249-39-RF-E6 Mold DAR .25

[Greg_E]

I would not go anything more abrasive than White Diamond polish that you can get at many auto stores and Walmart, Homedepot, etc. It starts to cut steel really fast, so brass would not take long to polish out 0.001 inch. You could probably use a felt plug to accomplish this task. This is my current favorite to polish barrels, though I sometimes still need more aggressive pastes for buffing wheels. there are a few different options for buffing wheel paste at Harbor Freight, the Black cuts pretty fast, but they have more and less aggressive too, don't remember which color is which, I think green and grey are the other two that I have.

[Spacebus]

I would not go anything more abrasive than White Diamond polish that you can get at many auto stores and Walmart, Homedepot, etc. It starts to cut steel really fast, so brass would not take long to polish out 0.001 inch. You could probably use a felt plug to accomplish this task. This is my current favorite to polish barrels, though I sometimes still need more aggressive pastes for buffing wheels. there are a few different options for buffing wheel paste at Harbor Freight, the Black cuts pretty fast, but they have more and less aggressive too, don't remember which color is which, I think green and grey are the other two that I have.

I live an hour from any box store, but I do have a Napa, True Value, and an Advance Auto nearby and I'll be in town today. However, I'm really hesitant to polish/hone/lap the mold myself.

Someone on the NOE forum suggested I add some tin to the melt to get the slugs heavier, but how much tin per pound of pure lead? I don't mind getting a lighter slug and 10-15% lighter would honestly be ideal.

I am basically asking for this formula: X% lead + Y% tin = 85-90% of the weight cast in pure lead. My weight in pure lead is 36.5 grain, and 32-ish grain would put me in the ideal weight for my Eagle Claw.

Being able to size the slugs to .251" would be the best thing for my setup.

[Greg_E]

20:1 is a common alloy, but for airguns I'm not sure yet. I need to experiment before I can recommend anything because I've messed it up bigtime before. 40:1 might be safer, or even 100:1. Thing is, if you start at 100:1, you can cast a few and decide. If not good toss them back in and add more tin. With 20:1 there is no removing tin so starting with a small amount is probably best.

[Spacebus]

20:1 is a common alloy, but for airguns I'm not sure yet. I need to experiment before I can recommend anything because I've messed it up bigtime before. 40:1 might be safer, or even 100:1. Thing is, if you start at 100:1, you can cast a few and decide. If not good toss them back in and add more tin. With 20:1 there is no removing tin so starting with a small amount is probably best.

The few slugs I've cast in pure tin are plenty soft enough to shoot out of the airgun, but they don't deform much when hitting soft materials, and just make flat spots when hitting steel. I need to size them down for my .25 cal Bandito carbine, they are way too big for the bore and load hard. Fair accuracy at 25 yards out of the eagle claw slowed down a bit. Need to do more testing with a scope and sizing to see if I can shrink the group down smaller than 1"

I'll start at 1% and work my way up. I have plenty of recovered pure tin slugs, so easy to add to the mix. 20:1 is still just around 5%.

So 5% of 36.5 is 1.825

36.5 - 1.825 = 34.675 grains of pure lead, leaving that 1.825 5% which is actually 1.1 grains of pure tin. 34.675 + 1.1 = 35.77 or a 2% reduction in weight.

5% tin added to pure lead theoretically brings down the cast weight by 2% according to my math.

25% tin should bring down cast weight by approximately 10%, theoretically. I suspect this may affect accuracy in a negative way, but I don't know for sure. I read on a casting thread where Bob (Rsterne) adds tin to get slugs to a desired weight.

1% tin is probably a negligible difference, less than .5% of the weight, but might be the solution for people that don't want harder slugs. I'll probably start here and move up to 5% if the sizing is still poor. Really I'd like the option to size the slugs down a little bit rather than struggle to get them up to an acceptable as cast size.

I am not opposed to hard slugs by any means, a passthrough is more preferable to me than possibly eating lead fragments or having a slower death for the animal. I wouldn't use the slugs from this mold for hunting anyway, I want to use them for 50+ yard target shooting. For hunting my plan is to use the BBT mold with the huge meplat, basically a semi-wadcutter, but they drop at an appropriate size in lead. I haven't shot any yet, due to weather, but they aren't going to be going as fast as I'd like for shooting at long range. I will size some to .251" and leave some as cast (.2515"+) and see if there is any difference in accuracy.

Really I'd prefer to only cast in lead free metals, but I have only had enough time to cast the .25 42g BBTs in tin so far. I need to order more tin and keep a little bit separate just for adding to lead slugs, but I do have a lot of recovered .177, .22, and .25 off the shelf lead free pellets I plan to melt together and try in my pellet molds. I suspect I won't get any of the slug molds to shoot really tight groups past 25 yards without being primarily lead, but I'm hoping to get at least 2MOA at 50 yards, an acceptable group size for vital shots on medium and large game. Yeah, large game because I'd like to figure out a good lead free alloy that works in my .45 cal Challenger as well. 50 yards max is all I ask for out of lead free. I'm hoping to at least be able to get acceptable groups at 25 yards with my own .25 cal cast tin pellets for dealing with homestead predators, as the only game I really am interested in hunting is deer. Otherwise I'm target shooting, hunting small game has little draw for me.

This post got really long, but my wife is bored to tears when I talk about this 😂🤣

[Firewalker]

Just use metal polish to Beagle your mold. Cast a single slug with the sprue plate opened and have a thin brass rod that's been tinned in the mold, as centered and straight up as possible.

Coat the slug with metal polish, put the slug in the mold but leave it open enough to freely spin the slug.

Start SLOOOW with the drill turning the rod and slowly close the mold.

Do this for a second, clean and repeat after measuring the new slug.

[Spacebus]

I will probably contact a machine shop before trying it myself. If these rain clouds ever pass I'm going to try to cast some 20:1 or even 4:1 and see how that goes. If that doesn't work and I can't get a machine shop to help me out I'll just have to do it myself or just PC the slugs and be happy.

[Greg_E]

Have you looked at Bismuth yet? Not sure what kind of results you'd get though, and not sure if you can use it in aluminum or brass molds, might be steel only (and I forget which you have). I have not tried it, but eventually we better be prepared because lead will eventually be outlawed. Surprised California hasn't outlawed it for airguns yet, like they did for hunting with firearms.

Off topic, but can muzzle loaders still use lead when hunting in California?

[Spacebus]

Have you looked at Bismuth yet? Not sure what kind of results you'd get though, and not sure if you can use it in aluminum or brass molds, might be steel only (and I forget which you have). I have not tried it, but eventually we better be prepared because lead will eventually be outlawed. Surprised California hasn't outlawed it for airguns yet, like they did for hunting with firearms.

Off topic, but can muzzle loaders still use lead when hunting in California?

The bismuth alloys are a bit too hard for air guns, but I've read a review on the Rotometals Amazon listing for their Bismuth based lead free casting alloy that says they had great success with their .457 Texan. It's a bit more dense than tin, and should offer ballistics closer to pure lead.

I just personally don't want to sprinkle lead all over my property, or even in a centralized berm. I do my best to trap and re-use all of the lead I shoot, but I would love to not even have to worry about it at all. Casting in pure tin or lead free alloys is still cheaper than shooting cartridge based guns.

[Firewalker]

I will probably contact a machine shop before trying it myself. If these rain clouds ever pass I'm going to try to cast some 20:1 or even 4:1 and see how that goes. If that doesn't work and I can't get a machine shop to help me out I'll just have to do it myself or just PC the slugs and be happy.

DUH! Yes, PC would solve that for you! Why didn't I think of that? 

[Spacebus]

I will probably contact a machine shop before trying it myself. If these rain clouds ever pass I'm going to try to cast some 20:1 or even 4:1 and see how that goes. If that doesn't work and I can't get a machine shop to help me out I'll just have to do it myself or just PC the slugs and be happy.

DUH! Yes, PC would solve that for you! Why didn't I think of that? 

I'm just trying to avoid that, mostly because it's another added step. I guess I could try it today while the threat of rain is too high to risk it casting. I have a box of all the supplies sitting in my attic.

[Spacebus]

coated slugs are cooling down now. It wasn't too bad, and the worst part was getting the slugs onto my silicone mat to put in the oven. My oven is also our old countertop convection oven with a super noisy fan, it sounds like it is gas powered 🤣 I feel like eventually that fan will self clearance and quiet down before dying entirely. When that happens I'll get a cheap toaster oven from the local second hand store. I might even be able to use the hard-ish Rotometals Bismuth based casting alloy if I PC everything...

[Spacebus]

I might be a convert to PC. Normally I lube my cast ammo with silicone oil or grease, but I love that the PC slugs are already lubed, not sticky or slick, and they don't make a mess. The slugs that measured .2490-.2495" before coating shot super accurately today. I am waiting on a new chronograph, but I would assume these slugs are moving over 950 FPS since I was doing 990 FPS with 33.5 grain slugs. I would like to be closer to 1000-1050 FPS, but I'll take 950+.

Next time I cast I'll be adding some tin and trying to get the weight down to 33-ish grain and see if they maintain accuracy.

The 40.4 grn 252-42-FN slugs are moving about 850 FPS and hit just a touch low from the 249-39 slugs. I estimate they are moving 850-900 FPS based on performance from a similar slug from an MP mold. These are easy to cast and gave me 1" groups at 25 yards in pure tin. Eventually I'll have a functioning chronograph and can give some actual numbers, but I'm quite pleased with how my cast ammo is turning out.

[Firewalker]

I don't share this so please keep this a a secret but you can make a lanolin based bullet lube that makes sizing even PC slugs a dream and you don't dimple the base with LEE sizers or ring the points with other sizers.

It also doesn't foul barrels on airguns.

[Greg_E]

I don't share this so please keep this a a secret but you can make a lanolin based bullet lube that makes sizing even PC slugs a dream and you don't dimple the base with LEE sizers or ring the points with other sizers.

It also doesn't foul barrels on airguns.

You mean something like this https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/lanolin-alcohol-sizing-lube-recipes.6900060/

I have some other stuff to try, supposed to be like alox but dries so no mess. Was around $26 for 32 ounces which should last a very long time. Probably going to test it on 50 cal rounds that drop right on size.

[Firewalker]

I don't share this so please keep this a a secret but you can make a lanolin based bullet lube that makes sizing even PC slugs a dream and you don't dimple the base with LEE sizers or ring the points with other sizers.

It also doesn't foul barrels on airguns.

You mean something like this https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/lanolin-alcohol-sizing-lube-recipes.6900060/

I have some other stuff to try, supposed to be like alox but dries so no mess. Was around $26 for 32 ounces which should last a very long time. Probably going to test it on 50 cal rounds that drop right on size.

SHOOT! Didn't I say it was a secret? Now everybody will know! 

Yes, that is the old Midway Spray-n-Size lube recipe. It works so well for cases that many of tried it for bullets and it work better than the liquid alox but it cleans off with simple alcohol so you can PC them after cleaning. LA is on FOR GOOD!

[Firewalker]

I cast up a few tins of these yesterday since I had the day off.

I did a real hard cull and tossed a lot back into the pot. I checked the pins and found a loose holder, some spruplate gap and blasted the cavities with brake cleaner. That helped a lot.

Still not getting nose fillout, I hit the base of the mold with the torch, opened up the pour nozzle on the pot and snuggled the mold up to the nozzle just a few mm away and shot lead hard into the cavity.

I got good fillout but some flash around the nose, backed off to 1 cm and got good castings.

I weighed several slugs and found them to hoover at 35.5gr, I then sprayed a light coat of Balistol on them, rolled around on a towel for a second and tinned them up in old CPHP tins.

I pulled the DAR G3 down and while the slugs chamber well, the G3 just doesn't have the beans to push it past 650 FPS and they keyholed on the target.

Off to the rack with the G3, off to the bench with the AEA Varmint, loaded her up and got almost 900 FPS off a full tank.

It took 30 slugs to foul the barrel but I got .25" groups at 10m in the end. 63 fpe will work just fine for those Whistlepigs. 

[EdinGa]

I finally (and stubbornly) gave up on my bottom pour pots and dusted off the 4lb pot and ladle. My airgun pellets and slugs have never looked better. I could never get the balance right with the bigger pots.

[Back_Roads]

 I need to cast up more of them soon, I have enough to hunt with yet, but burned up a bunch shooting them in my Bull Boss yesterday. I have a range hood that I need to setup for my exhaust system before casting again though.

[Firewalker]

I need to cast up more of them soon, I have enough to hunt with yet, but burned up a bunch shooting them in my Bull Boss yesterday. I have a range hood that I need to setup for my exhaust system before casting again though.

Thanks for the nudge, I need to set up my vent fan too. I moved the pot to the middle window just to have access to venting but never set it up.

Yesterday's session was the first time I cast with the doors closed and it got very smoky. Probably not good for me. 

[rsterne]

For those who weren't in on the original discussion and poll a few months ago, because of the concensus here, Al will be making the next batch of these slugs at 0.251", as they are too small for many guns.... If you need them at 0.249", you can always size them down....

Bob