Pistols Just Pistols

[Nukall856]

  Pellet.Hits.The.Can. < Plinking, hunting paper and cans. Why, because Launching lead from steel at aluminum, tin or paper or anything not alive is good fun.
  I have a new Snowpeak SP500.
It took 5 days to get here all the way from Netherlands, that is fast shipping. First i tightened all the stock screws and cleaned the barrel.  Nice micro adjust turn screws on the rear sight. Cocking and Wedge type Lockup is smooth. Takes maybe >15 lbs to open the barrel, light. The safety is a push button on the trigger. A small allen screw on the front of the triggerblade is used to adjust the trigger. Has a nice rubber overlay on the Pistolgrip. Barrel is around 8.75" or 220mm. OAL is around 15, 3/8" or 390mm. A 1377 is around 357mm OAL. Weight is nearly the same though the SP500 may be an ounce < +/- heavier, still light, 13xx is my "normal pistol" feel.
 First 10 shots with SSM 8.2gr, Hitting high and right. Changed to EHD 7.9gr. SP500 Hitting all over the place in first 20-30shots then started to calm down and settle groups. There was a 10 mph headwind which is not good for lower power accuracy. Around 50 shots in i was getting 1.5" groups, one of my new 1377 is setup for 3 and 4 pumps will do less than an inch at 10yards with 3 pumps and CPW 7.4gr. With the rear sight bottomed out still hitting around .5 high at 10 yards and around 1" high at 15yards.
  To fix the high hitting rear sight i removed the stock from the action, 8 of #2 philips screws, 4 hold the action, 2 hold the 2 frame, 2 hold the grip overlay. . Then using a file and a small sharp knife i removed some material where the rear sight was hitting the stock. Removed around 2- 2.5mm. Good. But not done, next i tightened the barrel hinge screw. And added blue locktight to the hinge nut and the stock screws. Almost done. Vinyl Electric tape down both sides on the compression tube, reassemble action to stock and cut off the exposed tape. Added Camo Gtape to the barrel this adds a some grams of weight to the front, eats vibrations and give me a nice handle from the cold steel..
  I tried some loosegoose grip shots < Zero, Zip, Keiner Accuracy> pistol lurches forward and placing shots where the pistol wants, not where i want. I tried some forearm rested shots, also tried holding the forearm, doing this changes the shot POI. For me it has to be held out with 2 hands gripped firmly. At a later time i may try some padded rested shots but im sure this one doesnt like to be rested.
  In the first shots the trigger was randomy, either get little travel or no travel, not heavy not light trigger pull.  I tried adjusting the trigger screw out, this removed travel while adding to the trigger weight. I then adjusted in past the original setting. After a few shots and adjustments i got the trigger to where i like < travel with a pressure stop, pull weight is not heavy. Ill try fine adjusting at a later time, but fornow i like how i have it set. 
  Nice barrel I tried some CPW and CPD 7.4gr and RDB 7.0gr being light pellets and lightly loose fit they brought about alot of movement during the shot. Just to try already knowing..  DaisyPointed 7.5gr, too tight fit.. no good. Hits very low and makes the shot cycle sound bad. CPHP 7.9gr tried 1 of these, fit was snug but not too much. Hit where i aimed at 10yards, shot cycle was smooth, but ill use these on higher medium power AGs. PremiumRoundNose 8.4gr good fit, but too heavy hitting abit too low and sounds like the powerplant not happy pushing these.
So far ExciteHammerDome 7.9gr, CrosmanMatchGrade 7.9gr, SigSauerMatch 8.2gr have the best fit not loose not tight and bring about a smooth shot cycle and give me the best accuracy.
 Today weather was windy and rainy, so i shot some cans without seeking accuracy.
   Around 200 + shots in
Sp500 + EHD 7.9gr

405
418
419
414
416
409
410
403
420
417

17fps spread
Avg 413fps
3.0 FPE

  At a later time ill chrono the CMG 7.9gr and the SSM 8.2 gr.
  Cans at 10 -15yards stand no chance against my PHTC Pistola.
IkbiendeKoning opde luftgewehr

NVak

[Nukall856]

  After the rain past, I ran more shots through. Today i noticed the airgun had calmed down in recoil so i thought id give the light pellets another run. Compared to 100 shots in, the shot cycle sound is louder, but still quiet.. 1377 with 3 pumps is louder. I have a decibel app but, thatll be done another time.
Began with the CMG7.9gr and work my way to the 7.4s. Next was the non crosmans, starting with 8.2gr and ending with 6.9gr.
  Barrel was cleaned around 150 shots, before the test below. The pistol was allowed to cool off for 5+ minutes in 50°F- 52°F between each pellet test, no warmup shots or re-leading shots. 
 Test begins with 250+ shots in, 10 shots each pellet.
---
RwsSuperHP 6.9gr
10fps spread
Avg443fps
3.01FPE
---
 RwsDiabloBasic 7.0gr
14fps spread
Avg 437fps
2.97FPE
---
CrosmanPremierWadcutter 7.4gr
24fps spread
Avg 399fps
2.62FPE
---
CrosmanPointed 7.4gr
37fps spread
Avg 395fps
2.56FPE
---
CrosmanPremier Destroyer 7.4gr
12fps spread
382fps
2.40FPE
---
CrosmanMatchGrade 7.9gr
32fps spread
Avg385fps
2.60FPE
---
SigSauerMatch 8.2 gr
23fps spread
Avg 405fps
2.99FPE
-------
Tested around 200 shots in.
EHD7.9gr
17fps spread
Avg 413fps
3.0 FPE
><><
Retest @ 300 +shots
18fps spread
Avg 409fps
2.94FPE
-------
After the test I cleaned the barrel and send a few more down range.. with the shot cycle smoothing 6.9gr- 7.4gr were better behaved than before.
Ill be setting 3" paper shootnsee targets at 10 and 15yards to see what I can print on paper with the tested pellets.

NVak

[Nukall856]

 I once said somewhere else that i thought the UxTrevox .177 was Hot and Loud. It is both Hot and Loud. Abit heavy compared to the other pistols i have.
 Opening and cocking the barrel is abit heavy. Good strong smooth ball type lockup. Manual Safety is right above the trigger on the stock, push button type.
 After around 50 shots i encountered 1 problem, the pin in the cocking arm link came loose blocking the cocking process. I removed the stock from the action, 2 front screw and 1 rearscrew behind the PistolGrip. I then knocked the pin using a punch to re flare the end of the pin.
 I then removed the breech seal and added 2 layers of halfcut threadtape to shim the seal out. I also added Blue locktight to the screws. Then i opened up the Breech Leade using a cone shaped stone bit and a Dremel.
 One other thing. After a couple hundred shots the rearsight broke after taking a small fall. I was unable to repair it nor did i contact Ux on getting a replacement rearsight. I tried a Hammers 2x20mm for awhile, but chose to go with a Hawkeye Open Red Dot sight mounted on a Lonsel Dovetail Picatinny rail. This has my sight 2.5" above pellet, more than i would like. I might try to McGyver a rearsight on there. I really did like this with the Open sights. But rather Flimy Rearsight design as is.
 Cans at 15 and 20 Yards get hit when i have my elbows rested. Trigger adjusted to add travel. I would like to shorten the travel some amount. The adjustment screw is infront of the trigger, the stock must be removed to access the adjustment screw. Ill be drilling a hole in the triggerguard to access the adjustment screw without having to remove the stock.
 
 OAL<  18 1/8", 461mm
Barrel< 10 1/8", 257mm

UxTrevox
CPHP 8.0gr
Varying fit, good to snug fit

1. 489
2. 490
3. 503
4. 514
5. 511
6. 495
7. 504
8. 510
9. 508
10. 495

 Spread< 25 FPS
  Avg 502 FPS
  4.5 FPE
-------

NVak

[gloob]

I have got a lot of fun out of my Trevox. If you want to reduce the trigger travel, there's a screwhead that is visible right in front of the trigger. If you replace that with a longer screw, you can reduce the pretravel.

You can also take out the trigger return spring, completely. The trigger will flop around when uncocked. But the sear spring, alone, is plenty strong enough for the gun to function properly. The trigger will be significantly lighter.

The length to the trigger is very short for adult hands and the angle of the triggers gets weird, after you do this. I added a trigger shoe to get it where I wanted.

You can check to make sure the safety still engages, after each adjustment to the trigger screw. On mine, the safety is the first thing that will stop working as you adjust the screw in. My safety actually broke, because I set it to where it took a little force to engage... and it just eventually snapped one time as I tried to engage it!

 

Rear sight also broke on mine, only a few weeks in. I fabbed up my own. I also use a red dot, at times, and I found it necessary to add a scope stop to keep it from moving. Pretty simple to do, if you have a tap set, but you have to take the gun apart. Getting it back in is pretty hard but possible (if you weigh 180+ lbs!) without a spring compressor.

Hot and Loud: Mine dieseled for a long, long time. After it finally stops, I find my Trevox is seemingly the quietest 500 fps springer/gas-piston I own! But maybe it's deceiving, since all my other springer are rifles! 

[lillysdad621]

NUk... im following your sp500 saga with lots of interest. I am on the fence about getting one (Diana p-five ), but that power level sounds about right. There is something mystical about shooting a breakbarrel pistol that really fascinates me. I have several spring pistols (webleys and HW) and have been able to get good results. Its all a matter of perception and setting right expectations with those. I had a 5g a while back and it was difficult to shoot accurately. But i also expected to have rifle accuracy at 20 yards. they are not for that. 10 yards is plenty far. If i can tame mine to do 1 in groups at 8 to 10 yards, i'll be happy. I have been tempted by the Benji nitro and the trevox... but have not given in due to the sights. Maybe a Hatsan???

[Nukall856]

gloob,
 Thats some good information on the airgun trigger, thankyou. Only thing i dont like on my UxTvx is the long trigger travel. I have adjusted it, but i feel i need to fine tune the trigger adjustment to have a little shorter travel.
Excellent work gloob.

lillysdad621,
 Thankyou for reading and for your reply. Coool you had a Diana5g, wow sounds fun.
The SP500 is a copy of the Diana P-Five.
 Any pistol, in the end it is just a pistol that needs alot of practice to get good at 10, 15 and 20 yards. Open handed shooting i can hit 10 and 15 yard cans, but to hit 20 i really need my elbows rested. I have tried rested shots and that just doesnt work for me with this breakbarrel pistol. 1 inch at 10 yards is very good for a breakbarrel pistol. I have thought of getting a SP500 in.22 to accompany the SP500 .177,, but not right now.
 I have though of the BenNitro Pistol, but idk i dont like the idea of a short barrel with a removable cocking aid..
 The Hatsan Supercharger QE .22 is one pistol i have had my eye on for sometime now. 8+FPE in .22, sounds very fun. But fornow that will remain as an idea for a later time
 ExcellentWork StayAlert, lillysdad621

NVak
 

[lillysdad621]

Hey Nuk. The p-five is just a rebranded sp500. lucky you that you can find it in .22... it makes more sense to me that something that is only practical at short ranges should use a more effective caliber. I do use my pistols for hunting, and the 13xx has been my go to for that. I have even used a 717 daisy for squirrel hunting inside of 10 yards (hard!!!), but that is mostly good for pest birds and mice. The 5g was not as powerful as it states, getting a max of 545 fps with a 8 gr pellet. The 1322 I use for hunting now will chuck a 14.3 grain crosman at 492 fps avg. and has anchored squirrels and rabbits out to 15 yards without a problem. But i miss the break barrel and i want a spring, not a ram... Another 5g would be ideal, even though they are only available in .177 here... or the browning/hatsan offering in .22, But beggars cant be choosers... the p-five will have to do

[Nukall856]

lillysdad621
 To correct myself, im sure a Sp500 doesnt come in .22. I am however able to find a Isaazon 5.5mm AirPistol, which is exactly the same as a SP500 except it only comes in 5.5mm/.22.  There is not much information on this Isaazon5.5mm Airpistol. I know i say this alot but,, Sounds very fun.
 I too have used both 1377x10.1" and 1322x10.1" to hunt. Ive taken small feathers at 20 yards with both, i dont want to push the x10.1"s further than 20 yards in pistol form. I have also used the 1322x10.1" on large feathers at 15 yards, a shot to the base of the neck stop it, DRT. I have my C2289 with the 14.6" barrel and a 1322x14" with a Hammers 2x20mm that i shoot as pistols. 13xx with a 1399 stock < different story, different thread.
 The Hatsan Mod25 Supercharger comes in Spring Piston and comes in .177 and .22.
 I would like one in either caliber, but maybe the .22 would be a first choice.. maybe at a later time though.

NVak

[Doug Wall]

lillysdad621
 To correct myself, im sure a Sp500 doesnt come in .22. I am however able to find a Isaazon 5.5mm AirPistol, which is exactly the same as a SP500 except it only comes in 5.5mm/.22.  There is not much information on this Isaazon5.5mm Airpistol. I know i say this alot but,, Sounds very fun.
 I too have used both 1377x10.1" and 1322x10.1" to hunt. Ive taken small feathers at 20 yards with both, i dont want to push the x10.1"s further than 20 yards in pistol form. I have also used the 1322x10.1" on large feathers at 15 yards, a shot to the base of the neck stop it, DRT. I have my C2289 with the 14.6" barrel and a 1322x14" with a Hammers 2x20mm that i shoot as pistols. 13xx with a 1399 stock < different story, different thread.
 The Hatsan Mod25 Supercharger comes in Spring Piston and comes in .177 and .22.
 I would like one in either caliber, but maybe the .22 would be a first choice.. maybe at a later time though.

NVak

I have a SP500 in .22! It's labeled as such. I got it from an ebay dealer about a year ago. Not a bad gun for the price. I added a trigger adjustment screw behind the trigger to eliminate the long trigger pull.

[triggerfest]

SP500 looks like a fun pistol to me and seems to get good reviews. Also the Diana version of it.

The Hatsan 25 SC is of course a step up and basically everything you don't want with a spring piston air pistol. Too BIG, too heavy, too much of a powerful spring inside with harsh recoil, hard to cock.

But... Hatsan engineered the 25 SC in an amazing way, so you can wipe all of the above away (well it still stays big LOL). But this air pistol has a great balance, with the grip perfectly positioned under the action and the recoil reduction works flawlessly. Also the cocking lever at the end of the barrel provides good cocking support. The only thing that remains is that it is loud, as in .22lr loud.

And the question of course spring piston operated or gasram inside.

Would be fun to see a shoot out between the SP500 and the 25 SC and your 1377 in the future. But no pressure 

[Nukall856]

Doug Wall,
 Hey thats cool. I havent seen a SP500 in .22 yet despite having looked for awhile. On the subject of SP500 trigger, i have adjusted my trigger to add travel. It takes 2 or 3 shots for the trigger to "wake up" inwhich the first 2 or 3 shots have short travel. The following shots have the soft yet present stop in the trigger travel.
 When i am in the roll, at 15 yards i get 2/3 to 3/4 shots to hit on water filled soda cans. When im not in the roll it can be 1/2 that hit and 1/2 that dont hit. 10 yards for the most part will be 10/10 hits on Cans.

triggerfest,
 I have read much on the HMod25SC. Very intrigueing, though i do not own one yet. I would like to get one in Spring Piston and in either caliber.
 Yesterday i worked on McGyvering a rearsight for my Ux Trevox.  I took the rear sight blade from a B1022, drilled a hole for the holding screw into the original rearsight base then drilled a hole to access the elevation screw, but yesterday i ranout of shooting light to get it sight in to see if itl work. As it is i dont like using a red dot sight much, each and every movement you make is shown and magnified, compared to open sights where your eyesight can compensate for some movement.
 Later if the rain lets up ill be able to test if the McGyver Sight will work.
 Thankyou for your reply,
ExcellentWork StayAlert

NVak

[Nukall856]

SP500 .177

   With around 700+ shots in. This test was on low costing pellets that have varying fit and are fit for plinking in most Airguns.  CPHP 7.9gr can be very good when the fit is right.
  After the ChronoRun i shot at some cans at 15 and 20 yards using some of the pellets tested, Sightin is still set for EHD 7.9gr +"@ 10 yards.


DaisyFlat Nose < DFN 7.6gr
 Varying, Snug to tight
1. 352
2. 350
3. 348
4. 355
5. 343
6. 352
7. 351
8. 341
9. 363
10. 346

 Spread< 20 FPS
  Avg 350 FPS
 2.1 FPE
-------
DaisyPointed < DPT 7.6gr
 Varying Fit, Snug to Tight
1. 355
2. 354
3. 338
4. 358
5. 355
6. 354
7. 351
8. 352
9. 372
10. 361

 Spread< 34 FPS
  Avg 355 FPS
2.1 FPE
-------
GamoMatch< GM 7.6gr
 Light to snug fit
1. 345
2. 353
3. 372
4. 350
5. 352.
6. 352
7. 356
8. 353
9. 368
10. 364
 Spread< 27 FPS
  Avg 357 FPS
 2.2 FPE
-------
CPHP 8.0gr
 Good to snug fit
1. 326
2. 345
3. 325
4. 328
5. 324
6. 339
7. 330
8. 339
9. 331
10. 335

 Spread< 19 FPS
  Avg  332 FPS
 1.9 FPE
-------
Cleaned the barrel to retest
EHD 7.9gr
Consistent good fit
1. 418
2. 423
3. 420
4. 411
5. 409
6. 400
7. 412
8. 408
9. 416
10. 400

 Spread < 23 FPS
 Avg 412 FPS
 3.0 FPE
-------

NVak

[lillysdad621]

wait, you got an increase of 70 fps by cleaning the barrel?

[Nukall856]

lilysdad621,

 In the beginning of this thread, the first post shows an average of 413 FPS using Excite Hammer Dome 7.9gr.  Another retest Avg of 409 FPS. The 3rd retest of EHD 7.9 Avg 412 FPS. EHD 7.9gr have a consistent fit, not snug nor loose and have a good low variation in weight.
 The pellets in the 2nd Chrono run were on pellets that seemed to perform good in accuracy and fit. The Pellets in this 3rd Chrono Run of the SP500 are on Low Cost Pellets, pellets that vary in fit and weight causing higher FPS Spread. This makes them good for Cans, not great for hunting or seeking dimes on paper. I am refering to DFN, DPT and GM 7.6gr.
 CPHP can be very good in some barrels.
The 4 tested pellets were for the most part snug fitting causing lower FPS/ FPE.
 Tiny powerplants like the SP500 show that pellet fit is very important in breakbarrel use, the small powerplant magnifies the lower performance <FPS/FPE> of loose or tight fitting pellets.
 
NVak
 

[lillysdad621]

also know that you can use a ball bearing to pre flare the skirt of a pellet, effectively making them more consistent. so much so in pellets with a kigh concentration of antimony, like the crosman pellets. Daisy pellets are the opposite, very much like the RWS or JSB pellets. Skirts are softer and therefore the flaring happens when the balst of air "fits "the skirt. Crosman uses a harder mix of lead to avoid skirt or pellet damage before we get them open.