Recommendations for a Diana 27...

[Kragman1]

Just fired my first shots with a new to me Hy-Score 807 (.22), which was a recent gun show purchase.  The airgun gods must have steered my hand, because it was an impulse buy - I really knew nothing about them.

Well, I know now that they are fine little rifles!

It needed nothing but 2 clicks left to be on target, and shot very well.  Understand that my old eyes simply can't use open sights well anymore but I was shooting cloverleafs into the points of a big diamond shaped blur.  I didn't expect anything like that with open sights, but it shot everything well.

So, I will be looking for a small & lightweight low power airgun scope to mount on it and I would love to know what some of the shooters here decided on.

Also, if anyone has recommendations for maintenance, things to watch out for or some nice upgrades, I'd like to hear about those too.


This rifle has more "pop" than I expected but is still well mannered, so I can only imagine that many of you are enjoying yours (in either caliber).
It's not an HW30, but it's got a lot going for it!


Thanks all

ps - it has to be an AO scope...

[Yogi]

I think most people will recommend a 3-7 power scope, Hawke and Bugbuster should be where you start looking.

Shouldn't this be posted in the Optics Section?

-Y

[Kragman1]

Thanks Yogi.

As for location, I'm looking for more than just the scope advice so I posted it here.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure a moderator will move it for me.  But I think that it 60/40 belongs here.

I'm kinda hoping to find a Hy-Score scope for it.  If they were springer worthy (recoil and parallax setting).

[Yogi]

Thanks Yogi.

As for location, I'm looking for more than just the scope advice so I posted it here.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure a moderator will move it for me.  But I think that it 60/40 belongs here.

I'm kinda hoping to find a Hy-Score scope for it.  If they were springer worthy (recoil and parallax setting).

Well start combing the classifieds.  Perhaps at your next airgun show....

-Y

[Toxylon]

Cool find, Brian!

I'm eyeing a D27 as we speak. The 27 was Tom Gaylord's "all-time favorite airgun", so the recs are there.

[Bayman]

Hey Brian nice find. The D27 is the only Diana I know anything about. I worked on one that had a bent spring and bent spring guide. I wound up turning a completely new guide, tophat and replacing the spring. The trigger is tricky to get back together. I converted it from a leather seal to a synthetic seal. In hindsight I wish I didn't. The seal was damaged upon removal so reusing it was out of the question. There's ways of rejuvenating the leather seals. Mike Driskill is the authority on these guns as far as I am concerned. He helped me immensely. I believe you have my phone number. Call me and I'll elaborate if you want.

[KWK]

IF adjusted right, the trigger is very good. One screw is the lock screw. Loosen it first if you are going to turn the adjustment screw. There is a procedure to get it in the ballpark if the trigger isn't close to where it should be. A two stage with a very nice crisp release.

[Kragman1]

Thanks everyone!

I knew about the 3 ball sear trigger once I knew what model it was.  It's adjusted very well right now so I won't touch it.  1st stage is long and oddly, starts heavy then lightens up as you approach the 2nd stage, which I don't like.  2nd stage is quite good.

I did decide to mount a Hunters Specialties 2-8x32 with SF on it last night.  Basically a rebranded version of the Vortex Diamondback HP as far as I can tell.  It looks too modern for that rifle but it's a very nice scope that dials down to 10 yards and isn't long or heavy so it will do for now.  Needs low rings though.

Rifle is definitely accurate.  I simply can't use open sights very well anymore but here's what three honest shots produced across my basement (H&N Sport wadcutters):

FYI, velocity is too low to make clean holes but it hits the trap loudly and consistently so I'm guessing that it is shooting correctly.  I'll get it over a chrony soon enough.

[KWK]

Mine is a 177 and runs about 650 with something around 8 grains.
Have you tried a little aperture sight? I can't see regular irons very well at all but a sport type peep sight cleans up the light enough for me to shoot pretty well.

[Yogi]

Thanks everyone!

I knew about the 3 ball sear trigger once I knew what model it was.  It's adjusted very well right now so I won't touch it.  1st stage is long and oddly, starts heavy then lightens up as you approach the 2nd stage, which I don't like.  2nd stage is quite good.

I did decide to mount a Hunters Specialties 2-8x32 with SF on it last night.  Basically a rebranded version of the Vortex Diamondback HP as far as I can tell.  It looks too modern for that rifle but it's a very nice scope that dials down to 10 yards and isn't long or heavy so it will do for now.  Needs low rings though.

Rifle is definitely accurate.  I simply can't use open sights very well anymore but here's what three honest shots produced across my basement (H&N Sport wadcutters):

FYI, velocity is too low to make clean holes but it hits the trap loudly and consistently so I'm guessing that it is shooting correctly.  I'll get it over a chrony soon enough.

Well it can not be a rebranded Vortex Diamondback HP!  Those only "focused" down to 20 yards, great glass though...

-Y

[Kragman1]

I'll have to look when when I get home Yogi, but I thought it was 10.  Not positive.

Never mind - this stock photo shows 20.
I didn't have any trouble with it at 10 though.

[Yogi]

Whatever.....
Unfortunately that Vortex scope is NLA.  Darn good glass!

-Y

[MDriskill]

Mine is a 177 and runs about 650 with something around 8 grains.
Have you tried a little aperture sight? I can't see regular irons very well at all but a sport type peep sight cleans up the light enough for me to shoot pretty well.

+1 on both the power note, and the sight recommendation. This nifty light classic wants a peep sight! The classic Williams ones are great. If you have the typical front globe sight with a fixed pointed "barleycorn" blade, note that this will interchange with the slightly larger sight taking interchangeable metal inserts, which gives you a lot of nice options. Diana made those for many decades.

The scope rail on the model 27 is a lightweight thing held on by spot welds. It's really designed for the classic Diana match sights, which have a unique mount that puts no stress on the welds. A light 20mm scope with sheet metal mounts is usually OK, but be VERY cautious with a big scope or heavy-duty mounts.

Here's an old Diana "Diopter 75" sight. The small "foot" with transverse serrations (which match up to those on the rail) is pushed down by the big round thumb wheel, pulling the sight up against the dovetail. It can be tricky to mount this on the 27 (may not clear the rear receiver cap), but you can usually drop the action out of the stock, pull the cap, mount the sight, and then wiggle stuff back together in reverse order! 😜

[MDriskill]

IF adjusted right, the trigger is very good. The front screw is the lock screw. Loosen it first if you are going to turn the adjustment screw. There is a procedure to get it in the ballpark if the trigger isn't close to where it should be. A two stage with a very nice crisp release.

More good advice! Long story short, the function of the trigger adjustment is ONLY to regulate the first-to-second-stage transition point (it does NOT adjust pull weight per se). In other words, if the second stage is short and crisp...stop! 😁 That's as good as it gets.

I forget...but some 807's may have a plastic trigger blade, with only one screw in the trigger. The lock screw was omitted from these as the friction against the plastic is sufficient to keep the adjuster from vibrating out of position.

[Kragman1]

Thanks again everyone!

Actually, I became worried about using the 2-8, so I dug up a very lightweight 3-9x32, maybe 10oz. No AO but focuses fine at 10 yards on 3x.  That with some cheap aluminum rings and an auxiliary scope stop may be OK.

Also, the return sprng feels quite heavy, and I have seen some pics of them.  Very heavy wire diameter!  Basically, a little monster wedged into a closet.
Has anyone found a reasonable replacement spring?
I wouldn't want anything light, I don't like the idea of hair triggers on springers in the first place.  But the one in mine really does seem overbearing. 

I do wonder if the high spring rate is related to the return of the sear bearing cage though.  I don't see how the trigger/sear work together in my minds eye, so I won't be doing anything until/unless I do.

[MDriskill]

The "closet monster" spring (part 23/5 in the diagram...what a perfect description!  ) does control the sear cage (23/2) as you describe. But it's the first-stage spring (23/6) tht does most of the work of returning the blade and it is much lighter. The resistance you feel may be some binding around the trigger pivot pin (23/4), or between the trigger and cage; I've had that issue on a couple of late 27's with the stamped trigger blade.

The actual firing sear is the two spurs on the front of the cage (23/2), which fit into a hole in the bottom of the outer trigger sleeve (15 - hole not visible in the diagram - see the photo). The famous ball bearings have nothing to do with how the pull feels, their job is to grab and release the piston bent, analagous to the big hook on the top of the HW Rekord.





Here's a more complete description of the trigger...also great for insomnia issues!

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182167.0

[Kragman1]

Thank you Mike!

BTW, I happily appreciate that these rifles have a very modest power level (and all the good manners that comes with it) but I do wonder how a modern seal would do in one. 
If it turns out that mine needs a piston seal, I have no idea if I would be better staying with leather or converting.

I've wondered the same thing about my Diana 45 too.

[Yogi]

Leather seals you have to make.
Synthetic seals you can buy.

-Y

[Toxylon]

Quite a few synthetic seal replacements for antique leather-sealed guns are in fact a poor fit, and expensive, to boot. I would stay with leather if leather was there to begin with, for several reasons.

It's not true that leather seals you have to make yourself. Companies such as Metura Schietsport, Versandhaus Schneider, Waffencenter Gotha, Chambers UK and others sell replacement leather seals for many older springers.

Yet leather seals can be made at home, with a few tools and inexpensive materials. But leather seals rarely need replacing. They can last up to 100 years of use, especially in low-power guns (not so much in a healthy D45). The leather seals in my c. 55 yo. BSF, and my 60+ yo D25 for instance, are as good as new. Also, lubing a leather-sealed gun is dead simple.

British guys shooting century+ old BSA's, Webleys and Bonehills have learned that switching to synthetic seals on those offers no upside, even in velocity.

[Kragman1]

Duke - that's exactly what I needed to set me straight.  Thank you!

The 27 may not need anything (and I hope it doesn't) but if so, I will stay with leather.

So now the big question...

To restore/maintain leather seals, neatsfoot oil vs silicone oil vs white lithium, etc., etc.

What does the wise man use?