choke off the 19.75", get it down to around 18" unchoked, and have the best of both worlds

Also,, I have an R9 that will mostly be used for "walkabout" type shooting, hence I'm leaning towards the full length for the r1 as this is more likely to be longer range, rested use.

Thanks,
JB

[Bayman]

The Weihrauch muzzle chokes have to nix some velocity because they can be quite tight. I'd consider cutting my 22 or 20 cal barrel to 16" if I was sure they didn't loose accuracy. Mark 611 on here has several choke less and he swears they perform just as well without them. Maybe one day I'll get brave enough to cut one.

Good luck with yours.

BTW I'd pick a R9 over a R1 for a walk around rifle too.

[Frank in Fairfield]

The rifled portion of the R1 barrel is only about 9.5”….

[Robert 5mm]

The rifled portion of the R1 barrel is only about 9.5”….

Wow - so is the rest smooth bore ?

[Frank in Fairfield]

If rifling is 19.5 “ long, the pellet is slowing down.
We lived a long time with very long barrels in .22lr til someone started cutting them off.
I think Gaylord may have done the same thing with the R1.
I know a fellow here in Northern California did.

[Bayman]

The rifled portion of the R1 barrel is only about 9.5”….

All the ones I've checked are rifled the whole length. Granted the fit loosens up considerably between the breech and the muzzle chokes. It's still rifled the whole way.

[shed tuner UK]

The rifled portion of the R1 barrel is only about 9.5”….

All the ones I've checked are rifled the whole length. Granted the fit loosens up considerably between the breech and the muzzle chokes. It's still rifled the whole way.

my experience is the same.. they are all rifled all the way through...

[jccams]

The Weihrauch muzzle chokes have to nix some velocity because they can be quite tight. I'd consider cutting my 22 or 20 cal barrel to 16" if I was sure they didn't loose accuracy. Mark 611 on here has several choke less and he swears they perform just as well without them. Maybe one day I'll get brave enough to cut one.

Good luck with yours.

BTW I'd pick a R9 over a R1 for a walk around rifle too.

I bought a HW35 .22 from Mark that was chopped to 12" by The late OC. I must say it is as accurate as any of my choked Weihrauchs.

[Mark 611]

Jeff, I have shot many 5 shot 1 hole groups with that rifle @23yds, some years back I built an 80 in .22cal running an ARH spring kit offered at the time, the rifle had a Sunnen honed tube and all the bells and whistles, I had the barrel chopped to 14'' with a 3'' air stripper on the end, it shot 800fps with the H&N 14.66gn FTT's, I sold it to a member here, my current .22cal R1 has a factory 12.2'' threaded barrel with choke, I have not ran it across the CHRONY so I do  not know how fast it's shooting, it also has ARH's current spring kit offering in it, The old spring kit that shot 800fps had a 142 wire IIRC the new spring kits have a 135 wire IIRC, The new spring kit with the 12.2'' barrel with a 7.5'' can on it, I don't think shoots as fast as the other set up, and I don't think the barrel length has anything to do with the velocity, another example I will give you is, I have a Cometa Fenix 400 compact in .22cal I bought about 15yrs ago, depending on the pellet, it shoots 750 to 780fps and it has a factory barrel that's only 10.5 to 11'' in length, it has a factory moderator on it and it's about 6'' in length, this rifle shoots faster out of the box then any of my 80's or R1's ever have and it has a 25.5 or 26mm tube compared to the 30mm tube of the 80/R1, so you can kind of get an idea where barrel length's fit in to this, I hope this helps 
PS, all the 80/R1 barrels were ordinally the 19/20'' lengths shot out of the box for comparing velocities to the Cometa, I had 1 of my R1's out of the box cleand up and relubed only that aved 760fps with CPHP's.

[tjk]

Interesting thread, and I know for fact that  Mark is somewhat of the chop and choke guru here on the GTA. While I do not have any expert advice to offer with this method of barrel alteration, I will offer my experiences with different length barrels of the same model.
I own several R1’s. My first R1 I bought from Mark several years ago. I traded the stock with Lizzie because she had a lefty stock and she’s a right hand shooter. But two of my other R1’s are in .20 caliber. One is an older Santa Rosa full length barrel, and the other is a HB gold finger carbine barrel with a muzzle weight. I’ve never compared them with a chrony as both are set up differently. Besides I find chasing numbers to be tiresome, aggravating, and second guessing leading to unneeded frustration. Only time I chrony is post tune and after a short break in to ensure we are running within a reasonable velocity range, or if I feel the performance is starting to lag. Yet, after shooting them, I have never noticed one being anymore accurate than the other regardless of range. Only difference I have noticed is that the carbine is a bit louder. But I have it set up shooting a bit hotter. As of  their shooting characteristics, they are both quite similar in firing behavior and movement. I think this is due to the MW of the carbine length gun in keeping the overall balance. A chopped and choked or unchoked barrel without some form of weight may induce slightly more barrel “flip”. Again something Mark has intimate knowledge with. Personally, I like the longer barrel R1’s for the balance of the gun, and I enjoy shooting open sights.
If you decide to chop your barrel, the most important task in my eyes would be to ensure you have the best crown work performed at the muzzle. A poorly crowned muzzle will never shoot accurately no matter what. Good luck.

[Deerstalker]

My HW95L .22 specs with an ARH kit + Vortek seal shooting 17 FPE.
Rifle was received on 8/11/2020 from AoA.
Moderator weighs 4.32 oz, 122.6 g, 1892 gr.  Moderator is 6” long and female threads start 1.7” in from beveled end of Moderator.  The thread is 3/4" long & 1/2" diameter with 20 threads per inch.
Barrel length = 15.75”, 400 mm,  from end of moderator to breech block end. HW95 barrel is 16 mm diameter.  Barrel without moderator = 12.188”, (12-3/16”, 309.575 mm), from thread end to breech block end. HW95L total rifle length = 41.875”, 1063.625 mm, from end of moderator to butt center.  Rifle is 29”, 736.6 mm, from end of moderator to end of compression tube, receiver action.

Moderator/barrel pic.

[Bayman]

My HW95L .22 specs with an ARH kit + Vortek seal shooting 17 FPE.
Rifle was received on 8/11/2020 from AoA.
Moderator weighs 4.32 oz, 122.6 g, 1892 gr.  Moderator is 6” long and female threads start 1.7” in from beveled end of Moderator.  The thread is 3/4" long & 1/2" diameter with 20 threads per inch.
Barrel length = 15.75”, 400 mm,  from end of moderator to breech block end. HW95 barrel is 16 mm diameter.  Barrel without moderator = 12.188”, (12-3/16”, 309.575 mm), from thread end to breech block end. HW95L total rifle length = 41.875”, 1063.625 mm, from end of moderator to butt center.  Rifle is 29”, 736.6 mm, from end of moderator to end of compression tube, receiver action.

Moderator/barrel pic.

Is the muzzle end of the barrel choked?

[Deerstalker]

When I clean with a pull through the barrel bore seems to require the same amount of force throughout the process and of course it looks the same when I sight through.  One of the posters said that the Weihrauch barrels were "chocked" when the barrel was pinched for the front sight groves and this HW95L is scope only.  I don't believe that the barrel is chocked.

[Bayman]

When I clean with a pull through the barrel bore seems to require the same amount of force throughout the process and of course it looks the same when I sight through.  One of the posters said that the Weihrauch barrels were "chocked" when the barrel was pinched for the front sight groves and this HW95L is scope only.  I don't believe that the barrel is chocked.

Thanks. Good information. I wonder if my 98 is choked. It's sleeved and I'm not sure if it was dovetailed for a sight before sleeved.

[Tom1340]

When pulling a cleaning swab through my R9, I cannot detect variation in bore tightness.  But when I push a pellet through with a thin dowel, there is clearly xtra tightness at both ends of the barrel. So I'm still wondering...

[Frank in Fairfield]

Pretty good discussion on AGN about this very subject.
Maybe the same OP???

[Bayman]

When pulling a cleaning swab through my R9, I cannot detect variation in bore tightness.  But when I push a pellet through with a thin dowel, there is clearly xtra tightness at both ends of the barrel. So I'm still wondering...

Pushing a projectile through a barrel is called slugging the barrel. It allows you to feel the slightest variation in the barrel and shows how the rifling prints in the projectile.

Your results are typical of Weihrauch barresl. Their barrels are splined and pressed into the beech. That creates the first tight spot. Often referred to as the breech choke. The muzzle choke is created by crimping the muzzle for a sight.

Both chokes are deliberate. The first time I found the breech choke I though the barrel was defective. I later learned that they all have that. The breech choke acts like a pellet sizer. It sizes pellets to a uniform size.

The second choke stabilizes the pellet as it last leaves the barrel.

You'll find the rifllng in the middle a loose fit. Thus the drag difference in barrel lengths is minimal. Rarely some Weihrauch barrels are too loose in the middle. Is it the bore that's loose? Or is it the breech choke too tight?

I had a 20 cal barrel that was too loose in the middle and was bypassing pressure. Weihrauch replaced the barrel and the replacement barrel made between a half pound and full pound more energy depending on pellet.