❓ Scopecaming — The Higher the Scope Magnification the Better?

[JungleShooter]

🔴 Scopecaming — The Higher the Scope Magnification the Better? 🔴​
 Help me and check if I'm thinking correctly about scope magnification when taking scopecam footage.
 
 
 🔶 Goal:
 I want to record and edit my shots in such a way that the quarry is very large — so large it pretty much fills the frame.
 


  🔶 Methods:
 ● In order to achive that I need a very large total magnification.
 I can achieve that using three methods: 
 (a) When editing, digitally enlarge the image and crop it.
 (b) When filming, increase the digital zoom of the scopecam.
 (c) When filming, increase the optical "zoom" of the scope (the scope magnification).


  ● Methods (a) and (b) make the image more grainy and thus reduce the sharpness of the image a lot.
 Method (c) reduces the sharpness only as much as the scope quality goes down when using higher magnification. The top scopes I hear don't loose much sharpness.
 

 ❓ Am I missing anything?
 
 
 🔶 Conclusion: Therefore I should:
 ● (a) Buy a scope with a high top end magnification.
 ● (b) Buy a scope with high glass quality that maintains excellent sharpness even at high magnifications.
 

 ❓ Correct?


 
 🔘 Dilemma: 🔘
 
 ● For c. $500 I can get a Vector Continental 5-30x56. It fulfills (a) as it has a high magnification. 
 ● Or — for c. $500 I can get a Riton X7 Conquer 3-18x50. It fulfills (b) as it is usually sold at three times that price.
 There are other options I could mention.
 

 ❓ Your advice?  (Buying both, trying them out, and sending them back is not an option, sorry.)
 
 
 
 Friends, for years you've been helping me spend my money, you pack of enablers!!  😄
 Now help me spend my money wisely, please. 
 
 Matthias

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

The key to good scope cam footage is light!  Higher magification usually means less light transmission, so go for the largest optic [50mm-56mm] and largest tube size [30mm-34mm] to ensure the greatest amount of light is transmitted to the camera.

[Back_Roads]

 Matt probably has some of the best scope cam footage, here is a lin to his original setup, but watch a more recent hunting video and pay attention to his new setup, and mimic it on your budget.

[customcutter]

Matthias, what type of scopecam are you thinking of getting?  I just made a DIY scopecam and there were a few things that went into consideration when I was building it. 

I used a cheap sub $100 action camera mounted 90* to the scope.  I used a prismatic cube in the build.  They make multiple types of cubes.  The main ones I found were 50/50 split (50% to the camera, and 50% to the shooters eye).  The other one was a 70/30 split, I turned it so that 70% went to the camera, and only 30% went to the shooters eye.

Next I had to change the camera lens from the 170* wide angle.  I bought a couple of cheap lenses from Amazon $25 for 2 lenses.  I bought a 12mm and a 16mm lens.  I set it up for the 16mm lens at first, but wanted a wider field of view.  (Opposite of what you are wanting) So, I pulled the 16mm lens and installed the 12mm lens.  The 16mm lens would give you more magnification by 25-30% I think.

If videoing at night, you might want a wider field of view, for locating pests.  Of course if time allows you can zoom out for target acquisition, then zoom in for shooting.  I'm just thinking a real narrow FOV might be harder to locate targets.

Sorry, I can't help you with a scope decision, but thought the scopecam info might help.  Good luck, I'm thinking about my first FFP scope for the Prophet 2.

[Yogi]

18X is not very high magnification.
Riton X7 Conquer 3-18x50, may not be enough to really fill the frame?

-Y

[starlingassassin]

fyi,arken is still having a sale on the sh4 gen2
scopes,
6-24x50 for $299 ,
no scope ive had at even twice that price has ever even come close to the arken in ANY way.

that said, i pick,
a tiny bit of A,
i will just ever so slightly crop the video to make sure the crosshairs are centered on the screen.

a little bit of B,
i use my phone (galaxy s10+) to record through a side shot scopecam phone mount,i run the pro video mode on the camera shooting in fhd at 60fps,
and only zoom it to 4x,
which fills up the screen nicely.

and a big chunk of C,
i run my arken on 18x pretty much all the time for scopecam-ing,
and it makes the intended target nice and close in the video.

[mobilehomer]

You want the most clear, sharp image you can get. That takes a great scope and even better camera. If you need a larger picture, zoom in in post production. The results will be much better.

[JungleShooter]

Thanks for your comments and ideas.

● Yeah, I agree with the general gist of some posts: "buying high quality components will result in a high quality end product....!"
 
● However, the dilemma is not:  "What are the highest quality components?"
Instead:  "Where are the places to cut corners when the budget doesn't allow "highest quality"?  😄 


🔸 I already have the scope cams, so that component is already set:
A Tactacam and a Firefly. (I made sure to hide the fly swatters we usually use in my home. You can't be too careful.)
🔸 For the Firefly I made sure I got a scope adapter with a prism that directs a high percentage of light to the camera, and less to the shooter's eye (I think, mine is 70%/30%, similar to one of the scope adapters that EagleVision offers).


🔸 The issue of having a wide field of view I already have in view. Usually, I want about 28ft (@100y) FoV, and I don't foresee myself buying a 6-24x some of which have a FoV of 22ft or 19ft. dd


🔸 Like someone mentioned, it is my objective to buy a scope with a large large objective lens to get more light to the camera. So, I would avoid a 5-25x50 and rather get a 5-25x56.
However, the diameter of the scope tube has nothing to do with how bright the scope image is. It does, however, provide more elevation adjustment, and yes, I want that. 👍🏼


Well, I'm still on the fence about the scope purchase.
Any more ideas about the particular questions in the OP?
Can you find any flaws in my thinking? 👍🏼


Thanks, and have a good start into the week! 😊
Matthias

[mobilehomer]

 🔶 Goal:
 I want to record and edit my shots in such a way that the quarry is very large — so large it pretty much fills the frame.

I stand by my statement. Since you want to edit, the BEST solution is not the most magnification. It is the BEST image you can start with. You can get a high magnification image that looks like garbage when enlarged to fill the frame. Or you can get a really good/great image that still looks good when enlarged. So regardless of the path you choose, you MUST begin with high quality images. Something else, the higher the magnification, the narrower the FOV. The best place to cut corners would be the mount. And then, not much.

[Yogi]

 
● However, the dilemma is not:  "What are the highest quality components?"
Instead:  "Where are the places to cut corners when the budget doesn't allow "highest quality"?  😄 

Thanks, and have a good start into the week! 😊
Matthias

Well why don't you wait until you can buy the best components?  Everything else will just be a compromise.  Compromises make nobody happy!
Do it right the first time, is my motto...

-Y

[JungleShooter]

Well, there is a time and a place to splurge $$.
Post-corona might not be it.

But yes, in general that principle is good — if a hobby or a job is really important to a person — then one should probably go by the principle, "Do it right the first time."


That would probably be — at double and a half the price — the Riton X7 Conquer4-32x56 FFP. 

Yeah, four digit scope prices will be hard to explain to my wife, after all, this is not my occupation, it's just a frivolous hobby....! 😄 (But such an exciting hobby!!)



In another thread someone suggested I get closer to my quarry. THAT is a strategy that hadn't ocurred to me — it's so simple...! 😄 Shooting powerful PCP's on pests makes range almost a non-issue, so yeah, I should work on my fieldcraft (and farmcraft) to sneak up on my prey. 👍🏼


🔸 I think I will hit the Place-in-Cart button on the Continental 4-24x56.
Reasoning: The Riton 3-18x starts out with a higher quality image — but needs to get magnified from 18x to 24x for a fair comparison.
And I think/ estimate/ assume the Riton image quality loss from that enlarging will end me up with an image of lower quality than a Continental image taken directly at 24x (with no digital enlarging needed).
Bonus: The 24x of the Continental will serve me well for long range shooting.
Bonus: The Continental is almost 10 ounces lighter! For a hunting rig not an unimportant benefit.



Thank you all!
And happy Black-Friday shopping! 😊

Matthias

[customcutter]

Well, there is a time and a place to splurge $$.
Post-corona might not be it.

But yes, in general that principle is good — if a hobby or a job is really important to a person — then one should probably go by the principle, "Do it right the first time."


That would probably be — at double and a half the price — the Riton X7 Conquer4-32x56 FFP. 

Yeah, four digit scope prices will be hard to explain to my wife, after all, this is not my occupation, it's just a frivolous hobby....! 😄 (But such an exciting hobby!!)



In another thread someone suggested I get closer to my quarry. THAT is a strategy that hadn't ocurred to me — it's so simple...! 😄 Shooting powerful PCP's on pests makes range almost a non-issue, so yeah, I should work on my fieldcraft (and farmcraft) to sneak up on my prey. 👍🏼


🔸 I think I will hit the Place-in-Cart button on the Continental 4-24x56.
Reasoning: The Riton 3-18x starts out with a higher quality image — but needs to get magnified from 18x to 24x for a fair comparison.
And I think/ estimate/ assume the Riton image quality loss from that enlarging will end me up with an image of lower quality than a Continental image taken directly at 24x (with no digital enlarging needed).
Bonus: The 24x of the Continental will serve me well for long range shooting.
Bonus: The Continental is almost 10 ounces lighter! For a hunting rig not an unimportant benefit.



Thank you all!
And happy Black-Friday shopping! 😊

Matthias

Matthias,  the reason I asked about what type of scopecam you were considering is because of the camera lens.  IIRC you stated here or AGN that you are using a Firefly.  I'm not sure but I think that is a 12mm lens.  It is also 90* to what you are seeing in the scope.  If you replace the lens with a 16mm or longer lens it will greatly magnify the image on the camera view without a digital "grainy" effect. 

By replacing the lens you have 2 benefits.  A wider field of view with a lower power scope, also you get a larger recorded image without using digital zoom or cropping when editing.

Good luck!

[JungleShooter]

Firefly: I'm not sure but I think that is a 12mm lens.  It is also 90° to what you are seeing in the scope.  If you replace the lens with a 16mm or longer lens it will greatly magnify the image on the camera view without a digital "grainy" effect.

By replacing the lens you have 2 benefits. A wider field of view with a lower power scope, also you get a larger recorded image without using digital zoom or cropping when editing.
Good luck!

Ken, 

now THAT's the revelation I've been hoping to receive....! 😄
THANK YOU!!

Yeah, nobody has explained this.... Anywhere....
They all just state that one of the versions of the Firefly comes with a 90°-lens that works with a scopecam adaptor —
this 90°-lens and the price seem to be the only big differences in comparison with the GoPro.


The GoPro, everybody states, requires an expensive new lens, and the hassle of replacing it, and it costs more. Yes, true. But I wished they had explained, like you, the benefit of having just the right angled lens for scopcaming.... E.g.:

NOBODY has explained that the Firefly lens angle (90°) "works" — but that (most likely) the aftermarket lens of the  GoPro has problably a much better angle (less than 90°).
This results in less zoom necessary (either scope "optical zoom", or camera digital zoom, or editing software digital "cropping-zoom").


Note, that if I understood correctly, the 12mm or 16mm or whatever focal length does not really mean much without stating which sensor it has, so comparing focal length only works if the sensor is similar. But the angle (90° or smaller) is a spec that is comparable.


Thanks again, now that I haven't even mounted the Firefly I'm wondering if I "need" a GoPro with replacement lens.... 🤦🏻‍♂️ 
(I better not, let's see how it does — since Erlis/ IguanaHunter uses a Firefly for incredibly sharp footage, I might be going overboard....)



⭐ Our forum is great. Thank you. This was a critical piece of understanding scopecaming that I had missed till today. 👍🏼

Matthias

[customcutter]

Matthias, you are most welcome!  I tried to explain it in my earlier post, but sometimes it doesn't quite come across the way we want.  LOL  If you change the lens, it may change the focal point.  Look up my thread on my DIY scope cam.  (I posted it here first and posted it again over on the AGN forum, so reading both might help with the explaination of how I did it and how it works.  I've got a few videos posted here and over there also.  Just learning so don't be too critical. )  You will notice that the piece coming off the side is about 2" long going to the camera.  The piece coming off of the camera housing is about 2" long also and fits inside the other piece.  That way I had from 2-4" to adjust the distance the camera was from the prism reflecting 70% light to the camera.  Of course I could also cut it down shorter if needed, but it's much harder to make it longer.

If you have any questions post them on any thread I've posted on.  This one, or the DIY scopecam thread is probably best.  Or you can DM, but sharing the info is harder to do in a DM with others that might be interested.

Good luck, Ken