Affects of temp on CO2

[dpricenator]

I have several times about CO2 and the affects cold temps haves on it.  I understand, cold air, is more dense than warm air so you have less presur ein dside the container or cartridge.

BUT

How big is the affect?  I live in SoCal so I am not worried about freezing temps very often.  And as a Cali guy, if it is freezing outside, I am inside or skiing.  However it got down to a frigid 40* last night and was cool all day. 

Also Could the affects be mitigated by keeping all the CO2 cartridges ina warm house, or even in the furnace closet (not hot but 90* in there).  In my case having a warm gun and cartridge, Would I be able to use my 2240 in the winter around here?

[aack73]

co2 will see changes with temperature.  from 40degree in morning to warmer 50/60 day or even more so. co2 starts as a liquid.as it warms it is the gas off of the liquid that you want to shoot. it would definitely help to start with a warmer tank but dont over do it. on a warm/hot day it can even cause the bursts disk to let go if left in the sun etc.   co2 will cool down with multiple rapid shots as well. 

if you start out with a 90deg gun inside and go out to 40deg  outside it will cool down eventually and may cause enough pressure loss to see a change in velocity.

[dpricenator]

right on, With the new Boss Valve, i'm told I will only get 17 or so full power shots from a 12 g cartridge.  I figure I can run through 17 shots on a target fast enough to not see much affect.  Then we go back inside and grab another warm one. 

[aack73]

have to try and see. i guess every gun is a little different. my co2 experience coming from a variety of different paintball guns. some would definitely freeze worse than others. a lot of which depended on the volume after the tank. at least from my experiences. i think at 17 shots you'll be ok. last couple of useable shots will likely slow down a little. but you get the same thing from hpa. last of shots will come from less pressure. only time it became an issue to us was when it was cold and rapid firing would cause the gun to "freeze up" and almost stop shooting. you could see a drastic change in velocity. this coming from a gun shooting 280/330 fps.

[hogdog4953]

Well now I know why my soft air cat chaser did not work well last winter. (no cats were harmed just butt shots so dogs would not hurt them). Frigid 40 deg come on over to chicago

[Ribbonstone]

They cool off pretty quickly in rapid fire, esp. without a warm day to help stabilize them.  Got the double cooling of the gas that expands to drive the pellet (and it cools from expansion) and the cooling when liquid co2 in the cartridge converted to gas to replace whats been shot.  Shoot fast, and the gun cools down enough to see vel. drop, even on a hot day.

Can certainly shoot co2 down at 45-50F.  Will use a good bit more gas per shot and will shoot slower than it would on a warm day, but it will still shoot.

[rsterne]

Here is the pressure chart....



You are interested in the horizontal straight lines in the bottom section of the graph.... repeated in the white table, upper left.... Unfortunately, different guns react differently to the change in pressure, so it's difficult to predict how much velocity you will lose at lower temperature.... but you will lose....

Bob

[.22 Varmint]

   I have shot my Crosman 2260 numerous times in the cold and it does shoot slower and produce a shorter shot count. I find that it as long as you do not shoot rapidly, is still has plenty of power for plinking. I have never actually measured the velocity drop on a cold day, and at long range there may be a more dramatic POI change downrange.

Andrew   

[TimmyMac1]

  .....I find that it as long as you do not shoot rapidly, is still has plenty of power for plinking. ...Andrew    

The pressure doubles from 40 F to 90F
Guns that can tolerate that range and still be relatively consistent are out there but they are not numerous. It involves balancing pressure with Valve duration. Lower pressure creating longer duration.

CO2 guns will be more consistent the more CO2 you have on board. The chill that is developed by a shot can be thermally managed if the Volume of CO2 is adequate.

As long as the temperature doesn't drop too much you can get good accuracy albiet slower velocity/lower power.

Some guns fall on their face when it is cold. Guns that feed only Vapor to the valve like the Tau7 LD Drulov, Aeron, Brno CO2 guns use this layout where the CO2 comes in the botom from the grip.

LD's lose ~10% velocity from 85F to 45F going from 560 to 505 FPS
That is about 20% loss of energy from 10 to 8 FPE.

You can still hunt with it in the winter on CO2 but a lot of guys like to use the HPA regulated AIR tanks @ 800 psi and the gun gets the 560 no matter how cold it gets. It is nice to make guns that are dual fuel. The advantage to using the best seals is you can go either way. The HPA tanks screw into the same adapter the CO2 tanks screw into so they are a direct switch. You can have any of the Chek CO2 guns set-up for 800 psi HPA air once you get the hangy tank adapter made up on your extra cap. I give you an oring for the factory cap that won't swell and the spare cap we make into a Hangy Tank adapter for $45. It has a built in check valve so the gun stays charged when the tank is removed. 13 CI 800 PSI HPA American made tanks are $75 with the thread protector and $80 with the Fill nipple (shroom) cover on a leash.

When you want to get the most power and shots from a 12 gram CO2 system it is impotant to pierce the cartirdge and then let the system warm up so it is at room temperature B4 you start your shooting session. The difference in pressure is amazing and the results will be far greater power and shot count both, if you wait till it is warm and then wait between shots long enuf for the temperature to recover.
It takes about 45 seconds for a gun to regain the pressure it had the previous shot. If it is stood on it takes longer cause you have released more refrigerant. If you shoot fast the pressure will drop every shot. 12 grams do not have adequate CO2 volume to thermally recover rapidly like bulk system can.
On the 22XX series of guns as well as the EB series the most important thing to remember is you are not piercing cartirdge when you are tightening the cap. The first shot pierces the CO2. It is really important to not over torque the cap or you WILL LOSE POWER! A 6 year old can tighten the cap enuf. A man can get it five times tighter than he should. Seal life and power will suffer for this indescretion.
Do not leave empty CO2's in the gun as they will tend to get stuck to the seal and draw it out when you remove the CO2.
A dap of divers grease or a drop of secret sauce is more than adequate to extend the face seals life as long as it isn'tr mashed via overtightening.

[dpricenator]

WOW, guys more info than I expected.  THANKS

[randomgunner]

Kinda OT
Will a qb 79 still work in colder weather?

[TimmyMac1]

QB's were engineered by me so yes they are moderate CO2 users in stock fashion and work pretty well in cold. Not as dramatic as an LD but still pretty good considering the pressure is halved on a real chilly day.
With CO2 hapiness is a warm gun as heat is energy and CO2 at higher temps is far more energy.

[dpricenator]

So I messed arounf with my trigger spring last night and left the gun on my TV, where the heater vent was blowing right on it all night.  This AM I went out to test the trigger, and BLAM.  the difference in a warm gun, and a cool gun is pretty big.

[dk1677]

You know the song " Happiness is a warm gun"    I keep the 850 near the heat in he cold weather