Parallax Error of Leupold VX Freedom

[Rick67]

OZ is one of the best optics dealer out there.

Bought 2 Clearidge scopes from him (Jon, the owner).

He’s pretty popular on Rimfire Central.

Besides, with Leupolds, you’re set for life.

I won’t and don’t buy 2nd hand 

[Bayman]

So, you use the scope like a peep sight with a large aperture.

A 1 - 4 X sounds ideal to me.  Just never tried one with a 100 yard parallax at 10 yards.  That said, 1" groups at 25 yards are "easy"; but not good, if you ae expecting 1/4" groups.

My 177 Hw50 with the described 4x non AO 100 yard parallax scope will do 1/4-3/8" groups at 25 yards all day long. Parallax error can easily be defeated with good form and practice. Those groups hold with the rest of my AO equipped Weihrauchs. At airgun ranges you really have to have bad form to have significant wandering POI. Most people's skill and equipment is more likely the culprit in most claimed Parallax problems.

Low power scopes with fixed 50 + yard parallaxes can be in focus at very close distances. 2x—4x at ten yards is more than enough.

[Methuselah]

Low power scopes with fixed 50 + yard parallaxes can be in focus at very close distances. 2x—4x at ten yards is more than enough.

Even shooting off bags at 25 with the 22's I found any more than 4 to 5X to be too much. And I agree with you on both form and lower parallax error at lower settings making it less of a problem.

That said, as Richard pointed out, the 9X (3-9) IS an AO scope, but I reckon of the three I was considering it was my least desirable bc of its higher power and price. Where I'm defending the bird feeder and pesting chipmunks, 1/4" error is a likely miss. Even with the junky Optima I rarely missed ... (it was an AO).

I might go for that 3-9, but save for clarity it's not as appealing as the 4X or 2-7 for a 10 yard Daisy 880 or even the 22's at mostly 50 yards and under. I have two 3-9's and a 4-12 on them already (and truth be told my favorite is probably the Winchester 67 with open sights and 28" barrel).

I'll probably call Jon and ask about possible returns on the 2-7 or 4X. The 3-9 AO is definitely still in the running at 11% off if shipping or return policy doesn't eat that back up.

Perhaps there's a shooter at my work with one of these ... a few minutes behind it going the head-bob and I'd have a confident decision    Still, I think the decision has been made a lot clearer by the replies and I appreciate it.

[Rick67]

Although I’m wont not to endorse Chinese optics, the 2-7x32 Hawke Vantage IR, mildot with glass-etched reticle is one of the nicest out there for the money… And Hawke does have excellent warranty.. Light and very clear and on top of one of my Crosman carbines, 1 of several toys I left behind when I came to the US.

Like all my scopes in Asia, they were brought in by my cuz who would always traverse both continents.

Come to think of it, I was more of a scope snob when I was still in the PI, the owner of 4 Bushnell Elites, the most expensive close to a grand back in 2015.

No warranties over there, so I had to purchase top tier optics 

Oh, since you like small optics, one to consider are crossbow scopes. They can take springers well and aren’t parallax-fidgety 👍

[Bayman]

Low power scopes with fixed 50 + yard parallaxes can be in focus at very close distances. 2x—4x at ten yards is more than enough.

Even shooting off bags at 25 with the 22's I found any more than 4 to 5X to be too much. And I agree with you on both form and lower parallax error at lower settings making it less of a problem.

That said, as Richard pointed out, the 9X (3-9) IS an AO scope, but I reckon of the three I was considering it was my least desirable bc of its higher power and price. Where I'm defending the bird feeder and pesting chipmunks, 1/4" error is a likely miss. Even with the junky Optima I rarely missed ... (it was an AO).

I might go for that 3-9, but save for clarity it's not as appealing as the 4X or 2-7 for a 10 yard Daisy 880 or even the 22's at mostly 50 yards and under. I have two 3-9's and a 4-12 on them already (and truth be told my favorite is probably the Winchester 67 with open sights and 28" barrel).

I'll probably call Jon and ask about possible returns on the 2-7 or 4X. The 3-9 AO is definitely still in the running at 11% off if shipping or return policy doesn't eat that back up.

Perhaps there's a shooter at my work with one of these ... a few minutes behind it going the head-bob and I'd have a confident decision    Still, I think the decision has been made a lot clearer by the replies and I appreciate it.

I believe Leupold makes 3x9 rimfire non efr model with a drop reticle. Just don't expect to use 9x at ten yards. I'm sure it'd be quite usable at 3 or 4x.

Not sure where your bird feeder is but mines at 15 yards and sparrows are an easy shot with my peep sighted HW30. Inside 15 yards the closer the hapless target of opportunity gets the harder the time I have with scopes. Not because of parallax or focus but hold over. The scopes height over bore makes holding over necessary at very close ranges. Those hold overs change quickly in a short distance. If I miss really close with a scoped gun it's always because I over or under shot the target. The peeps are point and pull to 25 yards.

I know this strayed off topic but I'm kind of reiterating my point about the need for high mags at close range.

My own personal problem is something called purpose tremor. It's the common condition that causes people's hand to shake more the closer they get the thread to the needles eye. The more magnified something is, the more I over correct and the worse my results. Dialing down the magnification helps reduce purpose tremor.

[Methuselah]

I believe Leupold makes 3x9 rimfire non efr model with a drop reticle. Just don't expect to use 9x at ten yards. I'm sure it'd be quite usable at 3 or 4x.

Not sure where your bird feeder is but mines at 15 yards and sparrows are an easy shot with my peep sighted HW30. Inside 15 yards the closer the hapless target of opportunity gets the harder the time I have with scopes. Not because of parallax or focus but hold over. The scopes height over bore makes holding over necessary at very close ranges. Those hold overs change quickly in a short distance. If I miss really close with a scoped gun it's always because I over or under shot the target. The peeps are point and pull to 25 yards.

I know this strayed off topic but I'm kind of reiterating my point about the need for high mags at close range.

bird feeder is at 10 yards, but I can't make out a HOSP from a chickadee or nuthatch, and have chipmunks ground-feeding under it too...

My own personal problem is something called purpose tremor. It's the common condition that causes people's hand to shake more the closer they get the thread to the needles eye. The more magnified something is, the more I over correct and the worse my results. Dialing down the magnification helps reduce purpose tremor.

Concur 100%. That's why the 3-9 is my third choice, just don't need that much magnification for a 22 and certainly not for a Daisy 880 at 10 yards. Even on bags my groups open up at anything over 5X magification and that's not due to parallax.

A coworker here speaks great praises for Arken scopes, but I give up on finding reviews for the only one of possible interest, their EPL4 4-16x44 FFP VHR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 30mm Tube model at $400. No reviews vs. a Leopold at same price point, well, never owned either but clear choice...

Obviously at this point I'm overthinking this. The ONLY reason I'm going through all the gyrations is I need to hit a 1/4" target reliably at 10 yards, and don't want to spend $$$$ on anything that will still leave me with an itch to scratch  At the moment I have a need (4X no-name is yunk), and a list of wants with one shot at it, pun intended 

[Bayman]

I have one scope over $500. Two if you include the matching one I bought for my wife. Both are on our 223  varmint guns. The rest of my stuff is under $200 when bought right with most of them just either side of hundred.

IMO high dollar optics are nice if you can afford them but not necessary. At least until you're out past 300 yards.  If properly focused for your vision the cheapest garbage Amazon 4x should allow you target identification at ten yards. The feathered critters you mentioned are pretty easily identifiable from each other. We have the same here. They don't require quarter inch accuracy. Run a pellet through the middle of them and they drop like a rock. Most half decent low power scopes are capable of quarter inch accuracy at ten yards. That's as long as the gun, shooter and pellets are capable of it in the first place.

If you want to treat yourself to the Arken or the Leupold, God bless you. I'm not trying to bully you into cheap low power scopes. I'm trying to understand the need for expensive hi power scopes at short distances. That Arken is a lot more scope than the last one I ran on my 223. I've shot woodchucks out to 315 with it.
Whatever you choose, I hope it works out great for you.

[Methuselah]

Ron,

Most of my scopes are quite inexpensive, but I'm gettin older and probably won't purchase another scope after this so decided I'd like to meet a set of criteria even if it costs me a little more than I'm usually willing to spend.

I won't spend $1000+ and I can't spend $500 and meet all my criteria, but if I can meet most for $300 to $400 I shouldn't, but might anyway

My 880 needs to be modded, but trust me, the rifle accuracy + scope accuracy requires the scope to be good to less than 1/4" at 10 yards (quite doable unless parallax bites me).

That Arken is overkill, but that particluar model I mentioned has no ratings and earlier versions have issues, so for a Daisy 880 or .22 pb I'd need some convincing to even consider it but thought I'd mention having looked at it. People reading this thread might also gain from having a look at it --- it does have some nice features for its price point (especially if they addressed some of the shortcomings of its predecessors).

The reason it's not going to be a Pinty or Winchester or Optima or Ohhunt or Svbony (etc.) is I'm rough on scopes and they won't hold up very long. Heck, the one on it now was new and never used and I see better without it than with it at 10 yards!  I'll probably go with the Loupold 4X or 2-7X33, as I've pretty much decided 9X isn't necessary at 50-100 yards max.

I'm also working through all the threads in this gate seeking other alternatives. Sadly, my criteria rules out many suggestions...

[Rick67]

Since you are having 2nd thoughts on the 3-9x33 EFR and would rather settle for a non-AO one, then you might want to try out the Philippine-made Sightron 3-9x32 Rimfire scope with a 50-yard parallax. It should be better than Leupold’s 60-yard one and much cheaper at much less than $200.

Or the Vortex 2-7x32 Crossfire Rimfire, which is even cheaper @ $130 thru Amazon Prime, albeit made in China but with unquestionable warranty same as Leupold’s.

Just look for a store that has a good return policy, so you can test it at 10 yards.

Not gonna comment anymore 👍

[Methuselah]

Since you are having 2nd thoughts on the 3-9x33 EFR and would rather settle for a non-AO one, then you might want to try out the Philippine-made Sightron 3-9x32 Rimfire scope with a 50-yard parallax. It should be better than Leupold’s 60-yard one and much cheaper at much less than $200.

Second thoughts, lol. 3rd thoughts, 4th, 5th...

Or the Vortex 2-7x32 Crossfire Rimfire, which is even cheaper @ $130 thru Amazon Prime, albeit made in China but with unquestionable warranty same as Leupold’s.

I've looked up that Crossfire. Is leaves me in the lurch on the main issue as the Leupolds, paralax, but that's probably ok with a 2X. However,  and I'm not trying to be ungracious because I REALLY appreciate new suggestions (!), however, I find nothing on the reticle - wire or etched. For me to "break" a certain price-point that plays in.

The Sightron may have come across as unremarkable because I know I did some due diligence yesterday but my mind's a puddle of diarrhea...  (maybe burn-out, like everyone listening to me prattle on in this thread)

Just look for a store that has a good return policy, so you can test it at 10 yards.

Maybe you hit the nail on the head just now, Academy Sports, Cabella's, Rural King, and perhaps some pawn shops  might have the scopes in stock...

Not gonna comment anymore 👍

Well, I hate that I drove you to that, didn't mean to! I'm going to investigate your suggestions, see if there's local stock and YouTube videos. I reckon it's tough criteria and a compromised decision...just have to make up my mind where to compromise!

Thanks again for all your input Richard!

[Methuselah]

Tonight I got a look through the Leupold 2-7X33 at Cabellas on the way to see the new spiderman movie.

Horrendous bust.  Scope would not focus at around 10 or 11 yards even at 2X,  started to around 15-20, movie wouldn't focus at all...

Parallax error at 10 yards was small, 3/16" max, and about an inch on 7X.

[Bayman]

Good information. Was it the rimfire model?

[Methuselah]

Good information. Was it the rimfire model?

Leupold VX-Freedom Rimfire Rifle Scope, $299.00

(Wish someone in town had their 4X in stock)

[Bayman]

I would think if the 2-7 wasn't clear at 2x a 4x wouldn't be any better

[Methuselah]

I would think if the 2-7 wasn't clear at 2x a 4x wouldn't be any better

I believe comments on their 4X showed focus at close-in to be luck of the draw, but I suppose it's possible the display models in this store are mostly comprised of customer returns?

The 3-9 I had "dismissed" that had the AO seems more "attractive" all of a sudden, but the two that Amazon had are gone so it shows unavailable. It's not that that I'm in a hurry actually, but I reckon I've about beat the conjecture side of the house to death so if I don't make a decision I've just been wasting everyone's time 

[Rick67]

I would think if the 2-7 wasn't clear at 2x a 4x wouldn't be any better

I believe comments on it showed focus at close-in to be luck of the draw, but I suppose it's possible the display models in this store are mostly comprised of customer returns?

The 3-9 I had "dismissed" that had the AO seems more "attractive" all of a sudden, but the two that Amazon had are gone so it shows unavailable. It's not that that I'm in a hurry actually, but I reckon I've about beat the conjecture side of the house to death so if I don't make a decision I've just been wasting everyone's time 

I kinda miss the Meth Man 

A few months ago, the 3-9x33 EFR was said to be discontinued, so I dunno why some stores were able to get some. When and they do get discontinued, I’m pretty sure Leupold would very much be able to support it; the model being “newish”, or they could just replace it with a direct equivalent.

OZ (Jon) is now down to 3-4 pieces as of this morning ‘cuz I’ve been telling them rimfire guys of that discount I posted somewhere in this thread.

I really think they’ll be gone for good this time, so I’m quite tempted to get one, although I like the 14x Clearidge Duplex Dot better except for its kilometer long length 

Reminds me of my 1st Bushy Elite 1” 6-24x40 Mildot scope that was almost 24” long with the sunshade attached 

[Methuselah]

I kinda miss the Meth Man 

A few months ago, the 3-9x33 EFR was said to be discontinued, so I dunno why some stores were able to get some. When and they do get discontinued, I’m pretty sure Leupold would very much be able to support it; the model being “newish”, or they could just replace it with a direct equivalent.

OZ (Jon) is now down to 3-4 pieces as of this morning ‘cuz I’ve been telling them rimfire guys of that discount I posted somewhere in this thread.

I really think they’ll be gone for good this time, so I’m quite tempted to get one, although I like the 14x Clearidge Duplex Dot better except for its kilometer long length 

Reminds me of my 1st Bushy Elite 1” 6-24x40 Mildot scope that was almost 24” long with the sunshade attached 

I wonder if they will discontinue the entire line?

Well, I didn't find anything about returns but if it's not what I truly want I suppose it will hold a reasonable resale value so I've just placed the order. Free ground shipping and the 11% discount code you provided bring it to $355.99.

All I can say is it's a lot of scope for a .22 (too much for the Daisy 880, so will probably move over the Hawke Vantage 2-7X32 AO from the Savage Mark I).

My best scope was a Burris 4-14X40 AO, now I reckon it's this one.

Your advice (and patience) is much appreciated. I'll post back when I have a chance to check it out.

Thanks for not letting me run you off (or bore you to death) ...

[Methuselah]

Scope received --- Leupold 3-9X33 EFR

Last night not so good, find the zoom "crowded", numbered 3, 4, 6, and 9. It's difficult to pick out a choice between 6 and 9, as they are pretty close together. Weight of this "issue" overall on a scale of 1-5 if assigning stars would likely be - 1/2 (meaning if that's all I found wrong it would stay at 5 stars).

Second issue, the reticle. Very fine in the center, thicker but not too thick .. very nice. HOWEVER, focus, there is a lot of adjustment and cranking the bell requires a lot of adjustment for very little change. This part is a good thing. The bad and reason for the however, is that it is a wire reticle and you can get perfect focus on only one crosshair, pick vertical or horizontal, but pick you must. The eye will do the rest and you will have both in focus most of the time (eye placement plays in). At this price point I really expected an etched reticle. It's definitely the most I've spent on a scope and my Leapers is etched and though no longer made, it's "replacement" with etched glass is in the $250 range. Stars, I think another - 1/2, because even with a wire reticle, it's really a very fine wire - just plain nice.

So far, I'm going to say 4 stars. If it were cheaper, it would be 5 stars. I did get TWO discounts compared to Amazon which no longer has it in stock, 11% off, and no tax. I think it was $356.

The eyebox. Last night not so good, this morning better but not excellent at higher magnification.  That bears out a little explanation. Gotta talk about the focus ring and come back to this.

Tension of adjustments, objective and ocular. Very nice. The ocular had enough resistance where it didn't "spin" and wasn't difficult to turn. The lock nut was perfectly drilled machined for threads and facing was parallel, so when spinning up the locknut it didn't move the bell, it just stopped there and done, no discernable movement to final tighten - perfection. Objective ring, a bit of tension but not so much it's difficult and not loose to the point you might expect bumping or strafing it would result in movement. Again, perfect.

On that objective ring, 10 isn't 10, it's marked "10M". I think it's yards. I really think it's yards. I hope it's yards. Really, what's with that "M"? Nitpicky. The measurements are off quite a bit though as you go farther in range. At 10 yards it's close, by 50 not so much. Still, it's a rimfire scope, not a big deal or deal-breaker in any form or fashion. Minus 0 stars.

Clarity. CLARITY! There be CLARITY in abundance. Bright, clear glass. Period! Easily as good as anything I've ever looked through. And edge to edge focus, well, sometimes perfect, sometimes there was obvious depth of field coming into play. No complaints. (none, zero, nada, zip, zero, zilch).

Here's the ugly though. Yesterday, scope lost focus with changes in zoom. Get it in focus, change the zoom and focus was pooched. Never seen that happen before. Dragged out my Leapers, no such issue. My (cheapest) Optima that got water in it and took years to dry out, no such issue either. I also find that that focus ring will keep turning well past where I expected it to have a stop. And so I did --- ran it until I hit a stop and put it away for the night. This morning, problem gone, no change in focus at long or short range with zoom setting. OK, now it's good. So (?)

Instructions were no help, nothing but vague and generic, but online their website instructions say turn objective to the stop then adjust. Again - OK. Not going to ding it a star for a problem that may not exist, not going to ding it for lack of a stop (at least one extreme has no stop, just turns 150% or so past the end and gets tight). Just have to remember that old addage (joke?), doc, it hurts when I put my arm like this --- answer: don't put your arm like this...

NOW back to that eyebox. I think it was more critical when it had the mystery focus tantrum than it is now that the issue resolved. Eyebox is very good at lower power, and at higher a little critical. It's still probably excellent, it's still probably going to be more excellent when mounted so cheek weld with be of assistance.

Overall I'm going to say it's easily a 4 star scope, probably my best scope although I hadn't compared it head to head with my Burris 4.5-14 yet. I'm also going to repeat myself, I was nitpicky about some things (had very high expectations), and though $350 is more than I've ever forked out for a scope, there are many more out there in the 5-10X cost bracket --- for the money it might easily be a 5 star scope to those folk willing to spend more than I am. For me, comparing it to what I have at the prices I've paid, it's a 4 or 4 1/2 star scope that would have had to cost in the $250 to $300 range for me to call it a 5.

Now I reckon I'll need to find some lens covers and get it mounted on something. Perhaps I'll "fix" the Diana 34 and try it there.

Just my $.02