I'm eyeing an artemis p15 in 177

[BC81]

Like stated, im thinking about picking one up from krale. They have the 177 and 25s in stock. I won't go 25, theyre known for issues. The 177 sounds great and I've seen vids on them. I wouldn't mind it in 22, but they're out of stock.
Are there any current owners of this pup that can tell me if it's worth the $500+ to buy it and have it shipped here? What's the FPE these things put out? I just like the looks and size of these little buggers.

[customcutter]

I own a KAM P-12.  Before they were SPA, Artemis, Snowpeak.  I recently converted it to a multi-shot from a single shot.   Personally, I would get the P-35, the cocking lever (not a bolt action) is forward over the trigger area.  I was actually going to buy one when I got a good deal on an AEA HP Carbine.  Of coarse they may not have it in stock right now, I know it was out of stock last time I checked.

Aaron Cantrell has a good review on his YT channel.  I'm sure there are others.

[BC81]

I own a KAM P-12.  Before they were SPA, Artemis, Snowpeak.  I recently converted it to a multi-shot from a single shot.   Personally, I would get the P-35, the cocking lever (not a bolt action) is forward over the trigger area.  I was actually going to buy one when I got a good deal on an AEA HP Carbine.  Of coarse they may not have it in stock right now, I know it was out of stock last time I checked.

Aaron Cantrell has a good review on his YT channel.  I'm sure there are others.

I've watched a few of his videos and thats partly what got me interested in them. The artemis is a side lever, I don't know if the older ones were a bolt action or not. I had an AEA Challenger in 25 it was a beast but kinda big and heavy, also was a side bolt and not easy to cock while shouldered. The p35 just doesn't do it for me looks wise. I had a puncher breaker for a but, but didn't like the feel of it much, and it was anything but silent lol. I had a Sumo on it which tamed the bark, but then it made it longer than I liked.

Actually I'm thinking the M40, I don't like the curve of the thumbole area of the stock. The p35 is tolerable in the looks department. Im currently making a 2260 pcp bullpup with a shrouded barrel and 8 shot breech, but I'm having trouble with the feeding of the mags with most pellets. The probe isn't long enough to really seat the pellet into the rifling so the accuracy isn't the best. It only gets quarter sized groups at 25 yards with 18.13 pellets. It doesn't like anything else and those hang up too sometimes.

[RunsOnAir]

Removed. 

[Airgunhunter73]

I have a P15 22 bought it new from Mike at Mrodair back in 2016 it's always been accurate with good power and lite about 6 pounds with scope, only problem I've had was a few oring leaks and the bleed off for the air tube easy fixes I've always wanted one in 177 just never got around to buying one.

[BC81]

I have a P15 22 bought it new from Mike at Mrodair back in 2016 it's always been accurate with good power and lite about 6 pounds with scope, only problem I've had was a few oring leaks and the bleed off for the air tube easy fixes I've always wanted one in 177 just never got around to buying one.

I've considered waiting til the 22 is back in stock but with the current state of the world, that might not be a possibility. They were out of stock for awhile, even the extra mags are out for 177. I know Karm sells them so I may go that route if I buy one.
You say you had some leaks, I assume they were easy to fix? I've built plenty of disco based guns and fixed other air guns and in general am a tinkered and a certified mechanic so I'm sure it'll be an easy task. Are parts for these easy to come by?

[Ribbonstone]

Haven’t been disappointing… relatively simple, solid construction, maybe a little more complicated to get apart than I care for….but no complaints about it working. 

Have not yet needed a factory part….o-rings do die, but can usually locally source them.  Someone else will have to comment about finding factory parts. 

In many ways, we (as posters) are fickle beta-testers.  Rush to a new toy, praise the new toy (mostly because it’s new), shoot it, adjust it, mod it….then about 4-6 months later, complain about what it doesn’t have some feature that even newer toy does.

Can think of mods as complaints...ways of trying to get an airgun to do what you wanted it to do.

Lack of posts doesn’t really equate to a bad performance, just that the forum’s active poster’s don’t have anything new to say about a well researched air gun.  There is no “got there first” ego-stroke.

Likely many of the P15’s sold are still owned, shot, liked...maybe not by the original buyer, who is likely 4 or 5 “new toys” farther along in the addiction.

[BC81]

You are correct Ribbonstone, it's super addicting. I keep finding reasons to buy another one! Or modify my current ones... over and over.

[Ribbonstone]

It will pass once you fill up all the storage places for the older ones that are too useful to sell/trade.

[Airgunhunter73]

I have found mine to be fairly easy to work on replacing the orings it's a little time consuming but I haven't had it apart in along time, I had thought about buying the newer P35 in 177 because of the forward placement of the charging handle but as you said hard to get one.

[JimD]

I bought a P35 in October of last year.  I got delivery in less than a week which I was pretty happy with.  It did not leak, still doesn't, and worked right out of the box.  The P35 is a newer model with the forward cocking lever.  That was key to me because I am left eye dominant and shoot from the left shoulder.  So the P15 cocking lever would be right in my face.  But if you shoot right handed as you evidently do, either should work.

I watch P15 videos to see how to do things and most things are the same on my P35 so the guns are very, very, similar except for the cocking.  I found the trigger to be too heavy stock but there is a sear engagement screw with a lock nut available if you remove the stock.  I adjusted that and it is OK now.  It is still heavier than my Avenger (which I modified to get to it's current level) and my Prod (unmodified).  But it is OK. 

The P15 is eight tenths of a pound lighter than the P35.  Some is the cocking but the stock is also a big part of it I suspect.  The P15 has a wood stock and the P35 has a pretty heavy plastic stock. 

Barrels are 450mm long.  I wouldn't mind another 100mm but the ~18 inch barrel is key to it's under 30 inch length.  The pellet push piece is a hollow tube, that is different.  Doesn't really cause problems.  The SPA magazine on mine is not great, sometimes I have to fiddle with the cocking lever to get it to load.  CARM makes magazines for the 177 and 22 and I bet they work better.

My 25 caliber likes H&N FTTs which weigh just over 20 grains - they are really light for a lead 25 caliber pellet.  I think the rated velocity in 25 is 800 fps.  With the regulator set where it came, I got close to 900 fps (like 895).  I turned it down a quarter turn and am still at 850 fps or so.  I think the rated velocities may be a bit conservative, they were for my gun.

The regulator of mine gives me good to great ES and standard deviation.  Sometimes the first shot velocity is about 15 fps lower than the rest of the string.  But I still get a ES under 20 fps when that happens.  My ES on my Avenger is sometimes over 30 fps.  When my first shot velocity is not low, I get a ES of 10 or less.  I think that is great for a gun at this price point. 

The regulator is a lot less accessable than it is on my Avenger.  You have to use the tool that comes with the gun to screw off the pressure gauge and if the end of the air chamber does not come with it you then have to unscrew that.  There are O-rings on each and they will probably need changed if you take it apart.  You get at least one spare with the gun.  Then you need to use a 12mm socket on a long extension to loosen the lock nut and a long straight blade screw driver to move the regulator.  You have to degass the gun first, of course.  So it is very possible to do but probably not something you will mess with a lot.  Hammer spring is right on the outside at the back of the air chamber.  Very easy to adjust. 

The shroud of the P15/35 is one of the best features in my opinion.  It comes with 7 thin aluminum baffles.  That made my gun about 85 db at 15 feet.  But I followed the guidance of Aaron Cantrell and purchased some cheap hair rollers and felt and modified this by inserting half hair curlers wrapped in felt and reducing the baffles to 3 or 4.  That cuts the noise by 10-15 db.  For almost nothing.  3 requires making the gun 1/2 inch longer, 4 makes it 1.5 inches longer.  I use 3 because the noise from what I shoot is louder than the gun, even with three.  No need at all for a $100 moderator.  Gun stays short.

I find it hard to shoot small groups at the bench with this gun.  I have shot as small as 1/8 inch at 25 yards but if I do not really concentrate I may shoot a 3/4 inch group.  I just got a printed piece that slips over the air chamber so I can attach a bipod.  That setup seems to be working better for me.  I think it's the short length of the gun and maybe the fact that the trigger is not super light.  I find my Prod tougher to shoot well from the bench than my Avenger.  All will shoot 1/4 inch groups at 25 yards if I do my part.  I have not had any difficulty hitting squirrels in the head with my P35.

There is a lot more metal in my P35 than there is in my Avenger.  The Avenger uses plastic end pieces on the shroud, for instance.  P35 is metal.  I have not had it completely apart but I have taken most of it apart and it seems well made.  Mine had a small obstruction in the barrel port, however, and I gained 15 fps when I removed it.  In general the fit and finish is good but you may find an exception like this.  At this price point I was not super surprised. 

Hope this helps.  My P35 is my favorite airgun.  I plan to buy another in 22.  The combination of short, light, quiet with good power is great.

Jim

[BC81]

Awesome post Jim, making me really want one now. Most of my shooting is 30-40 yards. I have some 2260 pcps I've built that stack pellets at that distance, one in 177 with 18 inch barrel, the other in 22 with 16 inch barrel. I just want something more compact with a reg that actually works. I would go with 25 caliber in the p15 but I've read so many posts about how horrible the accuracy is out of the box, makes me nervous to get one in that caliber.

[MB]

+1 on the P35 it's 95% a P15 just with a plastic stock and center cocking

[ranchibi]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115272147988?hash=item1ad6c16414:g:P9QAAOSw7FFiBdWH

There is an M40 .22 on ebay with one day to bid...bid is at 329.

[JimD]

I think my 25s stop squirrels a little quicker than my much lower power Prod.  But it worked fine once I upped the power to about 17 fpe.  I am thinking a P15 or P35 in 22 could easily make 25 fpe, it probably could make 35.  But at 25 it should have a pretty flat trajectory and plenty of power for small game.  It really depends on what pellet it prefers.  I will want it shooting 800-900 fps so the weight of the pellet will determine the fpe. 

Big advantages of the 22 is cost of ammunition (about half) and the fact I can use it on public game lands in SC where I live.  My plan is to get a P35 in 22 once Krale has them in stock. 

My P35 was pretty accurate with H&N FTT, H&N Slug HPs and JSB heavies from the start.  I think the difference between them might have been me.  It was not as pellet fussy as my Avenger (also a 25).  I've polished the barrel and barrel port and tried to clean up the crown but it is recessed and I'm not sure I really did anything to it.  I might have reduced fliers a bit but I think they are mostly from me.  I don't think I need to clean it as often.  But out of the box accuracy was similar to my Avenger and Prod.  Better than the Prod and worse than the Avenger but all three are about equal now.    The other two did not get the barrel work and improved when my shot count through the barrel got up around 1000 shots.  I fire polished my P35 with some JBs when I was still testing pellets so it got some polish pretty early.  Later I removed the barrel and did some more (barrel is very easy to remove and you do not need to degass).

[Killfire]

I have both a P12 and P15 in .22. Definitely get the  CARM mags as they're way better than the OEM. My P15 required a new barrel as pellets would freefall 3/4 of the way down the length. I also had regulator creep so that got replaced as well. Bought an airfective (sp?) Baffle kit with a donny fl tatsu that made it extremely quiet and built an ssg. I dont seem to have a full chrono shot string of it but I'm getting 30fpe with JSB 18's. P12 is reged as well with an ssg and gets 60 shots with CPHP at 950fps and a 20es.

[Pelletjunkie]

Haven’t been disappointing… relatively simple, solid construction, maybe a little more complicated to get apart than I care for….but no complaints about it working. 

Have not yet needed a factory part….o-rings do die, but can usually locally source them.  Someone else will have to comment about finding factory parts. 

In many ways, we (as posters) are fickle beta-testers.  Rush to a new toy, praise the new toy (mostly because it’s new), shoot it, adjust it, mod it….then about 4-6 months later, complain about what it doesn’t have some feature that even newer toy does.

Can think of mods as complaints...ways of trying to get an airgun to do what you wanted it to do.

Lack of posts doesn’t really equate to a bad performance, just that the forum’s active poster’s don’t have anything new to say about a well researched air gun.  There is no “got there first” ego-stroke.

Likely many of the P15’s sold are still owned, shot, liked...maybe not by the original buyer, who is likely 4 or 5 “new toys” farther along in the addiction.

You bring up some good points but left out one. Some of us just got tired of warning guys about them. The stuff that comes out of that factory is just so inconsistent so it just boils down to luck. Some of us still have our P15’s because we have 2 or 3 times in the gun versus what it’s worth. Most of the guys I communicated with while we tried to fix them have moved on to just plain old better guns. No more $500 project guns with bad crowns, bad leades, bad mags, screws made of butter, regs that take 3 pounds of pellets to settle, and so on. Like I said before, if Taipan, Edgun, Kalibrgun or even possibly Kral built the P15 or Skyhawk, it would be a winner.

[BC81]

Haven’t been disappointing… relatively simple, solid construction, maybe a little more complicated to get apart than I care for….but no complaints about it working. 

Have not yet needed a factory part….o-rings do die, but can usually locally source them.  Someone else will have to comment about finding factory parts. 

In many ways, we (as posters) are fickle beta-testers.  Rush to a new toy, praise the new toy (mostly because it’s new), shoot it, adjust it, mod it….then about 4-6 months later, complain about what it doesn’t have some feature that even newer toy does.

Can think of mods as complaints...ways of trying to get an airgun to do what you wanted it to do.

Lack of posts doesn’t really equate to a bad performance, just that the forum’s active poster’s don’t have anything new to say about a well researched air gun.  There is no “got there first” ego-stroke.

Likely many of the P15’s sold are still owned, shot, liked...maybe not by the original buyer, who is likely 4 or 5 “new toys” farther along in the addiction.

You bring up some good points but left out one. Some of us just got tired of warning guys about them. The stuff that comes out of that factory is just so inconsistent so it just boils down to luck. Some of us still have our P15’s because we have 2 or 3 times in the gun versus what it’s worth. Most of the guys I communicated with while we tried to fix them have moved on to just plain old better guns. No more $500 project guns with bad crowns, bad leades, bad mags, screws made of butter, regs that take 3 pounds of pellets to settle, and so on. Like I said before, if Taipan, Edgun, Kalibrgun or even possibly Kral built the P15 or Skyhawk, it would be a winner.

This is what I'm concerned about. I've seen alot of older posts on the forums about people sinking 500+ into repairs and replacement parts. I love the looks of this pup, but I'm skeptical of buying it for the price and rolling the dice. My 2260 with 16" barrel and 3000 psi fill, .125" port will stack pellets all day out to 30 yards or farther and gets 25 fpe for 25 shots. It took some tuning to get there obviously, but its my go to rifle. Have taken 100s of birds and squirrels over the 5 years I've had it built. It's not pellet picky, lightweight, and reliable. It compact enough, but I want a little smaller and a repeater setup that's not pellet picky. I have a grav mag for it, just don't like that it won't fit in its hard case with that attached. My 1760 pcp is laser accurate too for 30 shots at 16 fpe. I will never part with these rifles.
Maybe I'll sit on the fence for awhile. $500 is alot to gamble on getting a good one with no factory support or readily available parts. Hmmm....
I may just save up and get a Taipan veteran compact or FX wildcat.

[Racing]

@ Pelletjunkie
Kral DOES make a decent pup to my knowledge?

Anyways.
I own a P15 too and my advice would be to get an already hotroded one. As noted the P15 has been around for a while rendering that many many have been modified to hearts content.
As for the "oh the 35´s got the way better lever placement", well there´s kits to handle that too for the P15.

Both are very light rifles, make no mistake. As in VERY light. Mine i bought used sporting a LW barrel slightly longer, incl carbon shroud n yadda yadda down to the mags that all tout.
Happy?
Very actually. With the LW barrel a very very accurate little 22. Would have loved one in 25 but as noted above.



It is an older design though why utmost power isn´t really on the agenda. For most. I grew tired of the rather mundane looking stock and have since basically gone ape on the thing.
Idea here is to up power, as in UP power. Thus mine is currently undergoing rather extensive mods. Has made me run into a few issues i didn´t expect, but.. getting there.
Design goal, on my behalf, is to hit 100J. Then using 30+ grain slugs (use my collection of PCP´s for rodent control mainly).

Why the P15 over the P35 then? One word.
Wood.
At first i didn´t really care as far as stock material, these days however.. no more synthetics for this guy. Difference in feel alone.. To each his own tho, and that´s my take on the matter.

For more or less stockers getting them to hand you 40J in 22cal is simple. Real simple. Pushing mine has been, and is, a learning experience no doubt.

TBH though, albeit an old design, it carries lots of merit as i see it. It´s weight, being as compact and so on - all features far from all have come to put forth to this day.
What that hands you, from a practical POW, is a rifle that gets used. It´s weight at first something that about annoyed me but as the thing grew on me these days one of its true assets. Mine i run a 6-24*50 on or an old Yukon for night work. If there´s one thing i´m going to alter what´s more it´s the cheek rest.
That stock plastic thingy, no more. Got a good stock of old walnut standing around so, not an issue really.

I´ll post a project thread as i get further down with it. Loads have been done already as is but i want to "see the finish line" before putting a thread up on it.



On that note though, reaching that with regular 25,4 Knock outs is rather simple.

[JimD]

With only one SPA in my collection I can't really say a lot about the quality of their manufacture.  As I noted, they left a burr in the barrel port that I removed and gained a little fps.  The inside of the steel block the trigger group is in was also a little rough on mine.  But it did not affect function.  SPA at least claims to be the biggest airgun manufacturer in the world, however.  They make a lot of airguns branded with somebody else's name.  The selling supplier probably does some QC that may help their guns quality but if SPA consistently make junk, I don't think they would keep their contracts with other airgun suppliers.

My Avenger leaked from day one.  It got fixed under warranty.  Krale does not warrant the P35 in the U. S. but is reportedly very good about taking guns back that show up with an issue like leaking so there may be a recourse.  The source said he even got them to cover return shipping.  I plan to roll the dice a second time.  But I can understand how somebody that got "a bad one" could have a different view.  I've read of people needing initial repairs on FX guns too.  A SPA is not a FX but I think an issue is possible for a lot of brands.  Best way to avoid it is probably to buy from a smaller supplier that will throughly test and even tune your new gun.  But that comes at a price, of course. 

All I can do at the moment is talk about getting another one, Krale is not projecting having any until mid year.  That seems to be another drawback of this supplier.  I guess they keep too busy making guns for other suppliers.