Melted not lead pellets-under 500 f so TIN

[phoebeisis]

I have been saying that my NOT LEAD pellets were ZINC

I read that somewhere-a Brit site still says it

But Ron told me yesterday that they were TIN- not Zinc-with a MUCH lower melting point than lead of Zinc 

Tin  450 F    232 C

Lead 621 F   327 C

Zinc 787 F  419 C

Good news for me-means I will easily be able to melt-and perhaps cast-Tin pellets- .22 diameter-in higher weights than I can buy

The heaviest all metal NOT LEAD are 9.5 grains H&N  .22- 1010 FPS fast but much gentler feel out of the .22 460 than the 5.2   or 6.6 out of the  .177  350-(1410 fps)

.177 HEAVIEST are H&N  6.6 GRAINS- a very fast  1250 fps    the Daisy flat nose are 5.2 grains  1410 fps-scorching

Anyway I put them in our oven-put it on 500 F-high as it goes

15 minutes -MELTED- Daisy .177 5.2   and SSP crosman 8.7 .22   obviously TIN-and very good news-surprised there was gunk-slag maybe floating  on top

[Roadworthy]

Interesting read, thank you for sharing.  I don't plan to move to non lead pellets but interesting just the same.  The gunk you found floating on top was obviously less dense than the pellet metal.  Perhaps the pellets were coated with something.  You can buy shotgun pellets approximating the density of lead but they're not inexpensive.  I believe bismuth is one of the metals they use.

[ER00z]

Bismuth melting point is about 521°f, or 520°F and change...

My preference may differ from others, but understand the reasoning to use lead free. (No need to go into discussion on what's "better", think it's been fully covered already  )

But...

If one has a pellet mold and recover their non-lead pellets (or lead for other folks), that'll greatly reduce the cost. Given time is available to cast your own. Would like to see further casting and testing if possible. 👍

[Bayman]

Interesting read, thank you for sharing.  I don't plan to move to non lead pellets but interesting just the same.  The gunk you found floating on top was obviously less dense than the pellet metal.  Perhaps the pellets were coated with something.  You can buy shotgun pellets approximating the density of lead but they're not inexpensive.  I believe bismuth is one of the metals they use.

Tungsten is a common material added to things to replace lead. It's denser, much harder and more expensive than lead. I use it when I tie weighted striper flys. Trying to catch stripers 40'+ down requires thin tungsten core sinking line and small heavily weighted flys.  That's where the denser than lead helps a lot.

[phoebeisis]

Thanks all

If I could shoot in my backyard-I would have at least  15 meters shooting at my back door-and  20 meters  if I wanted to shoot diagonally.

I am not sure if it is legal-but would not matter since neighbors would immediately call cops-the Diana's especially look like REAL RIFLES.

Shooting outside all you have to do is wash your hands-all my pellets get caught in my "boxes stuffed with cardboard-" backed by 2  3/4 slabs of wood-

So stuck inside-which is ok- the weather is always good-except for the price and weight of the pellets-I do have to round up the pets-2 cats now-but usually we have dogs-

greyhounds=too-they all get locked in kitchen

Ron-where do you fish that is 40 feet down?? Some lake? I got the impression you were inland-not on a coast-?

When we lived in Penn my dad  would spend the night before a fishing trip tying "rigs" with those old fashioned sorta bowling pin sinkers-2-3 hooks

surf fishing near Atlantic City when it was a beat up looking resort town that had seen better days-he had these impressively long 2 piece rods  to toss it out past the surf

Tungsten bet it is pricy and no way could I melt THAT in my oven!


ER00z-yeah I catch all my pellets-in cardboard shipping boxes-stuffed with 25-25 layers of same cardboard-backed by 2  3/4"    18 x 15" planks of some soft wood

occasionally they-460  350- make it all the way to the wood-  6 cavity .225" mold-Lee- $49-not too bad-55 grains-probably 35 or so in tin-cut at one of the grease grooves

maybe  15- 20 grains-probably can put a half ""a#@%$: skirt on it while still hot-press it in with a bullet maybe-

Real Rube Goldberg but..

Roadworthy-maybe it was an oxide of tin?? It is hard to touch-but has that brittle feel like many surface oxides-

I eyeballed stained glass NOT LEAD solder-it can come as thick wire-but biggest was .125" and safe bet it is waaaay too soft-and the flux-who wants to inhale that?

For now I will probably install the weaker spring I have -see how the shot cycle and report responds to that

My TX200 had a nasty report with the 5.2 grain pellets-but changing the spring to .125  30 coils-from .129 29 coils-really calmed it-and it shoots great-look through scope

"THINK SQUEEZE"and a hole appears right where the crosshairs were- a POOF  sorta report-but the 5.2 still chronographs 1000 fps with 5.2 grain pellets-it certainly would have

been supersonic  with the 5.2 before the spring change

Thanks all

Charlie

[Bayman]

I'm on Long Island and fish the south shore of it. God willing I plan on retiring and moving inland in June 2023. This is fly fishing customer from last December.

[Spacebus]

I got a two pound ingot of pure tin shipped to my house for $60. My plan is to test some tin pellets from the NOE .22 hunter pellet mold and the NOE .25 Wadcutter mold. I can't find much, anything really, on casting pellets or slugs in tin. Theoretically the BC will be higher, but tin seems to call for a faster twist rate than lead. My rifles shoot the H&N and Predator lead free pellets very well, so I'm expecting decent results if my casting skills are good enough.

[dk1677]

moved

[Mr.P]

I got a two pound ingot of pure tin shipped to my house for $60. My plan is to test some tin pellets from the NOE .22 hunter pellet mold and the NOE .25 Wadcutter mold. I can't find much, anything really, on casting pellets or slugs in tin. Theoretically the BC will be higher, but tin seems to call for a faster twist rate than lead. My rifles shoot the H&N and Predator lead free pellets very well, so I'm expecting decent results if my casting skills are good enough.

I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what you find.

[ballisticboy]

I got a two pound ingot of pure tin shipped to my house for $60. My plan is to test some tin pellets from the NOE .22 hunter pellet mold and the NOE .25 Wadcutter mold. I can't find much, anything really, on casting pellets or slugs in tin. Theoretically the BC will be higher, but tin seems to call for a faster twist rate than lead. My rifles shoot the H&N and Predator lead free pellets very well, so I'm expecting decent results if my casting skills are good enough.

My research suggested tin pellets need much the same twist rates but need to be made more accurately and will be less tolerant to any pellet barrel mismatching. Tin slugs will need faster twist rates for the same level of gyroscopic stability.

[Spacebus]

I got a two pound ingot of pure tin shipped to my house for $60. My plan is to test some tin pellets from the NOE .22 hunter pellet mold and the NOE .25 Wadcutter mold. I can't find much, anything really, on casting pellets or slugs in tin. Theoretically the BC will be higher, but tin seems to call for a faster twist rate than lead. My rifles shoot the H&N and Predator lead free pellets very well, so I'm expecting decent results if my casting skills are good enough.

My research suggested tin pellets need much the same twist rates but need to be made more accurately and will be less tolerant to any pellet barrel mismatching. Tin slugs will need faster twist rates for the same level of gyroscopic stability.

Thanks for the clarification! I also have a .252" and 460" "Airgun Slug" bbt molds from NOE I plan on casting in tin as well.

[Spacebus]

I got a two pound ingot of pure tin shipped to my house for $60. My plan is to test some tin pellets from the NOE .22 hunter pellet mold and the NOE .25 Wadcutter mold. I can't find much, anything really, on casting pellets or slugs in tin. Theoretically the BC will be higher, but tin seems to call for a faster twist rate than lead. My rifles shoot the H&N and Predator lead free pellets very well, so I'm expecting decent results if my casting skills are good enough.

I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what you find.

It might be a while until I get a chance to do any casting. The weather has been 100% in hospitable the last few weeks; huge storms, lots of wind, no sun, tons of snow, etc. You know how it is. It's even been too cold to go up into the attic to shoot! Some day I'll have a shed for casting and it won't be such a problem. Right now I use a wood fired "rocket stove" to heat up my iron casting pot and a Lyman dipper. A bit low tech but it works!

[sb327]

Fwiw, modern pewter drinking and eating vessels are lead free. Approximately 95% tin with some copper and antimony.

If they get bent (which they do easily), they can be had cheap at resale/flea markets.

Dave

[Spacebus]

Fwiw, modern pewter drinking and eating vessels are lead free. Approximately 95% tin with some copper and antimony.

If they get bent (which they do easily), they can be had cheap at resale/flea markets.

Dave

Pewter with antimony or copper is sometimes even more expensive than pure tin, and the antimony is toxic. I can easily remove tin from the surface of my ingot with my fingernails, perfect for making airgun projectiles!

[Greg_E]

Right now I use a wood fired "rocket stove" to heat up my iron casting pot and a Lyman dipper. A bit low tech but it works!

Ready for the apocalypse then, fewer things you'll need to learn when everything goes (worse) to H3LL.

[Spacebus]

Right now I use a wood fired "rocket stove" to heat up my iron casting pot and a Lyman dipper. A bit low tech but it works!

Ready for the apocalypse then, fewer things you'll need to learn when everything goes (worse) to H3LL.

Not so much ready for the apocalypse, just ready for the price of goods to adjust upwards when the price of energy adjusts to the "true" cost. I also don't have any outdoor power solutions short of hooking an inverter to my tractor or running a generator, which is expensive for casting ammo. I'm hoping to have a workshop setup in the next year or two that has maybe even a basic solar setup. Our energy costs in Maine keep going up, so off grid power gets cheaper.

[Greg_E]

Off topic, but you might see some larger incentive rebates for solar in the near future. If it's cheap enough I'll cover my entire roof. Dave at EEVblog (on Youtube) has done some really good videos on his solar stuff, learned a few things about how the old arrays were connected vs the new arrays, and why you want the newer array connections. With a search.

A shed workshop is also possible, buy lumber costs need to come down... Have you priced sheds lately? We looked all summer to try and get one and just could not (or would not) pay asking prices. A 10x12 or 10x14 (biggest we can place on our lot without building permits) was anywhere between $7000 and $10000 depending on if we wanted a decent loft for storing things like snow/summer tires. And that's not for my hobby workshop, just general storage to replace a smaller 10x10 shed from the 1960's. The cost is also holding up some repairs on the house... Not to get political but we are in a mess right now! Got a roof done on the initial upswing to stupid pricing so at least that's done and only cost an extra $2000 to $3000.

Back to casting... I wonder what a wood burning stove/heat could do for us? get's really cold out in a shed, need heat to work and if it could get hot enough to melt lead, well that's a win all over. I would be inclined to put a pellet stove in my workshop, otherwise it would need to be electric or propane (big bottles).

[Spacebus]

Off topic, but you might see some larger incentive rebates for solar in the near future. If it's cheap enough I'll cover my entire roof. Dave at EEVblog (on Youtube) has done some really good videos on his solar stuff, learned a few things about how the old arrays were connected vs the new arrays, and why you want the newer array connections. With a search.

A shed workshop is also possible, buy lumber costs need to come down... Have you priced sheds lately? We looked all summer to try and get one and just could not (or would not) pay asking prices. A 10x12 or 10x14 (biggest we can place on our lot without building permits) was anywhere between $7000 and $10000 depending on if we wanted a decent loft for storing things like snow/summer tires. And that's not for my hobby workshop, just general storage to replace a smaller 10x10 shed from the 1960's. The cost is also holding up some repairs on the house... Not to get political but we are in a mess right now! Got a roof done on the initial upswing to stupid pricing so at least that's done and only cost an extra $2000 to $3000.

Back to casting... I wonder what a wood burning stove/heat could do for us? get's really cold out in a shed, need heat to work and if it could get hot enough to melt lead, well that's a win all over. I would be inclined to put a pellet stove in my workshop, otherwise it would need to be electric or propane (big bottles).

I have a wood burning cookstove, free standing cast iron woodstove, an outdoor wood fired pizza oven, and the earlier mentioned rocket stove. The cookstove could definitely work for casting, but it's in my house, so a no-go. Most wood stoves that don't have a convective jacket can get hot enough for melting lead, at least the modern EPA stoves can. The older "smoke dragons" just aren't very efficient for this kind of thing. The problem comes from the stove being too hot to stand near. A cookstove has a "cold" side, the oven side, that is comfortable to stand near. My free standing cast iron wood stove could also do the job, but the sides get above 600f which is too hot to stand near for any amount of time, much less for casting.

There are small cookstoves made for boats, but they are pretty expensive. Would be a good option for a caster though, as the oven is the perfect size for powder coating. Just make sure you have a good range hood or other ventilation.

If the budget allows I'll definitely look for a cookstove for my planned shed, as they often times have a means to heat water built in. Long term I'm planning on a commercial grade kitchen structure to possibly sell food stuffs made on our homestead. That will definitely have a cookstove as I love cooking on ours. I hate using electric cook tops now, and the electric oven is even more rarely used. These days if it's too hot to fire up the wood cooker we use a countertop convection oven/air fryer/microwave.

I have a sawmill, so lumber costs are negligible for me, fasteners are far more expensive. Last I checked lumber was around $1.20/bdft and back in 2010 it was around $0.35/bdft. The mills were all closing at the old prices, but the current market price is totally unreasonable.